Fraud on Ebay

Mar 26, 03 1:16

Post #1 of 23 (6001 views)

There was just a thread on rec.bicycles.marketplace about fraud in Ebay. I post my reply below to warn you:

Yesterday I saw 3 suspicious Cervelos on ebay. The description was always only one line in bad english and the title always mentioned a Cervelo bike but not which type. Once the picture even showed a Giant bicycle but the title mentioned a Cervelo.
The seller was always located in Canada and had no reviews (singed up only on 23.March).
Today I wanted to mail the bidder and warn them. But when I reloaded the pages this three items were removed. Ebay seems to do something about this frauds.

Felix

Harold Heyermans wrote:

> I have seen aton of these and the sellers have no feed back either.
> There listings are private as well. I contacted the one called
> LORENABIKE and she is in Spain. The add said she was in Toronto
> Canada. The original e-mail and reply is below.
>
> Hi,
> I can deliver you a bike 54 cm. size but i`m located in Spain and you
> can not pick it up .
> I can shipp it to you using the UPS service.
>
> Lorenabike
>
> I am interested in the Cannondale bike.
> I take it from your add you have many sizes available, I am currently
> looking for a size 54.
> I live in the Hamilton Area and would be willing to pick it up
>
> Regards
> Harold
>
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:39:30 -0500, "Mike Davis"
> <msdremax@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>Be careful on Ebay. There have been a number of sellers lately offering
>>high end Cannondales and other brands at ridiculously low prices. They use
>>poor English in their text and usually use factory web site pictures and
>>text and offer any size you need. The latest have shown addresses in the
>>U.S. but their country of registration is not USA. If it sounds too good to
>>be true, it's probably a scam.
>>
>>Mike Davis

Felix

http://www.weilenmann.ch.vu

Re: Fraud on Ebay [felix__w] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 3:09

Post #2 of 23 (5981 views)

If I can't see it, touch it, or have a good return policy, I won't even consider buying it. Ebay can net some good deal, but some scam artists tend to really like ebay, which I why I generally stay away.

Re: Fraud on Ebay [bunnyman] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 5:03

Post #3 of 23 (5931 views)

My best advice at this point after many ebay sales and purchases is that you should engage the seller NUMEROUS times via email prior to even bidding once. Ask pointed questions about the item that the general scam artist isn't likely to know or take the time to try and answer. Although some argue with the ethics of so-called "sniper" bidding, the reality is that you only have to bid once at the end as high bidder to win the item. Ask the questions, establish yourself with the seller. If you pay attention, you'll quickly find the scammers. Ask the guy selling the Cervelo questions like "what groupo is on the bike?" or "What length are the crankarms?" Scammers aren't likely to know what a groupo is or the difference between DA and Ultegra, or where to find the crankarm measurement.

Just a few quick suggestions. Other than that, stick to the ebay online shops. You won't find the killer bike deals, but you can get things like tires and tubes cheaper than anywhere else.

Re: Fraud on Ebay [felix__w] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 8:15

Post #4 of 23 (5805 views)

There's a lot of discussion on RoadBike Review about how to spot these. No feedback sellers are a dead giveaway, though everyone has to start somewhere. Stock photos from manufacturers websites are common amoungst these fraud postings, as are vague (and usually poorly written) descriptions. Foreign sellers are often the case (or even domestic location listings along with a foreign e-mail address).

Things you can do to avoid these:
* E-mail the seller and ask for the serial number of the bike (or frame), then verify the validity of that serial number with the manufacturer.
* Ask for specific angle photos of the bike, with a hand or daily newspaper in the photo.
* Tell the seller you have a friend in the area that can pick up the bike (usually they say they'll send the bike once they receive payment, which is a total giveaway of fraud). See if you even get a response from this.

There were a few other strategies that get bandied about, but these are some of the core strategies.

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https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Re: Fraud on Ebay [felix__w] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 8:24

Post #5 of 23 (5790 views)

This is a good and timely post. E-bay is a FANTASTIC vehicle for trade but is subject to all the other rules of human interaction: A small segment of the population are lying pricks. Most people are good and honest. We sell a lot of used equipment on E-bay from our store and always practice full disclosure in our detailed descriptions and feature good photos of the actual product at auction. If the items you are interested in bidding on don't match these criteria and you feel the least bit uneasy- don't bid. Additionally, we have had three bikes in the last six months brought to our store for service by people who purchased them on e-bay. All three were nice bikes. Two did not even come close to fitting and (I am not making this up) all three had cracked frames. One (a Trek, which speaks very well of Trek's excellent warranty service) was warrantied for the guy- so he made out and got a new bike. The short story: It says it right on e-bay's site; Let the buyer beware. And beware you should.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: Fraud on Ebay [felix__w] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 8:25

