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Frame advice for wife
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So it turns out that my wife is also starting to get hooked to road racing and triathlons. While the road bike is sorted, we wanted to pick up an tri bike for her - ideally, one where the frameset has the same aero specs across the range, and where we can upgrade the parts later, if she wants.

Does anyone know which brands make frames which are more or less the same across the product lines in terms of aerodynamics and integration options (it is ok if the lower end frames are a bit heavier)?

I havent bought a new bike since 2013 (which i plan to fix by the end of this year), and am very out of touch with gear.

TIA.


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Those who are slower than me suck.
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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fit always comes first. select a group of bikes or frames that might fit her, then pick the one the meets the most of your requirements (budget, aero, integration etc.)
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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guadzilla wrote:
Does anyone know which brands make frames which are more or less the same across the product lines in terms of aerodynamics and integration options (it is ok if the lower end frames are a bit heavier)?
By this statement, are you asking which bikes have the same shape from cheapest to most expensive (but maybe different carbon & carbon layups between models)?

If so, a few of the quick ones that come to mind are the Felt IA, Trek Speed Concept, and Specialized Shiv.
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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You can upgrade parts on any bike.
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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As others have said - get a fit first.

That being said, my wife just got a Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0. It’s a pretty smoking bike for $2500. Great stock components.

We already upgraded to Di2, which was super easy. I think it’s a great frame to upgrade with as needed/wanted. Or just leave stock and ride the hell out of it and it’ll be a great bike.
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Re: Frame advice for wife [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
guadzilla wrote:
Does anyone know which brands make frames which are more or less the same across the product lines in terms of aerodynamics and integration options (it is ok if the lower end frames are a bit heavier)?
By this statement, are you asking which bikes have the same shape from cheapest to most expensive (but maybe different carbon & carbon layups between models)?

If so, a few of the quick ones that come to mind are the Felt IA, Trek Speed Concept, and Specialized Shiv.

Yes, that is indeed what i was asking - thanks for that info (and for phrasing it a lot more coherently than i did earlier :)). If anyone knows of any other options, please let me know as well.

Appreciate the advice from others as well - yes, i am aware of the importance of fit, etc. That part isnt getting ignored, i am just trying to put together a shortlist of preferred bike options to go over, in parallel with the fit.


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Those who are slower than me suck.
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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"Does anyone know which brands make frames which are more or less the same across the product lines in terms of aerodynamics and integration options (it is ok if the lower end frames are a bit heavier)?"


Maybe I'm dumb, but why are you asking that question?
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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In general, only the big, high-volume brands will offer this. So, that immediately limits the field. The mid-volume and boutique brands tend to just have one version, typically with mid-grade or fancy-grade carbon, so the starting price is much higher than say a Felt IA16 or Specialized Shiv.

I thought of another... Giant with their Trinity and Trinity Pro models. (Pro has the uppity carbon.)
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Re: Frame advice for wife [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
In general, only the big, high-volume brands will offer this. So, that immediately limits the field. The mid-volume and boutique brands tend to just have one version, typically with mid-grade or fancy-grade carbon, so the starting price is much higher than say a Felt IA16 or Specialized Shiv.

I thought of another... Giant with their Trinity and Trinity Pro models. (Pro has the uppity carbon.)

Super, thanks! Added to the list to investigate as well.


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Those who are slower than me suck.
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Re: Frame advice for wife [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Maybe I'm dumb, but why are you asking that question?

Lets her get something relatively affordable for now, but which has a more upside for upgrades, if she wants.

(This is obviously not going to be the ONLY purchase criteria - just one area where i wanted to figure out what the options are).


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Those who are slower than me suck.
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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Are you saying that you might want to upgrade the frame in the future?
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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just buy whatever she likes / can afford / fits. Anything can be upgraded in the future.

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Re: Frame advice for wife [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Are you saying that you might want to upgrade the frame in the future?

Might want to upgrade the components, keep the frame.


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Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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The frame has almost nothing to do with upgrading components.
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Re: Frame advice for wife [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
The frame has almost nothing to do with upgrading components.


Great. After 10 years and 11 bikes owned, as well assembling and wrenching my own bikes, I am glad to have learned this.

Now, going forwards, can we assume that i am not entirely clueless, and perhaps keep this focused on my actual question, please?


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Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
Last edited by: guadzilla: Oct 11, 19 13:02
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Re: Frame advice for wife [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
just buy whatever she likes / can afford / fits. Anything can be upgraded in the future.

Sure - fit is going to drive the purchase. But the budget is fairly flexible, so all else being equal, she'd rather get something where the components can be upgraded if she gets competitive about her timing. Like i said earlier, this isnt the only factor driving the purchase - it is just one aspect.


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Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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I am really confused!

What is your actual question?
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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I assume you want a basic bike with a good aero frame that's easy to live with, that you may upgrade? Sensible upgrades would be wheels, cockpit, electronic shifting.

I like the QR PR3 if you can get a good deal on one. 68mm BB that you can turn into a BSA narrow-Q crank setup if you wish. Good hidden rear brake. No proprietary integrated BS.

Kinda like this one too for the money. $2200 with aero wheels. https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...5-2019/rp-prod173145
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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guadzilla wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
just buy whatever she likes / can afford / fits. Anything can be upgraded in the future.

Sure - fit is going to drive the purchase. But the budget is fairly flexible, so all else being equal, she'd rather get something where the components can be upgraded if she gets competitive about her timing. Like i said earlier, this isnt the only factor driving the purchase - it is just one aspect.

