Was wondering about that too, the comprehensive data on Fellrnr's site is quite enlightening. What's strange is that DCR's written several times that he used the FR620 as his main GPS watch but I don't think he's ever complained about its accuracy. Lower expectations maybe?

Well, despite all the doubting Thomas's who thought I was trolling, we now know I was right!

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Nope. DCRainmaker addresses this in the Q&A section after his review of the FR620, you just have to search for it. And, after I went to fellrnr's site, I found much of his stuff to be, frankly, suspicious. I've run with GPS watches from the Garmin FR305, to the 310XT, to the Polar RC3, and now to the Suunto Ambit 2S, and I've never seen deviations like what he is posting, especially the track with the out and back where the track is wildly off. Not with any of the previous watches (I download every run and compare the GPS track to the roads I ran on; typically the watch is pretty much right on). I did have a Timex Run Trainer for a brief period that seemed to have some issues, but I found that if you gave it some time after it acquired the sats, it was quite accurate (I returned it because it was just too damn big to be a day to day watch).

Spot

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

The issues I've had with my 510 and 910 have ensured that there will be one extra 920 available in Kona should it be unwrapped and sold here. I've bought my last Garmin. But thats just me, others have great experiences with theirs and that's a good thing.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

How could Fellrnr's data be "suspicious", it's raw data with raw tracks and in the case of the FR620 with several devices and several firmware iterations. I for one have seen such deviations with the FR610 recently and other GPS devices in the past so I'm not that surprised. I never saw a good reason to upgrade to the FR620 from the FR610 so I haven't had to deal with its issues (or of the F2's) that have been mentioned anecdotally in many forum posts. What's nice about Fellrnr's thorough analysis is that it substantiates these issues, now to see whether Garmin have addressed them in the FR920.

I was in my LBS yesterday and the man I was chatting to a garmin rep in there and noticed he had a Garmin 930 with him. Looks cool and has some pretty neat features;

HRM on the watch itself, although you need the additional footpod to get the run metrics.
HRM on the swim, although the other swim metrics still suck.
Integrated Lactate testing like bsxinsight.
50 hour battery life
Excellent GPS accuracy and precision.
Wifi
5.1G/4G/3G
Automatic notification of the fact you missed the 16:45 cut-off time, the device also sends an email to a distribution group about how much you suck.
Massage feature. Place it anywhere on your body and it will vibrate giving an instant release to tried and sore muscles. (N.B this does drain the battery somewhat)

You saw it here first!

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On the internet, you can be anything you want. It is a pity so many people choose to be stupid.

Apologies for using yet another click link to a website but from a bit of web sleuthing I dug up some more pictures from Garmin Canada of all places - rather than reposting them all here they're on my blog.

As you guys are far more knowledgeable than I, what's a metronome going to do!?

http://tritriagain.uk/...in-forerunner-920xt/

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http://www.tritriagain.uk

"Suspicious" was a poor choice of words. I just wonder about his testing protocol, and whether or not he checked multiple watches, or just one. I'm also curious as to whether he starts running as soon as the watch says it has acquired the sats, and where the watch is when he acquires the sats. I've personally noticed that some watches, although they say they are ready to go, do better if you give them a little bit of time before starting. Also, as has been stated, DC Rainmaker hasn't seen the same thing, and he tests for accuracy as well. However, DC checks the accuracy over a variety of courses, not the same one over and over again. I'm also curious as to how he has the watches set...are they set to smart recording, or every second (he may answer this in the GPS testing protocol, which I haven't read). For example, his data that shows all the watches missing that one curve is what struck me as odd (and generated the "suspicious" comment), because I have never seen that before in any of the watches I have used.

ETA: I read a bit more closely, and fellrnr says he lets the watches sit for about 5 minutes after lock. I would be curious if that's inside or outside, as I think GPS devices that lock on inside are susceptible to multi-path.

Spot

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

It would be nice if some day there was a task group formed to delta force all of our GPS field testing efforts...

