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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [ludlaw] [ In reply to ]
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Or you could just modify the 11 speed cassette. Seems like there are many options other than buying new wheels...
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes? I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.


Because, while such modified cassettes may work with some true disc wheels (but not covered ones like those by hed or flo), they won't work with many spoked wheels. The issue is not the RD and the spoke clearance when shifting to the biggest cog. The bigger problem is that when the back of an 11-speed cassette is milled by ~1.5mm, the clearance between the back of the cassette cogs/cassette spider and the hub body/hub flanges becomes extremely tight on many wheels. Sometimes the clearance is zero or is a negative number. From measurements that I have taken, milling the back of a cassette won't safely work on a 2006-2008 zipp 808 wheelset for these reasons. So I did this instead, simple and keeps everything future-compatible too.

Greg @ dsw



.

And since I am idiot, just glued some tubulars on new Taiwan wheels to find out later the hub is 10 speed! Planning to do the minus cog for now, hopefyully can find a campy hub.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [MortenFalk] [ In reply to ]
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MortenFalk wrote:
kyle h wrote:
Or you could buy an 11spd Campy cassette and Campy 11spd freehub. Should be a direct swap with 10spd


So if I have a Zipp Sub-9 disc with a 10-speed Shimano freehub, then I could easily just buy a Campagnolo 11-speed freehub and replace the Shimano freehub with the Campagnolo without worrying about re-dishing the wheel?

So has anyone done a mod that worked for the older Zipp disc's other than the trick of taking a cog out? Has anyone do the campagnolo change process?

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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hey bryan. you were able to convert your 808s? getting ready to go 11sd and need to make sure I can convert my 808s.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [vanzk] [ In reply to ]
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Did not work for me

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.tokencycling.com/...195&pc_parent=65

Review here that answers the question about final cassette offset and how it compares to standard 11 speed freehub/cassette install:
http://www.nutsbike.com/tag/cassette
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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I have a Sub-9 and it was 10 speed, I got a new TT bike and went with Di2 11 speed and changed the sub-9 to a campy free hub and slapped on a campy 11 speed cassette with my Di2 and it works great. shifts like a dream with no issues. I guess the spacing between the campy and shimano is very similar.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [cjb3] [ In reply to ]
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cjb3 wrote:
hey bryan. you were able to convert your 808s? getting ready to go 11sd and need to make sure I can convert my 808s.

I did, I put in a Campy hub.

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryan and jmuise, does the converted Campy freehub wheel swap in and out with your other 11 speed wheels w/o requiring a range adjustment on the rear derailleur?
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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SummitAK wrote:
http://www.tokencycling.com/...195&pc_parent=65

Review here that answers the question about final cassette offset and how it compares to standard 11 speed freehub/cassette install:
http://www.nutsbike.com/tag/cassette

Too bad they do not make an 11-32

.

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [duvivr6] [ In reply to ]
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duvivr6 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes? I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.


Because, while such modified cassettes may work with some true disc wheels (but not covered ones like those by hed or flo), they won't work with many spoked wheels. The issue is not the RD and the spoke clearance when shifting to the biggest cog. The bigger problem is that when the back of an 11-speed cassette is milled by ~1.5mm, the clearance between the back of the cassette cogs/cassette spider and the hub body/hub flanges becomes extremely tight on many wheels. Sometimes the clearance is zero or is a negative number. From measurements that I have taken, milling the back of a cassette won't safely work on a 2006-2008 zipp 808 wheelset for these reasons. So I did this instead, simple and keeps everything future-compatible too.

Greg @ dsw



.


And since I am idiot, just glued some tubulars on new Taiwan wheels to find out later the hub is 10 speed! Planning to do the minus cog for now, hopefyully can find a campy hub.

I continue to look at how to use my older zipp disc with a new 11 speed, for minimal costs.

Looks like the campy hub could work but first there is the cost for the hub and then the 11/32 cassette. And once this is done, that is all I could use it with.

But if I use your trick of removing a cog, first I get the 11/32 cassette as a shimano decent priced part. I can just remove, (looking for my tool now), the 10 speed 11/32 I have on it now,
and just put on the modified 11/32 11 speed. really no extra cost since I can modifiy this back to 11 speed just putting the cog in. And if I want to use the zipp to race on my 10 speed bike,
I can just put the old 11/32 10 speed cassette back on, again now cost.

So yes this means I have to be a little bit of a bike mechanic, but sure seems for cost and compatibility, this might be the ideal way to go.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I knew I ran across another conversion cassette option recently. Bikerumor says only 11-25 available. That may be what Reynolds was planning to stock. The EDCO site lists multiple sizes for 10 speed, but there may be some issue with the webpage format because there is a 10s to 11s section that shows nothing while many of the monoblock listings show 10sp freehub compatibility. I can see where they could make this work with one cassette style and a different lockring for each (10 and 11sp) freehub, but this would mean the entire 1.8mm width increase hangs off the end of the freehub. Seems like taking up some width at each end of the cassette would be a more conservative approach.

