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Flavor of the day coaching
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You can divide coaches in many categories, according to age, level of experience, school of thought (if that exists in triathlon coaching at all), nationality, etc. One of the most common divider, especially in the US, is between coaches that are competitive athletes and those that are not.

For some reason, most people think that a successful athlete will be a successful coach. Not only that is not true, but in my opinion that almost never happens. I often see those coaches that are competitive athletes as "flavor of the day" coaches. Because they are too involved with their own training process, they easily take the tree for the forest and see all other athletes as "clones" of themselves. Because they are not bound by a long-term plan, athletes by definition have difficulty with focusing on long-term plans, they focus on what seemingly works here and now. Because they constantly change their methods, they lack the consistency in methods and processes you need in order to improve.

As a coach, it is very easy to spot these athletes/coaches because they say they are coaches, but talk like athletes. When discussing training, they discuss their training and their experience and have difficulty with abstract/general concepts. When justifying past setbacks, they always act like they were wrong then, but NOW they are right. Whatever is the "flavor of the day" is the absolute truth....now.

All the truly great coaches throughout the years were not and are not competitive athletes. The great coaches are the ones that have the ability to detach themselves from their own experiences and live the experiences of the athletes they coach. The experienced coach is the one that throughout the years learned through the experience of many athletes. The experienced and successful coach is the one that used what he/she learned throughout the years to build a consistent and coherent system for success.
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Is this a knock on Desert Dude?
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [shaner] [ In reply to ]
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On myself, I'm training for a marathon in '07.
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Have you picked which marathon yet? Taking on Erik Clark again ;-) ?
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Whew. Thx for the news. I was this <> close to inquiring on your services.
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Now can you explain why they charge so freaking much?
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [shaner] [ In reply to ]
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If you don't hire me, the lesson you're teaching me is that it's not worth it to be nice to strangers on a bike ;-)

But this thread is not about me!!!
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Paulo, I just have to say, I LOVE your posts.

I agree with what you've written - well said.

Joel
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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The great coaches are the ones that have the ability to detach themselves from their own experiences and live the experiences of the athletes they coach.

Of course. I would hope so.

All the truly great coaches throughout the years were not and are not competitive athletes.

ALL ??? There are a few coaches of other sports (team sports) who were pretty great in their day. Of course I am thinking baseball, basketball, (American) football. Perhaps also tennis, golf ... You know soccer and cycling better: So there were no great soccer coaches who were once very good? Cyclists neither? And none in triathlon?
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Nice post, Paulo.

Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Now who is going to invite you to the annual coaches meetings if you alienate everyone?? ;)
Seriously, you put this much more eloquently than I would have...well done. I just hope I picked the right bike tire.
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [czone] [ In reply to ]
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hmmm ... i believe both you and Paulo were decent triathetes at one point ... so does that put you both in the crappy coach category
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [2fast4u] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
i believe both you and Paulo were decent triathetes at one point
I didn't know you were this FUNNY!
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Obviously there is A LOT you dont know ;) JK I love your posts!
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [2fast4u] [ In reply to ]
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Yes it's true that I raced for the Quiznos racing team at one point in time, but fortunately never reached a high level and decided to focus on coaching exclusively.

Joel
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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If I can add my own experience on the subject, I have been trained by two good athletes in my area. Both went to Kona they have coached me for a year and as Paulo well said they always spoke from their own experience... I did this set, I did this ride, I felt this way, I did this amount of volume, etc. At the end, in both cases I end-up with my worst IM results...

But I have to said to their defense that I never work on a long-term goal (more than 1 year)... I want fast results and now (this year), I don't want to wait 2-3 years... I guess this is probably one of the biggest mistakes that I have made in the past instead of look more on a long-term plan...
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Right, and there is no such thing as a brilliant woman who is also gorgeous.

Being physiologically superior does not mean one cannot possess superior powers of observation as well.
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [czone] [ In reply to ]
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liar!!!! i remember you beating me at duathlon national many years ago....i think you were racing under Swiss Chalet international racing team

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [MTL] [ In reply to ]
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"I want fast results and now (this year), I don't want to wait 2-3 years... I guess this is probably one of the biggest mistakes that I have made in the past instead of look more on a long-term plan... "

It took me five years of racing TT's to break 27mph avg for 20k

New coach (me) says I can do 28.5mph next summer, win some races, and get my USCF CAT 2 upgrade, and I believe him

I decided to become a cycling coach this year, and coach myself (USA Cycling Level III licensed coach)

:)
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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I have a swim coach (Haydn Woolley) he's a top level ex-pro and had the fastest IM swim split for a number of years. He is also an excellent coach. He has the right blend of experience, knowledge, motivation etc etc. He's awesome.

I have a tri coach that mainly writes programs for me. He's still a very good triathlete and has only just been off the podium in several big races in the last year or so, even though he is now in his early 40's. Right around 9 hours IM time and just over 4 hours 1/2 IM. Walter Thorburn is his name and he's awesome too. Completely different guy than Haydn, but amazing in a different way. He is completely obsessed with triathlon, and even makes me look like I don't care!

I am very lucky to have these two guys. They are both ex-top level pro's but I don't think that is particularly important. It just happens to be the case for them. They have both helped enormously in my struggle from BOP to MOP and I owe them both a huge debt of gratitude for their assistance.

I think it's most important to get a coach the works with/for you, rather than just churning out a monthly program from a computer. What background they bring to the game isn't that important. That they make you better (or the best you can be) and that you are comfortable with their methods is what counts.

Remember that those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. (neither of the preceding are meant to be negative in any way)

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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Good point Paulo, but I assume that you are saying that current top athletes don't make great coaches. This is in general true. But there are many former great athletes who are great coaches now. They are still fast now, but now as fast as they were. Is this what you mean?

-C

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Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [CCF] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with you, but I would add that not all great athletes make great coaches either. If many current competitive athletes are "flavor of the day" coaches, former great athletes are often, but not always, "good old days" coaches.

"Good old days" coaches remain too tied to their own experiences as athletes and have a difficulty in adptating to the new nuances in the sport. They often repeat what worked for them and nothing else more. Those coaches are also quite easy to spot, they're saying now what they were saying 10-15 years ago. They use outdated concepts and methods. Very often out of respect they're not contradicted and fail to receive (constructive) criticism that would make them question their methods and improve.
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [Paulo] [ In reply to ]
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It's not so much "from their own experience" that troubles me as much as something I see with great frequency. A superior athlete might not know how or why they are so fast. It comes so naturally to them that they have a difficult time breaking down the elements of the skill. This pertains all to often to the technical side of coaching - or we could call it actualy teaching. Slowman divided tri coaches into two areas the hands on and the distant writer of programs.

Of course there are great athletes who can explain how a lesser athlete can improve but those with great talent in physical engine and great talent in communication are rare combo.

Coming to triathlon a bit later in life, and having switched from a from teaching & coaching skiing to multisport - I feel I'm a better coach for that than if I had be a highschool cross country champ, or swam since I was a tot or the like.

Perspective and communication - far better values in a coach than their PR.
Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [CCF] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with you, but I would add that not all great athletes make great coaches either. If many current competitive athletes are "flavor of the day" coaches, former great athletes are often, but not always, "good old days" coaches.
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Wow, I guess Mark Allen must be in the process on closing down his coaching business with this news.


"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: Flavor of the day coaching [JulianInEngland] [ In reply to ]
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Dear Julian,

There must be something wrong with your editor, you quote my words, but you're replying to Colin. If I were you, I would get that checked.

Thank you very much for your positive contribution to the thread.
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