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GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat
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Offline I was having some discussions with a few of the guys who have been around sport endurance sport for a long time at a really high level. We have had multiple threads here about KQer key workouts, when and how to schedule rest weeks and so on.

My view based on observing endurance athletes at a high and rec level for a really long time is that this stuff really is not that hard if you want to get moderately fast. Just get out the door. I can't remember if it was Gordo or Fleck who said, JFT = Just F&^*ing Train.

A number of years ago when Eric Reid and I both qualified for Kona, we were sharing a hotel at 70.3 world's and actually we were not sharing our plans or workouts. The discussion was focused on, "how do you structure your life to get ~2 hours of training per day, every day, all week all year" and still get rest and recovery and juggle work and family. Eric was an Army guy who needed to be at work at some crazy early hour like 7 am. I could related from my days as a serviceman. But his plan was to just get up early every day and get 75-90 min of whatever training he could in the morning and then 30-45 min "second workout" at lunch. Mine was more relaxed with a teenager at home and working tech. I could start as late as 9:30, train as long as I wanted at lunch and then just work until I had to, but I kept evenings exlusively for family time or coaching youth sport. Inside our 2 hours per day both of us were modulating training intensities in all sports, sometimes going harder sometimes going easier as life stresses and recovery would permit keeping in mind upcoming A/B/C races. My biggest challenge was 2x per month biz travel (26-32 weeks per year to west coast, Asia and Europe), but I had a routine of every morning regardless of time zone of 5:30 wake up and 90 min of running and weights and evening after work no matter how tired or how big the business dinner was, 45 min of hotel gym bike or hotel 10m pool or hotel weights.....whatever they had....or a second run. No matter how much jet lag, it was going to happen. In bed by 10 pm at the latest no matter how jetlagged and lying in bed 10-5:30 even if wide awake. Weekends to catch up on sleep and biking and pool time when back at home.

I would say the number 1 habit of highly successful endurance athletes is that they somehow magically make the training happen. As I look back at my most successful athletes especially those that KQ'd, 70.3 WCQ'd or Boston PB's, the ones that just got out consistently were race day heros, whether they hit today's power number target, track times, or pool times or not. And the ones who did that while getting enough sleep and keeping or getting body composition low and doing nothing stupid to get injured, they really rocked it. All those zones and splits and micro workout details, were great to keep them motivated.....but the big 50000 ft view is what made them fast.....not having to stop and walk in the middle of a hill because they are lurching out of Zone 1 and now they have to walk because they might totally blow their entire 4 week training block (can someone shoot the coaches that are prescribing that stuff?)

I need Fleck to get over here and explain who him and his buddies were racing 9:0x IMs by just getting out the door and hammering or just getting out the door and going easy....but the main thing is they were just getting out the door....all the time!
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Feb 25, 17 16:32
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Well said, Dev. Consistency is king. Day, week, month, year, & years - getting up and out (or in) virtually every day wins out over a few bigger months leading up to a race.

I'm going into my 8th year of doing tris and I finally feel that I'm beginning to reap the benefits of consistent training year round. The bigger sessions leading to key races are important, but the 'off season,' when some folks back of considerably, is when that consistent training needs to be maintained.

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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Good macro view post Dev. I'm not sure about the 6% bf though!

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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Very motivating.
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Offline I was having some discussions with a few of the guys who have been around sport endurance sport for a long time at a really high level. We have had multiple threads here about KQer key workouts, when and how to schedule rest weeks and so on.


My view based on observing endurance athletes at a high and rec level for a really long time is that this stuff really is not that hard if you want to get moderately fast. Just get out the door. I can't remember if it was Gordo or Fleck who said, JFT = Just F&^*ing Train.

I need Fleck to get over here and explain who him and his buddies were racing 9:0x IMs by just getting out the door and hammering or just getting out the door and going easy....but the main thing is they were just getting out the door....all the time!


I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous "Time crunched cyclists" etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks.... same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days...

Somebody should expose HIIT for what it is, and stop blowing smoke up untrained beginners asses and promise them god know what in 8 weeks.