Any bike can be upgraded, so that’s why we aren’t quite following what your actual question is.

I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that what you want to know is which companies trickle down their top end frame molds to the mid and lower tier. I’d argue that isn’t a particularly useful question, but I guess if you want to know that, the list is pretty short.

Trek
Can’t think of any others that are identical

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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty sure the question is this:

Most companies’ offerings have different frames as you move up the product line. I.e., cervelo’s most aero frame might be a p5 that is only really available with Ultegra di2 and up (or whatever). They make a 105 bike, but only in a (however minorly) less aero P2 frame (I know they revamped their line but it’s just an example).

So it comes down to this: which bikes come with the best FRAME for the money, such that one might buy a $2,500 105 bike that has the same basic frame as the $10,000 etap axs version (or close to it). It seems to me road bikes are more likely to do this, but maybe some tri bikes do too.

So what are the opportunities to buy an entry-level tri bike that can effectively be built into a super bike if the fever actually takes hold.
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think you could go wrong with a used bike. Cervélo P3 and P5 pull my strings, but the other bikes are just as incredible. There are probably quite a few "1 and done" triathletes who sell their bikes on Craigslist or various Facebook pages in your area. So, it might be possible to get a pretty good deal on a bike that is still in great shape and already has nice components, or the money saved could be used to upgrade it later if you get one with lower end components.

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Re: Frame advice for wife [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess that what you want to know is which companies trickle down their top end frame molds to the mid and lower tier. I’d argue that isn’t a particularly useful question, but I guess if you want to know that, the list is pretty short.


Yeah, i am asking which companies trickle down the aerodynamics and other wind-cheating tricks (internal routing, integrated accessories, etc) to their lower-end frames. The frames dont have to be identical, but should have *most* of these options - and obviously, they would be heavier due to lower-end carbon.

I realize it isnt going to be a long list - was merely hoping to uncover a couple of options i hadnt thought of. Shiv, Felt AI series, Trek, Canyon and Quintana Roo seem to be among the candidates so far.

I apologize to everyone if this wasnt clear - in my head it was, so of course I assumed y'all were drunk :)


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Last edited by: guadzilla: Oct 12, 19 9:10
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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There are many low end frames that are quite aero. Performance-wise the main things they lack are wheels and a good cockpit. But IMO most high end bikes are also lacking in this regard. A really important aspect for the cockpit is that you want adjustability over a wide range (including tilt). I can't emphasize that enough. For anyone who wants to optimize speed you need to tinker with position. Your body is ~80% of aero drag. In most cases you can upgrade a low end bike, and have better (as fast and easier to live with) setup than one of the "super" bikes.

It needn't cost a lot to upgrade. Maybe $1k at the low end, and more than $2k you are just blowing money (which can be fun, but...). For low budget I'd look at PD Aeria AL Evo bars or Felt Bayonet 3 bars. They'll get you near the top tier for aero and can be adjusted over a wide range. If your budget can stretch to $1k for bars the Tririg Alpha 1s are an excellent choice and are super easy to adjust. For wheels look for a Hed Jet or Flo front with an aluminum brake track... and a disc cover for the rear. And you'll probably want a Tririg Omega X front brake.

I don't do Tri so I'm not up on integrated storage and such. Seems like it might be nice for long course, but wouldn't be useful otherwise. There are good aftermarket solutions for that too if decide you need it later on.

If you are going to up grade the cockpit, wheels, and brake it makes sense to start with a frameset (usually used) and build everything the way you want... if you want to save money that is.
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Re: Frame advice for wife [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
It needn't cost a lot to upgrade. Maybe $1k at the low end, and more than $2k you are just blowing money (which can be fun, but...). For low budget I'd look at PD Aeria AL Evo bars or Felt Bayonet 3 bars. They'll get you near the top tier for aero and can be adjusted over a wide range. If your budget can stretch to $1k for bars the Tririg Alpha 1s are an excellent choice and are super easy to adjust. For wheels look for a Hed Jet or Flo front with an aluminum brake track... and a disc cover for the rear. And you'll probably want a Tririg Omega X front brake.
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If you are going to up grade the cockpit, wheels, and brake it makes sense to start with a frameset (usually used) and build everything the way you want... if you want to save money that is.

It's more a case of convenience - get a frameset which is good enough to be adorned with Ui2/Force eTap down the road, but which comes pretty much built up now, so that she can race right away while she figures out what she likes, etc. Once she dials in her fit and gets a season or two of racing on the bike, then we can figure out whether to upgrade/replace.

And thanks for the tips on the aerobars. It took me a long time to get into a good position on my first TT bike, a PX Stealth, back in 2011, so yeah, i know that a large part of the dance initially is going to be figuring out the riding position. Those recommendations for adjustable bars saved me a lot of searching.

Wheels - i have HED Jet 9/discs on my Shiv. Gonna have her ride those, as well as a pair of 50mm wheels i have lying around, to figure out what works best for her. She's quite light, and may prefer a less deep section up front, at least initially while she is still getting used to riding in the tuck.


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Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
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Re: Frame advice for wife [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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I look at a low end bike and figure I'm not going to use anything but the shifter and rear derailleur anyway... so why pay $2k+ for a bunch of stuff I don't want? But if your plan is keep it near stock for awhile that would be easier. In that case I think it's important for the stock stem and bars to be easy to adjust. That way you can do position tweaking easily. I still like the QR PR3 for you, and they can be had for $2k new.
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