For those of you considering this option it is probably worth corresponding with EDCO or Reynolds.

Edco 10s to 11s on Bikerumor

Edco Monoblock 11-32
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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SummitAK wrote:
I knew I ran across another conversion cassette option recently. Bikerumor says only 11-25 available. That may be what Reynolds was planning to stock. The EDCO site lists multiple sizes for 10 speed, but there may be some issue with the webpage format because there is a 10s to 11s section that shows nothing while many of the monoblock listings show 10sp freehub compatibility. I can see where they could make this work with one cassette style and a different lockring for each (10 and 11sp) freehub, but this would mean the entire 1.8mm width increase hangs off the end of the freehub. Seems like taking up some width at each end of the cassette would be a more conservative approach.

For those of you considering this option it is probably worth corresponding with EDCO or Reynolds.

Edco 10s to 11s on Bikerumor

Edco Monoblock 11-32

Interesting. Looks like this would work. Sure not cheap.

..

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes? I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.


Because, while such modified cassettes may work with some true disc wheels (but not covered ones like those by hed or flo), they won't work with many spoked wheels. The issue is not the RD and the spoke clearance when shifting to the biggest cog. The bigger problem is that when the back of an 11-speed cassette is milled by ~1.5mm, the clearance between the back of the cassette cogs/cassette spider and the hub body/hub flanges becomes extremely tight on many wheels. Sometimes the clearance is zero or is a negative number. From measurements that I have taken, milling the back of a cassette won't safely work on a 2006-2008 zipp 808 wheelset for these reasons. So I did this instead, simple and keeps everything future-compatible too.

Greg @ dsw



.


And since I am idiot, just glued some tubulars on new Taiwan wheels to find out later the hub is 10 speed! Planning to do the minus cog for now, hopefyully can find a campy hub.


I continue to look at how to use my older zipp disc with a new 11 speed, for minimal costs.

Looks like the campy hub could work but first there is the cost for the hub and then the 11/32 cassette. And once this is done, that is all I could use it with.

But if I use your trick of removing a cog, first I get the 11/32 cassette as a shimano decent priced part. I can just remove, (looking for my tool now), the 10 speed 11/32 I have on it now,
and just put on the modified 11/32 11 speed. really no extra cost since I can modifiy this back to 11 speed just putting the cog in. And if I want to use the zipp to race on my 10 speed bike,
I can just put the old 11/32 10 speed cassette back on, again now cost.

So yes this means I have to be a little bit of a bike mechanic, but sure seems for cost and compatibility, this might be the ideal way to go.

.


Your solution sounds workable to me. If however, you did go with Campa, the free-hub will accommodate 9-10-11 speed Campa cassettes and you can run Campy 10 with Shimano 10 or Campy 11 with Shimano 11 without drama and so you get plenty of options. You can also just buy a Chorus cassette and not worry about Record/Super Record $$. Zipp free-hubs however, are not cheap - but I'd still think this is the most technically sound and simplest way to go.

One other thing to consider is that 11 speed chains are finer than 10 speed ones - but I have never changed chains myself.

There are several technical articles here on Slowtwitch on this or related topics. This one looks at this from the point of view of the cassette - may be useful.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Cassette_Evolution_4171.html
Last edited by: PT: Apr 10, 15 17:33
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [PT] [ In reply to ]
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PT wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
duvivr6 wrote:
Why is nobody selling these "milled" cassettes? I am sure bunch of people would buy them to save their 10 speed wheels.


Because, while such modified cassettes may work with some true disc wheels (but not covered ones like those by hed or flo), they won't work with many spoked wheels. The issue is not the RD and the spoke clearance when shifting to the biggest cog. The bigger problem is that when the back of an 11-speed cassette is milled by ~1.5mm, the clearance between the back of the cassette cogs/cassette spider and the hub body/hub flanges becomes extremely tight on many wheels. Sometimes the clearance is zero or is a negative number. From measurements that I have taken, milling the back of a cassette won't safely work on a 2006-2008 zipp 808 wheelset for these reasons. So I did this instead, simple and keeps everything future-compatible too.

Greg @ dsw



.


And since I am idiot, just glued some tubulars on new Taiwan wheels to find out later the hub is 10 speed! Planning to do the minus cog for now, hopefyully can find a campy hub.


I continue to look at how to use my older zipp disc with a new 11 speed, for minimal costs.

Looks like the campy hub could work but first there is the cost for the hub and then the 11/32 cassette. And once this is done, that is all I could use it with.

