Maybe, but again, how large can the market possibly be? To buy a new $10k bike every couple of years you need passion for the sport and massive discretionary income. My gut tells me that we hit peak bike with the last iteration of speed concept/shiv/felt IA/P5. It would be interesting if anyone with actual sales figures can chime in.

Annual revenues

Enve - $30M
HED - $8M

I ran a simple model based on Nick's disclosure the other day - it indicated lifetime revenues of well over $10M. Seems better than the light saber business. WHO BUYS A $1K LIGHT SABER!?!

Anyways, assume NOPAT of 15-20% for these companies, I dunno. But other words, tiny. There are lots of Executive Challenge participants that profit more than the above two companies combined in any given year.

I don't know why consumption on a per participant basis would change on a long term (annual) basis, but if we are losing absolute participants, which we very well may be, then endemic companies will feel the hurt.

We will need to wait for the next USAT numbers to get a real gauge on the health of the sport and the companies that depend on it.

Diamondback, in particular, should be immune from softness in our sport's growth, considering that the bread and butter for them is crap bikes from Dick's

Oh and disc's will be a windfall for all of these companies in the short term, particularly for the wheel companies. Why do you think they are trying so hard to force them down our throats even though they are entirely unnecessary?

Okay, so I am very impressed with DB for coming out with something so unusual in the mundane Tri world. Big credit to them for crossing boundaries.

Having been a "beam-bike" owner/rider since 2009 on a custom Pearson Z1, I am fully aware of the non-double triangle designs. In fact, I talked with TJ before he finalized his Dimond design, and he had already spoken with Graeme in New Zealand about his Z1 (and no, not the Z1-11 design, but the earlier 2008/09 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z5EvT2bnbM) design that Batistella and he collaborated on, yet Graeme actually made it). Yes, I actually rode my Pearson in 11 Ironman races, including Kona 2013. I built my own seatpost, and found a custom fork that mated up with the headtube. Yada, yada.....okay so I come into this with some idea of out-of-the-norm frames....

I like the Andean for its radical front end and front wheel-to-downtube design. As someone previously mentioned, it looks a lot like the Baracchi, also, looks very very similar to the Ruegamer bike that was previously at Tribe Multisport in AZ. Yes, I know that the Ruegamer didn't actually function, but still the aero design concept was there, (http://www.mountainflyermagazine.com/...e/10/RueSports_6.jpg).

Okay, so here are some points to ponder about the Andean.....

1. Weight. Looks grat, but what is the weight factor for the added CF?
2. Heavy steering head feel. I know that the BTA bottle is great and aero (I run it now on my bike), but still adding mass out front makes for piss-poor steering feel. Now, add in all that "storage" area just behind the stem/forktube..... It's high up above the CG of the bike, it's near the steering fulcrum, thus adding mass behind the torque of the steering. Point is, can't we get rid of mass on the frame and put it on our backs, and just leave the headtube/stem/toptube junction clean and light and smooth?
3. Disc brakes....is there a disc wheel that has a disc rotor on it? Also, the front wheel...what if I want to use a tri-spoke, is there a tri-spoke wheel with a disc rotor on it?
4. Why truncate the trailing edge of the frame junction above the rear wheel and behind the seatpost? Why not just continue it out to a point like the nosecone? And, don't tell me the Kamm tail idea makes any difference on that small of an edge, and when the front half of the bike is already so radical...a 4 inch tall Kamm design isn't going to make a squats bit of difference (let alone that the whole idea of the Kamm is to help with crosswinds, and has nothing to do with 0-to-low yaw flow which is what the Andean seems to be designed around). Again, look at the Ruegamer bike and it's trailing edges. Everything comes to a point to "close-out" air flow and not create eddy's.