I had run for a while with the 910xt, Suunto Ambit 2S, and fenix2 (before the Fellrnr testing) to compare GPS accuracy. I found the 910 and the Suunto to be more accurate then the fenix2, but overall the fenix2 was acceptable. You need to see some the GPS tracks over in the Garmin 620 thread. Some are pretty awful, worse then anything I've seen in the fenix2 threads. Hopefully the Forerunner team has this worked out with the 920xt.

You, sir, are a genius! :) Brilliant!! :)

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- John
"Have courage, and be kind."

I'm sure I'll be flamed, but DC Rainmaker isn't an "impartial" reviewer anymore. He generates revenue from his partnership with Clevertraining. He may pay for his stuff, but he can afford stuff because we're buying it.

He's no doubt knowledgeable and thorough but his defense of the Garmin fenix 2 and the 620 by saying that they have the same frequency of user complaints doesn't pass the smell test.

I have yet to find better more in depth reviews then DC, I do find them do be impartial mostly impartial, he says if he likes things/features or does not guess that is not impartial i guess, but i want his thoughts impartial or not. Maybe if you think his reviews are not impartial enough you should try to do some reviews for us?

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

If it's loud enough, for running cadence most likely

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

sign me up and sell me two! In case the battery dies and I'm not done with my massage ;-)

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DFL > DNF > DNS

I completely disagree. Maybe what he's heard about complaints doesn't match with what you've heard or your own experiences, but getting an accurate accounting of complaints isn't what he's trying to do. He doesn't consolidate other people's feedback. He writes his own thorough, impartial reviews, based on his own experiences. With many of the products he reviews, I'm sure including the Fenix 2 and 620, he continues to use them in his own training.

For example, check out his new review of the Polar running watch. In the past, he's recommended Garmin because they've offered the best performance/features/price/etc, and the new Polar looks like it'll be his new recommendation for entry/mid-level running watch instead of the FR 220.

+ 1

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Surely his day job alone affords all kinds of nice things (except for IM training volume.) He's hardly a shill for any brand, as I'm sure Garmin will find out when the 920XT review comes out and scoffs at the color screen. (Just my guess, but I'd rate contrast/legibility over "color" any day.)

All I was doing was stating the obvious which is an indisputable fact. He makes money from the sale of sports technology products. He has a vested interest in Clevertraining selling more stuff. That is an indisputable fact. It doesn't affect me at all if you choose to live and die by the word of Ray.

However Clever Training sells products from all major vendors, so it really doesn't help him to push one product over another. If money was his main motive, then I'd think he'd push folks towards Suunto and more expensive products. Based on his reviews (especially the Edge 1000) I'd say this isn't the case.

Do you realize how much effort goes into maintaining a steady rate of reviews on top of all the other informational posts? How much it costs to travel to Interbike, ANT+ Symposium, etc...? How much web hosting costs for a site with his traffic volume? I'm willing to bet he breaks even when it's all said and done. He still has a day job after all...

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

I'm not sure how he isn't impartial. He regularly bags out products and only receives money from commissioned sales on all products. He even goes to the lengths of buying all the products post review and all ads don't relate to products he reviews. I think you are being pretty harsh saying he isn't impartial.

Clevertraining sell every brand he reviews though so by all accounts he continues to have to be impartial.... i like his reviews, he says what's good and what's bad about everything. He seems to use Garmin mostly for his own runs/rides etc which is his preference, or maybe because they're usually better ;)

I'm sure he'll have a 920xt to play with soon and will let us all know his views!

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http://www.tritriagain.uk

No, you made an accusation of review bias for monetary gain.Except that you chose to "expose" him as an impartial reviewer. Logically the claim doesn't make any sense, either, as Ray gets an affiliate cut regardless of the model or brand of gear you buy through Clever Training or Amazon.

I would much rather have someone like DC Rainmaker keep reviewing tri / bike gear than any of the many click-bait wanna-bes out there. So far his site is the closest thing we have to Consumer Reports.

is it official? https://buy.garmin.com/...20xt/prod137024.html