Books like Time Crunched Cyclists causes more injuries than car accidents, I would even say more bad than good.

There is a lot of people starting in the sport, and books like time crunched cyclists are the most appealing, talking about Cyclocross worlds after 8 weeks of training...

Carmichael should be hang by the balls upside down....



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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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This is about as accurate as it gets..I'm ~20, in engineering school..bottom line is that even when the workload is obscene with exams + problem sets + classes in general, I always find time to train for ~1:45-2hr per day. If that means running at 10:30pm after an exam so be it!

Started the 2hr per day program when I was 17, and have committed to being consistent if nothing else!

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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I can't take credit for this and won't, but so true non the less. The saying went something like this:
"Triathlon is actually a winter sport that is raced in the summer." The top triathletes do it day in and day out, day after day after day. Most do it with structure, coached or not. Skipping a beautiful spring day ride outside to sit on the trainer in the basement for a purposeful, structured, and meaningful ride is hard to do, but I believe, is what's needed to build the type of performance needed to compete at a high level. Do that type of thing over and over again and "racing" becomes real.
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Bonesbrigade wrote:
Good macro view post Dev. I'm not sure about the 6% bf though!

I think I am ballooned out near 8-10% with my 1200 km 2016 swim program....the built in layer of bioprene (TM) has all around positive attributes in the pool as it keeps you warm and makes you faster....not great for running but running was basically a no go in 2016.
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [abrown] [ In reply to ]
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abrown wrote:
This is about as accurate as it gets..I'm ~20, in engineering school..bottom line is that even when the workload is obscene with exams + problem sets + classes in general, I always find time to train for ~1:45-2hr per day. If that means running at 10:30pm after an exam so be it!

Started the 2hr per day program when I was 17, and have committed to being consistent if nothing else!

Keep it up. I did the 2 hour per day program all through my engineering undegrad, biz school and engineering Masters degree. It can be done (that was between 1983-1994 time frame around school and nite school....it can be done if you are focused). I would actually read up on my formula sheets and memorize them during 45 min runs at nite....then shower and sleep and when I would wake up in the morning, they were locked into my brain
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Nice post. I think this really is key to success in just about anything. The thread about key workouts to KQ I think should really be summed up in "stay consistent for years without injury and with a little plan and you will find success". There are some "key" workouts during a build/peak phase but the more important thing is to be consistent and find a way to get something done every day, day in day out, no matter the weather or other factors (assuming you are not neglecting anything else in life).

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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [jrielley] [ In reply to ]
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jrielley wrote:
Nice post. I think this really is key to success in just about anything. The thread about key workouts to KQ I think should really be summed up in "stay consistent for years without injury and with a little plan and you will find success". There are some "key" workouts during a build/peak phase but the more important thing is to be consistent and find a way to get something done every day, day in day out, no matter the weather or other factors (assuming you are not neglecting anything else in life).

At a high level, I would target 2 key workouts a week. Wed AM was a 90K ride starting at 5:15 am with the middle 45K being a group hammerfest in the local hills. It really lifted my threshold. This workout (when I was in town was non negotiable). The other key workout was a Saturday or Sunday 3.5-4 hour ride. Basically half IM race effort in the TT followed by a hard 30 min transition run. All my running was just filler. If I felt I could go harder or longer i just would, but I was more worried about overall hours of running per week not intensity. Target 5-7 hours. I never paid much attention to swimming and it showed and I generally underperformed at it. When I get back to tris, I will be flipping my previous focus on running to swimming the outcome of which will be far higher aggregate intensity because you can in the pool but you can't on the run.
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
abrown wrote:
This is about as accurate as it gets..I'm ~20, in engineering school..bottom line is that even when the workload is obscene with exams + problem sets + classes in general, I always find time to train for ~1:45-2hr per day. If that means running at 10:30pm after an exam so be it!

Started the 2hr per day program when I was 17, and have committed to being consistent if nothing else!