I am not knocking the Andean at all....these points I bring up are just simply small things may help to gain .0001% more in a perfect world. Still, I like the Andean and its design. I think the biggest question as of now is just exactly what Rappstar asked... will it be legal to race based on "fairings"?? I know it's different from the Bolide, Dimond, and Omni frames, and IMO (and just IMO) the Bolide, Dimond, and Omni shouldn't be allowed with the REMOVABLE brake covers that act as fairings. Yes, these covers act as fairings and have absolutely "0" (zero) to do with frame's structural design or integrity, or the function of the brakes. Therefore, again IMO, these magnetically attached covers are fairings, ie: the brakes function without the need of the covers (so how are they not considered fairings?). As I read the "rules"....if there is a part of the bike frame that is not permanently attached or moulded as part of the entire frame structure, then it can not be allowed. Same reason as why TJ couldn't race his front aero bottle wind shield hydration contraption (ie: it was a removable water-bottle with a fairing attached to it.) Okay, so where/how do rear wheel aero-jackets fit in....simple....it's part of the wheel, and the rules haven't applied there (yet). Same reason HED got away with the HED3D wheels (a carbon addition to increase wheel profile height, but yet wasn't a permanently attached or moulded in structure.

Hey, I'm just throwing these points out there on this Andean thread.

Personally, I like the Andean. My biggest problem with it is the disc brake set up. If there was a fork with built in calipers, ie: Trek SC, that would be perfect, and do the same thing for the rear inside the chainstays. Now that would have my money on the table right now for an order.

---

Team Zoot-Texas, and Pickle Juice

Really good thoughts

I recall Cervelo talking about how the extended seatpost cutout was truncated (i.e. Kamm) on the P5 because it actually made the bike faster with a rider on board, but slower static in the wind tunnel.

Damn rider/bike interaction.

What do you mean? Nick Salazar told me this wasn't important.

It's important, but only if your post-production wind tunnel results show a clear improvement over your competitors.

---

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

Are you sure he said those exact words?

Disc brakes may be more aero at 0 degrees but what about 12, 15, etc yaw angle? I do not believe they have any real data on this yet do they? However, disc brakes offer much better braking power and are safer in wet weather so it would be a pleasant surprise.

I would be worried about speed bump clearence.

Stay tuned, the next version will have a rinse kit built in.

Pretty Cool, I like the on board storage

---

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Any word on colors yet?

Red and black. See my updated post on first page.

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Black goes with everything!

Pricing look pretty good, cheapest price gets Sram X1 set up and training wheels. Would just love to see more wind tunnel data on the Andean with a rider on it vs a P5 or SC.

---

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

I like those first two price points, but I suspect the bike will look ridiculous with those wheels and I don't have any disc brake race wheels.

which little training wheels it will look god awful 100%, i don't have any disk break wheels either, i suspect most of us don't.

---

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

As with many things, the devil is in the detail. Cervelo's first bike was a moon shot. The P3 is a Porsche 911 with lotsa development and refinement.


While there's no available wind tunnel data on this bike, I'd hope that it tests at least reasonably well. My calibrated eyeball says it should :-). And of course, the placebo effect would be in full force. Riding that bike would make anyone faster (maybe).

Even if it's not actually great in the wind tunnel A) that's not all this bike is B) it gives lotsa impetus to others to improve on it further

---

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

"There is nothing new under the sun, on that which has been forgotten"

---

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Nope. Do not want.

This thing is going to be horrible to own in the real world.

Hard to cable/hose, heavy, a pig in the wind, terrible up/downhill, poor tyre clearance, poor road clearance, will ride like a jackhammer, packing for travel, recovering a dropped chain will be a nightmare... I could go on.

Then there's the looks. Not for me! The only place this might be nice to ride is in the velodrome - where it's illegal.

My 2c

Looks like it already has fat tyres on.
Disc brake housing never needs to be changed.
Go electric if you are worried about running a new gear cable every couple of years.
Cable run has no need to be difficult on this frame and given the huge internal space may be one of the easiest.
My bike has never dropped a chain. Why should this?
Ride is determined as much by layup as geometry, you have no clue until you sit on it.
It may very well be excellent in the wind as it is quite wide.
With quick connects on the brakes and electric, it would be a cinch to pack.
Why would it be terrible downhill? Has it some geometry flaw?
It may not be best uphill, but when is the last time any tri course went up anything over 6% where this thing would fly?

You've never worked in a shop and had to cater to the lowest common denominator have you?