Post #6 of 23 (5789 views)

i bought a cervelo on ebay and was really wary, but got it for about $1200 less than it would have retailed for and it was almost new. if anybody is going to make a big purchase on ebay, don't do it unless the seller is comfortable using and escrow service. it works like this: buyer sends money to service, seller receives notification from service that they have the money and ships the item, buyer gets item, has a previously agreed-upon amount of time to be sure that the item is what was expected, buyer tells service that the item is good and they release the money to the seller. this way, it is really difficult for anybody to screw anybody else. it does cost a bit, but when buying something as expensive as a decent bike, i won't take risks. that said, the buyer i bought from was happy to use the escrow because she felt safer too and she even split the cost with me. if you go to google and search for "escrow service" you'll find a bunch of them.

Re: Fraud on Ebay [felix__w] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 8:42

Post #7 of 23 (5756 views)

Here's a thread to a recent article I found on the web.

http://www.canada.com/...3e-a02c-38528ea4fa77

Personally, I've made more than a dozen purchases from Ebay - all of them were small (< $400US)purchases and turned out to be good transactions (although my son was able to find a bad one).

Who was it that said? "There's a sucker born every minute"

Caveat emptor.

put the mettle to the pedal

Re: Fraud on Ebay [brettc] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 9:30

Post #8 of 23 (5703 views)

I always ask for a phone number in an email on ebay in case I have questions. If you use paypal DO NOT use your checking account as the primary account. Instead use a credit card, not a debit card, as the primary account. If the merchandise arrives damaged contact the seller. If you use a credit card you can always have the charges reversed through the credit card company if something bad happens or if the merchandise gets "lost in the mail". Before you bid come up with a price and stick with it. I've seen actuions where used merchandise goes for $5 less than the same item new in my LBS.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Re: Fraud on Ebay [desert dude] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 9:51

Post #9 of 23 (5679 views)

I recently saw someone selling new 2002 Cervelo P3's on Ebay. I emailed him and said he had several sizes available and I could buy one for $2,000 USD if I western union the $ to him. He was registered in Austria, but was in the UK. After a couple of emails he said I could use western union like a escrow service as another poster described. I did not pursue any farther...it just seemed to good to be true. In which case it probably is a scam. The highest bidder was just over $2k on the actual auction. I wonder if he got his bike?

Re: Fraud on Ebay [brettc] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 10:03

Post #10 of 23 (5662 views)

In Reply To:

Who was it that said? "There's a sucker born every minute"

Caveat emptor.

That was P.T. Barnum. And for a dollar, I'll show you the egress...

Re: Fraud on Ebay [brider] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 10:57

Post #11 of 23 (5623 views)

Quote:

usually they say they'll send the bike once they receive payment, which is a total giveaway of fraud.

Is this referring specifically to instances where you offer to pick the bike up? Otherwise this isn't a valid statement. I never send the buyer the item without having received payment. In fact, if it is a personal check, I wait until it clears the bank. There are fraudulent buyers too.

Re: Fraud on Ebay [felix__w] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 11:47

Post #12 of 23 (5592 views)

http://www.tri-specialties.com/articles/auctions.htm

Read this it will put to light a little of what has happened in the past

Re: Fraud on Ebay [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 13:43

Post #13 of 23 (5523 views)

I'm very leery of Ebay, and have very limited experience with it (and none bike related), so any real advice I could give would have utterly no real backing. Best thing I can say is to go to RoadBikeReview and cruise through the "General" discussion board. Several threads are active today about Ebay scams.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Re: Fraud on Ebay [felix__w] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 14:02

Post #14 of 23 (5509 views)

I've purchased about 110 items on Ebay. Generally, the experience has been a largely positive one. However, I always email the seller before I bid very high on an expensive item, e.g. a wheel. If a seller doesn't email me back he doesn't get a bid.

I've had 4 bad experiences on Ebay, including a Power-Tap wheel that was 6 months old and was D.O.A. In that instance I'm not positive the Seller sent me defective merchandise. With electronics you never know when that stuff is going to fail, or why. So, I've given him the benefit of the doubt and chalked it up to bad luck. However, I've saved so much money on Ebay I have no regrets.

