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First TT Bike - How does position look?
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Finally bit the bullet and decided to put and end to the square peg > round hold scenario that I have been trying on my road bike for the last few years.

Picked up a Felt B14 a few months ago and had the local F.I.S.T. guy at the same shop give me my first fit. Only adjustment I made was slightly lowering the saddle afterwards, but I may have actually gone too low (if that's possible...).

Love any constructive feedback.

Thanks!


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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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It's too low, and it's the wrong saddle for you
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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I am no expert, but you look scrunched. Your back reminds me of a cat stretching itself. Is this for TT or for tri?

Not sure if you're working within the confines of UCI rules or not, but in my uneducated opinion you could be "longer".

Anytime I've looked like that on my road bike I used to use with clip ons, or my current TT bike......I could not make power.

My "length" and saddle height has me doing the TT bike saddle shuffle, everyday I'm shufflin....LMFAO style. But, it makes good power and is proving over quite a few rides now to give good watt/speed numbers. No idea on watt/CdA, but I like what I'm seeing. With minimal adaption time between road bike now too.

Although, I'd wait for Eric and a few others in ST to come in here and give the real advice. They are experts.
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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Your lower body is riding the bike like you are riding upright. If you sat up straight, there would be literally no difference from your hips down. You are bending at the waist instead of the hips, which will make your lower back hurt and crunch your breathing.

You need to rotate your hips forward and sit more on your taint than your butt. A dual-nosed saddle lets you do this without making your junk go numb.
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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My back hurts just looking at that fit.

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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [ In reply to ]
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I'm no expert, but it looks good to me. Just ride outside short and long distance and see how you feel.
You can go from there.
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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ZenTriBrett wrote:
Your lower body is riding the bike like you are riding upright. If you sat up straight, there would be literally no difference from your hips down. You are bending at the waist instead of the hips, which will make your lower back hurt and crunch your breathing.

You need to rotate your hips forward and sit more on your taint than your butt. A dual-nosed saddle lets you do this without making your junk go numb.

Huh ok - I don't really notice the saddle, but could try dual-nosed again. I have tried them in the past, but disliked due to the extra width and padding.
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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dmagic17 wrote:

Huh ok - I don't really notice the saddle, but could try dual-nosed again. I have tried them in the past, but disliked due to the extra width and padding.


You say you don't notice the saddle, but that appears to be because you arch your lower back a huge amount to accommodate it, which is sub-optimal from an overall fit/performance perspective. Folks in this thread are saying you're sitting on the bike wrong, and it's likely because of the saddle. Does that make sense?

I'll try to elaborate. In that pic, you're sitting on the back part of what looks like a pretty conventional road saddle. So you have to rotate your pelvis backwards to minimize your genitals being crushed. The idea with a noseless saddle (Fizik Mistica, ISM, etc.) is that you sit up on the nose of it and your genitals are free in space (inside your shorts anyway). That enables you to rotate your pelvis forward, straighten your spine - both enabling better power as well as a flatter, lower position.

But, it has to be the right noseless saddle for you, and it has to be positioned properly. If you just stick the new saddle where the current one is, then you'll either sit on the back of it (which misses the point), or you'll be squished so far forward that you'll feel even worse. So, figure out where your sit bones want to be on the current saddle, then position the noseless saddle with a point 4-5cm back from the very front tip at that point. The front tip of the saddle will necessarily be much further back than the tip of your current saddle.

If your experience to date with noseless saddles has been that they are too wide or too soft, look at the ISM PN series, the Fizik Tritone or Mistica (normal, not wide width), the Fabric Tri, or the PRO Stealth. Those all come with noses between 52-55mm wide, and are not overly padded. In particular, the Fabric is pretty hard, and the PRO has pretty thin padding.
Last edited by: vjohn: Apr 18, 19 14:00
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [vjohn] [ In reply to ]
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Yup - I get it. The Fabric seems right up my alley and price makes it worth a try. Stay tuned for v2 :)
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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I feel bad for your lower back!!!!!
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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Your saddle position/hip rotation is basically the same as you would use on a roadie. That's causing that big bend in your lower back to get your elbows down to the pads. For a tri bike, you want to rotate forward from your hips.

Look at the position from the latest hour record; he's pivoted forward so less back curvature is needed to get low.


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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Before and after now with a Fabric Tri saddle and slightly raised. I don't see any improvement looking at the picture but I haven't done much tweaking yet.[/img]
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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dmagic17 wrote:
Before and after now with a Fabric Tri saddle and slightly raised. I don't see any improvement looking at the picture but I haven't done much tweaking yet.[/img]

It still looks really painful.

Continuing the 'roll your hips forward' theme: Try sitting on your bike, upright. Place your hands on your hip bones. Try to 'roll forward' or tilt forward so your hips change angle. That's the key that's missing in this picture. Bluntly, you'll be putting more pressure on your perineum/taint. That's not really our goal here (in fact, pressure on the perineum is bad long term) , but it'll give an indication you're making the right motion. That movement, combined with sliding a lot forward on your saddle // a split nose saddle (to eliminate that pressure) is the right move. That forward motion will likely tighten up your elbow angle too. But fundamentally, this is a hip angle problem. Your hips are positioning your back to want to be basically upright, and then you're getting this huge curve in your back to get low. Straightening your back will necessitate rolling your hips.