But if I use your trick of removing a cog, first I get the 11/32 cassette as a shimano decent priced part. I can just remove, (looking for my tool now), the 10 speed 11/32 I have on it now,
and just put on the modified 11/32 11 speed. really no extra cost since I can modifiy this back to 11 speed just putting the cog in. And if I want to use the zipp to race on my 10 speed bike,
I can just put the old 11/32 10 speed cassette back on, again now cost.

So yes this means I have to be a little bit of a bike mechanic, but sure seems for cost and compatibility, this might be the ideal way to go.

.


Your solution sounds workable to me. If however, you did go with Campa, the free-hub will accommodate 9-10-11 speed Campa cassettes and you can run Campy 10 with Shimano 10 or Campy 11 with Shimano 11 without drama and so you get plenty of options. You can also just buy a Chorus cassette and not worry about Record/Super Record $$. Zipp free-hubs however, are not cheap - but I'd still think this is the most technically sound and simplest way to go.

One other thing to consider is that 11 speed chains are finer than 10 speed ones - but I have never changed chains myself.

There are several technical articles here on Slowtwitch on this or related topics. This one looks at this from the point of view of the cassette - may be useful.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Cassette_Evolution_4171.html

So you are saying if I put a campy freebhub on I can use all my Shimano 10 or 11 speed cassettes?

.

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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No, you'll need Campa cassettes. They're not interchangeable due to the spline patterns. What I mean is that a Campa 11 wheel will run with a Shimano 11 drivetrain (ie rear mech), 10 speed should be fine too. Does that make sense ?
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [PT] [ In reply to ]
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PT wrote:
No, you'll need Campa cassettes. They're not interchangeable due to the spline patterns. What I mean is that a Campa 11 wheel will run with a Shimano 11 drivetrain (ie rear mech), 10 speed should be fine too. Does that make sense ?

Okay, by using the word drive train, that makes sense. But then I could no longer use my shamino cassettes on the wheel with a campy hub.

Trying to save some money is a pain. :(

.

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [mendne] [ In reply to ]
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mendne wrote:
Here's a picture of the ground down cassette. I'm not sure if this would work for spoked wheels as the rear mech May foul with the spokes. On my disc there is plenty of clearance so no problems...
http://tinypic.com/...?pic=1zlchnt&s=8

Does anyone know where to have a cassette ground? I want to use this on my 10 speed Zipp 900.
I found a Japanese shop (http://www.paxcycle.com/...d=1732841&csid=1) sells modified CS-6800/CS-5800 for about $100, but I'm trying to avoid the hassle of international shipping.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Another option regarding getting your wheel to work. Free and very simple:

http://darkspeedworks.com/blog.htm



.

Mate this is brilliant! I was just about to machine out the back of my cassette
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [jpwiki] [ In reply to ]
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I had the freewheel of my Zipp Super-9 and back of the Ultegra cassette machined for 20 ($23). Works like a charm.
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [jpwiki] [ In reply to ]
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jpwiki wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Another option regarding getting your wheel to work. Free and very simple:

http://darkspeedworks.com/blog-11speed.htm

Mate this is brilliant! I was just about to machine out the back of my cassette.


No worries, glad to help!

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [duduardoman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm borrowing a friends disc which is 10s, i have access to a workshop but this method saves me from ruining one of my cassettes
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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [aki] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone know where to have a cassette ground?

Another option is to grind material off your freehub so that the cassette can slide on farther. I've heard of people doing that with a dremel tool. It's a little easier to get right because they are series of fairly small tabs.

In either case you need to establish that you have enough derailleur clearance and space between the cassette and hub body to move it inboard ~2mm. That will still leave an extra .85mm sticking out on the dropout side, but usually there is room for that. If not, then you need to move the cassette a little further inboard.

If you simply can't make enough room, then you need to create more space. Get a C11 axle and spacer kit if possible. This will give you more space between the hub and dropout. The wheel will require redishing, but that is very simple.

Whether you modify the cassette or the freehub, it's good to have thin spacers to adjust the position. 1mm is not thin enough. More like .25mm.

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Re: Fitting an 11 speed cassette to a 10 speed zipp disc wheel [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Another option is to grind material off your freehub so that the cassette can slide on farther. I've heard of people doing that with a dremel tool. It's a little easier to get right because they are series of fairly small tabs.

This is true.

Unfortunately, there are also plenty of reports on the net of riders who did this mod with, say, a zipp alloy freehub, and shortly thereafter the freehub cracks in that area. Those tiny little tabs take quite a bit of load once the cassette lockring is torqued down. So, removing the necessary material on the freehub makes the reliability of the freehub far more sketchy. But not so with milling an ultegra cassette, as the amount of metal there on the support of the alloy cog carrier is quite substantial. Fyi, but ymmv ...

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