Keep it up. I did the 2 hour per day program all through my engineering undegrad, biz school and engineering Masters degree. It can be done (that was between 1983-1994 time frame around school and nite school....it can be done if you are focused). I would actually read up on my formula sheets and memorize them during 45 min runs at nite....then shower and sleep and when I would wake up in the morning, they were locked into my brain

Been there! In today's digital age I spend a lot of time on the bike and while running with audiobooks of my textbooks and recordings of lectures playing in my headphones. Every bit helps!

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Offline I was having some discussions with a few of the guys who have been around sport endurance sport for a long time at a really high level. We have had multiple threads here about KQer key workouts, when and how to schedule rest weeks and so on.


My view based on observing endurance athletes at a high and rec level for a really long time is that this stuff really is not that hard if you want to get moderately fast. Just get out the door. I can't remember if it was Gordo or Fleck who said, JFT = Just F&^*ing Train.

I need Fleck to get over here and explain who him and his buddies were racing 9:0x IMs by just getting out the door and hammering or just getting out the door and going easy....but the main thing is they were just getting out the door....all the time!


I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous "Time crunched cyclists" etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks.... same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days...

Somebody should expose HIIT for what it is, and stop blowing smoke up untrained beginners asses and promise them god know what in 8 weeks.

Books like Time Crunched Cyclists causes more injuries than car accidents, I would even say more bad than good.

There is a lot of people starting in the sport, and books like time crunched cyclists are the most appealing, talking about Cyclocross worlds after 8 weeks of training...

Carmichael should be hang by the balls upside down....




That's like when Boardman said he was training 8 hours per week to break his first 54 kph World Hour Record. Basically all of it was a 98-110% FTP on the track....the detail that is left out is he spent the entire spring and summer road racing in Europe include the TdF, so that 8 hrs per week is a bit out of context.
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Ktri] [ In reply to ]
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I live by this motto.

Skipped the 6 mile beer run on Wednesday to get a structured 100 min run on the treadmill in my basement by myself.

Thanks for the quote.
Last edited by: TriathlonJoe: Feb 24, 17 7:40
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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years ago i was training with a group of really solid runners at the university of cape town. i was telling them that i was focusing more on shorter-course stuff at the moment, since i was 'a bit young' for the marathon, and that i'd probably be in a better place to run fast marathons into my 30s/40s.

the coach said, flat out, "no. you'll run your best marathon when you have the most time to train, period."

and it's true that i've been at my fastest when i've also been at my most consistent, even 'forcing' hidden workouts through things like commuting by bike.

but alas . . .

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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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This is SO DEAD ON - I'm 35 year into triathlon (51 yo) - and it all comes down to........

Relentless consistency
Relentless sleep
Relentless watching weight

Added to this.....

ability to schedule and follow
ability to make good choices/sacrafices
not going to hard, to fast, to soon
loose the gadgets a lot of the time
find friends
and make it a true lifestyle

It not that hard people - 2-3 hours out of my day is easy to find even with 3 kids, a fairly big job and some other committments - its only difficult to do if YOU make it so


http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous "Time crunched cyclists" etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks.... same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days...
So you are saying I will improve my 40K TT time just by riding 1-2 hours a day at L1/L2 without doing any type of HIIT, such as threshold or VO2 max intervals?
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Great post! Do something every day, enjoy the lifestyle.

As I get older and come across the occasional setback, I just try to adjust as needed and keep plugging away. I was reading some Jack LaLane quotes the other day and one thing that repeatedly came up in the stuff I read about him was that he did 2 hours per day every morning till he died at 96 years old. He was incredibly fit and had a high quality of life the whole way. Very inspirational!
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [abrown] [ In reply to ]
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I'm also an engineering student, and I have time to do my training time, but the sleep thing is hard for me. Do you manage to get 8 hours a night?
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous "Time crunched cyclists" etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks.... same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days...

So you are saying I will improve my 40K TT time just by riding 1-2 hours a day at L1/L2 without doing any type of HIIT, such as threshold or VO2 max intervals?