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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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The ā€˜problemā€™ is that you bend in your lower back. Stand up straight and imagine that your back needs to be straight and that the point of rotaion is the greater trochanter. That bumpy bone protrusion at the side of your upper leg hip. Bend forward and that bony point is your axle of rotation. It might me sonething physical that hold you back for bending like that or just a bad saddle choice, but if the latter is the case you need to try different saddles that allow you to bend forward with crushing the ā€˜junkā€™ ;-)

Jeroen

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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dmagic17 wrote:
I don't see any improvement looking at the picture but I haven't done much tweaking yet.


Posture. Practice relaxing your back and let your belly hang. Pedaling might feel weird at first, but keep at it.

BTW, your saddle wasn't too low in the original video. Your femur-hip angle wasn't anywhere near being pinched. That may change a bit if you rotate your hips forward. There are aero benefits to keeping the saddle low.

Regarding saddles. I can't use a split saddle because I don't sit square in the seat (leg length discrepancy), but recently picked up a used Prologo Tgale that isn't split, and quite like it. Narrow nose. Pretty firm.

Since we are posting positions of pros, here is one who doesn't rotate his hips much:


Last edited by: rruff: Apr 23, 19 13:48
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [justinhorne] [ In reply to ]
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A longer stem may help to flatten out your back by giving you more room to rotate your hips forward. Just for grins, try resting your elbows in the middle or very front of the pads. Either way, you definitely look like you're bending at the lower back and not at the hips.
Last edited by: dktxracer: Apr 23, 19 14:01
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dktxracer] [ In reply to ]
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dktxracer wrote:
A longer stem may help to flatten our your back by giving you more room to rotate your hips forward. Just for grins, try resting your elbows in the middle or very front of the pads. Either way, you definitely look like your bending at the lower back and not at the hips.

Thatā€™s what Iā€™m thinking. The bike is too short with the stem to let him roll his hips forward. So itā€™s causing him to sit up like that cause heā€™s adjusting to where his contact points are, instead of adjusting the contact points to where they should be.
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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me too. Moar reach

edit: the bike is too small ;)

Grant.Reuter wrote:
dktxracer wrote:
A longer stem may help to flatten our your back by giving you more room to rotate your hips forward. Just for grins, try resting your elbows in the middle or very front of the pads. Either way, you definitely look like your bending at the lower back and not at the hips.


Thatā€™s what Iā€™m thinking. The bike is too short with the stem to let him roll his hips forward. So itā€™s causing him to sit up like that cause heā€™s adjusting to where his contact points are, instead of adjusting the contact points to where they should be.

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Last edited by: ericMPro: Apr 23, 19 13:48
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:
Thatā€™s what Iā€™m thinking. The bike is too short with the stem to let him roll his hips forward.

Definitely not. His upper arm angle is still >90deg to his torso. He isn't rotating for other reasons... habit, comfort.
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
me too. Moar reach

edit: the bike is too small ;)

Grant.Reuter wrote:
dktxracer wrote:
A longer stem may help to flatten our your back by giving you more room to rotate your hips forward. Just for grins, try resting your elbows in the middle or very front of the pads. Either way, you definitely look like your bending at the lower back and not at the hips.


Thatā€™s what Iā€™m thinking. The bike is too short with the stem to let him roll his hips forward. So itā€™s causing him to sit up like that cause heā€™s adjusting to where his contact points are, instead of adjusting the contact points to where they should be.

As an experiment, might I suggest moving the saddle backwards? (a lot, eg by flipping the seatpost around)
Currently it's jammed hard forwards.
It probably wouldn't result in the ideal fit (reduces the hip angle) but it might force some pelvic rotation by stretching out the torso, and give OP the feel of what that is supposed to feel like.
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [MattyK] [ In reply to ]
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Really appreciate all the suggestions. I have always had posture issues so that is likely a lot of the issue - I'll continue working on flattening out on a one of these saddles. I will continue to post updates here.
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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Another saddle - Starting to see a difference now... (before/after)
Last edited by: dmagic17: Apr 27, 19 18:01
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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Looks better. How does it feel? Also, what events are you doing?

Are those Felt Bayonet 3 bars? If so, do you have the riser kit for it?
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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Thats a lot beter. Which saddle are you one

Mvg
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Re: First TT Bike - How does position look? [dmagic17] [ In reply to ]
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agreed, looks way better. Upper body and arms look solid. Can't tell definitively on the saddle position without a video.

Note that with the new saddle (looks like an ISM) it will be contacting you in areas that haven't been sat on before. Don't be surprised if you pick up a chafing blister or two. Recommend short rides to start with, building to longer rides, and lots of chamois cream.
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