By the way, Graber's repair prices are very reasonable and they are quite prompt. Their product is first rate and I'd highly recommend the Power-Tap for serious training. (N.B.-Uh, I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek inasmuch at my age I'm lucky to hold 200 watts for 15 minutes!) Ditto for my Computrainer, which is a life-saver and a whole jar full of giggles to have around. :)

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Re: Fraud on Ebay [felix__w] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 14:50

Post #15 of 23 (5480 views)

There's a another example of this playing out on eBay as we speak (well, write, technically). Here's an auction for a Litespeed Siena; the auction closes in a couple of hours:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7298&item=3600091721&rd=1

And here's another Siena auction that just started up:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3601111945&category=7298

Same bike, same photos, same description, everything -- from a seller with no feedback, who is somehow in both England and Canada, whose eBay account opened today. Interestingly, the first Siena auction pretty much fits that description as well; maybe they're both fraudulent (although I corresponded with the guy selling the first one, and he seems legit).

Yep, you gotta be careful. (And yes, I reported the whole thing to eBay.)

Steve

Re: Fraud on Ebay [snichols] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 15:26

Post #16 of 23 (5457 views)

If you look at those two auctions now - you will see that the same bike (same pic anyway) is for sale by 2 different sellers from 2 different countries. hmmmm which one should I bid on?

put the mettle to the pedal

Re: Fraud on Ebay [snichols] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 19:01

Post #17 of 23 (5397 views)

Notice that the only people crazy enough to bid on $2000 items offered by someone new with a rating of 0 also are new with 0 ratings.

I have bought and sold 100's of items on eBay and found most of them went really well. I am rarely disappointed when dealing with people with large positive ratings and no legitimate negatives.

I have received a counterfeit item 3 times. Twice I sent it back for refund or replacement. Both these guys were great when I provided them proof that the coins were counterfeit. I think neither of then realized the items weren't authentic.

The third was a "6,000 year old" artefact I bought out of China for about $5. It was a great deal on a replica and was so obviously a fake given its condition and that it was out of China. This guy too was great to deal with. I was surprised to actually receive the item in just a couple weeks.

Look pedals are far cheaper on eBay than they are locally. For almost everything else, I have found the local bike shops cheaper (with the discounts offered to regular customers)

Re: Fraud on Ebay [Brent F] [ In reply to ]

Mar 26, 03 20:16

Post #18 of 23 (5371 views)

I always check out the seller, their rating, and how many other HIGH end items they happen to have on auction at the same time. If they have a lot of high end stuff ending around the same time on the same day, stay away. They will end all the auctions and get payment, and disappear. I've busted a few on ebay. Ebay will not help you. If you loose more than $100 you are covered for the amount over. But I contacted ebay about a scam artist and they said there was nothing they could do. He screwed about 20 people before they finally cancelled his account. All he needed to do at that point was change emails and set up another account. Be careful.

Olen

Re: Fraud on Ebay [muscle.boy] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 03 9:13

Post #19 of 23 (5278 views)

http://cgi6.ebay.ca/...p;sort=3&rows=25

what do you think about this guy, hes got somewhere in the neighbourhood of 30 bikes on there!!! With zero feedback, wow...interesting.

-kevin

"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

Re: Fraud on Ebay [Kevin_Queens] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 03 10:06

Post #20 of 23 (5245 views)

Very sketchy for sure. Too many bikes, all stock photos, Canadian seller. I looked at many sets of Zipp 303 and 404s on eBay. Ended up buying a new/old stock set from my LTS (local tri shop) for perhaps 50-75 bucks more than I would have paid on eBay....and feel much better about the purchase. Only thing I'll buy on eBay are parts, from persons or dealers with a track record. Most of the time bid prices get too high anyway.

Re: Fraud on Ebay [Kevin_Queens] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 03 10:33

Post #21 of 23 (5227 views)

all items end on the same day. I also stay away from anyone not using REAL pictures. I email sellers and ask for pictures/more pictures and ask how they came upon the item they are selling and why are they selling. I've been on ebay for 6 years (yokilla) and got screwed once for $24. I've sold wheelsets, Auto Tires, computers, monitors, lots of things on ebay.

Olen

Re: Fraud on Ebay [Kevin_Queens] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 03 11:13

Post #22 of 23 (5205 views)

...and where exactly is valcea, canada anyway? i'm from ontario and have never heard of it (although that doesn't mean much). this place was not listed in my road atlas and searches on yahoo and google also turned up no such place.

____________________________________________________________
"I'm happy when life's good,
and when it's bad I cry.
I've got values but I don't know how or why."
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Re: Fraud on Ebay [sydnrusty] [ In reply to ]

Mar 27, 03 11:39

Post #23 of 23 (5193 views)

also notice the lack of reserve prices.

i feel really sorry for the guys who have bid on those items already :(

-kevin

"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

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