I don't think anyone was saying to not do high intensity. I think the discussion was high intensity and low volume only. Some high intensity is obviously needed coupled with reasonable volume, but to your point, yes you can actually raise your FTP by doing nothing but RAAM type pace at RAAM type volume. But that's a boatload of low volume to get to to more or less the same place as moderate volume with some intensity.
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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imswimmer328 wrote:
I'm also an engineering student, and I have time to do my training time, but the sleep thing is hard for me. Do you manage to get 8 hours a night?

I get ~7hrs/night. Below 7 and I notice negative impacts on my ability to focus in school and put out good workouts. I usually sleep ~11:30-6:30. Some days it's 11-7, others its 12-6, and if I am behind one night I try to make a point of catching up! I can get by on 5-6 for about a week, but then I use the weekend to catch up on sleep. I try to get at least 8hrs on weekend nights.

Never underestimate the power of the 20min nap!

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [abrown] [ In reply to ]
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abrown wrote:
imswimmer328 wrote:
I'm also an engineering student, and I have time to do my training time, but the sleep thing is hard for me. Do you manage to get 8 hours a night?


I get ~7hrs/night. Below 7 and I notice negative impacts on my ability to focus in school and put out good workouts. I usually sleep ~11:30-6:30. Some days it's 11-7, others its 12-6, and if I am behind one night I try to make a point of catching up! I can get by on 5-6 for about a week, but then I use the weekend to catch up on sleep. I try to get at least 8hrs on weekend nights.

Never underestimate the power of the 20min nap!

Keep up the 56 hours per week sleep target especially in Engineering school. Only stupid or totally disorganized guys sacrifice sleep before an exam or go to class sleep deprived and do stupid things like all nighter. There is no point going to class sleep deprived. I'd rather skip a class to take a 45 min snooze and work with a buddy to get the key notes and reciprocate with him for another class so that he can skip and do something else. Whatever it takes. Work out a system so you get your sleep in. Your awake time becomes 2-5X more valuable. As an athlete you get to see the canary in the coalmine in terms of how low sleep affects your workouts, but it's also affecting your ability to do triple integrals with trig functions or Bessel functions. You can't cheat sleep without cheating yourself....it's actually why I put it in the title of this thread....for the athletes that I coach, they have to submit their weekly totals. Now I get it that not all sleep is the same, but just give me the total when you are lying down and resting in bed....and hit 56.
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Reddy] [ In reply to ]
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Reddy wrote:
This is SO DEAD ON - I'm 35 year into triathlon (51 yo) - and it all comes down to........

Relentless consistency
Relentless sleep
Relentless watching weight

Added to this.....

ability to schedule and follow
ability to make good choices/sacrafices
not going to hard, to fast, to soon
loose the gadgets a lot of the time
find friends
and make it a true lifestyle

It not that hard people - 2-3 hours out of my day is easy to find even with 3 kids, a fairly big job and some other committments - its only difficult to do if YOU make it so

Hey, I just looked at my training for today. So far 36 minute jog and 55 minute swim. I'm going to need to do something after dinner to hit my 2 hour quota or I will need to put all my gear on ebay for digressing from the OP advice on this thread. Sounds like 15 min spin bike and 15 min of weights is needed before bed time!
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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It's simply not true that 56 hours is the magic number for everyone - or even close to it. Everyone is different. Some need more, some need less and some deprive themselves and get less.

I'd venture to say that as far back as I can remember (46 years now) my weekly sleep totals have been between 40-45 hours per week. You know me and I think you'd agree that I've done pretty well for myself considering how low my number is.
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Re: GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat [Reddy] [ In reply to ]
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Reddy wrote:
This is SO DEAD ON - I'm 35 year into triathlon (51 yo) - and it all comes down to........

Relentless consistency
Relentless sleep
Relentless watching weight

Added to this.....

ability to schedule and follow
ability to make good choices/sacrafices
not going to hard, to fast, to soon
loose the gadgets a lot of the time
find friends
and make it a true lifestyle

It not that hard people - 2-3 hours out of my day is easy to find even with 3 kids, a fairly big job and some other committments - its only difficult to do if YOU make it so

^^^^
This X's 1000

And I would add having a truly supportive significant other into the equation.

Chronic guilt is not compatible with long term success.


"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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