……. the wind tunnel says so.

I’m not sure there is another answer is there?

….. it allows ur shoulders to drop and head to tuck down and in?

I believe it was testing from findingfreestyle? Trentnix? Desert dude ? That says parallel bars are actually faster IF all things are the same, eg head position etc etc…..i think the idea with high hands position is to allow that change though. To allow other portions of the body to become more aerodynamic.

Fwiw I have a trek sc and ran s-shaped bars for ages before swapping to plug-in and now using zipp vuka 70, with only a small amount of tilt (about 5 degrees). I tried higher hands and couldn’t get as comfy, aero be damned. Ymmv

...if you actually need glasses to read your computer but prefer to race without them

Ask the guy in my club with two broken wrists and grazes full body after he ran up the back of a car last month. Hands high head down, no vision.

It should be banned, so dangerous

Need to separate the two variables. The problem is head down, which is independent from high hands.


Edit. Better will be determined only after testing, which in this specific instance shouldn’t be too difficult.

 

I think refer to Cam Wurf position slight rise at front. Or frodo flat at front but very close together not many amateurs can hold such tight arm position for 180km. I think width of arms much bigger impact then angle of aero gains.

I cant recall the exact source it may have been GCN did some research into arm angle with them finding flat arms was the fastest position but not much between the various angles options . They went on to suggest slight tilt supported comfort and therefore the rider could stay aero longer so likely the best option overall.

Im very much against high hands due to safety but understand many find that comfortable so it is each person’s decision for them and if it feels good for you definitely go for it. Just dont forget to look what’s ahead.

A lot depends on the specific rider regarding angle of the bars. For me, going from arms flat to a very high hands position resulted in a lot of drag reduction. For my wife, the opposite was true.

Stability and handling is no different, as the primary weightbearing contact points on the aerobars will be the same in either setup. Arm separation, though, will have a handling impact.

If you're not testing you're guessing on this position, well any position. So if you're not testing use what's most comfy and you can sustain the position most often, as long as it's safe.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Your club mate should be banned, not the high hands position. No one says you should drop your head just because your hands are up.

...if it feels more comfortable. It's that simple for me. It feels so much better and easy to hold the position.

You make great points. Triathlon is a joke. Next week everyone will be flat again because it's more aero. Lmao. Trends are continuously back and forth and my opinion is to do what is best for the individual as trends change overnight in this sport. It changes so much it's laughable.

As a general rule, I recommend NOT getting your tech or aero advice from GCN videos.

You have to be able to hold it for a full race distance as well. Aero for a 20 mile TT is out the window if you're position gets loose after 80 miles of an IM.

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Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4

Testing is the only way to know, but few people (very few in North America), have any understanding of this position or how to fit it. It's far more than simply angling your forearms up from level or even raised. It's a different position, and there are many adjustments that must be made to achieve a proper Mantis.

First, though, how do you define Mantis position? What angle are your forearms? At a certain angle, usually as you approach, or go over, 20 degrees, you'll need support at the back of your elbows. This will not only give you proper support, but also better control over your bike. Mantis, in my mind, is any position that requires this type of support. Even with proper position adjustments and elbow support, not everyone can achieve Mantis comfortably. For those who can achieve it, it's incredibly comfortable.

I was completely against Mantis, and tried to deny it for two years, but after testing hundreds of athletes in proper Mantis positions, I finally had to give in because there's no doubt it's the fastest position for the majority of people who can achieve it, and you'll soon see products designed around this position to make it more comfortable and even faster. Still, I caution anyone to try this position unless they are already competent bike handlers, and there's no doubt that, while it's much easier to look forward with your head low in this position, your hands do compromise your field of view. Despite all the data, I still put very few people in this position. Arms angled up? Yes. Mantis, not so much.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

If you're a Praying Mantis

This could be true of basically any position… A position doesn’t fix stupid.

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My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist

absolutely

Agreed. Not sure why anyone would be riding without looking forward as 'their position'. Actually, the fact that the computer could be visible while looking forward is something that interests me in the position. Looking down (despite briefly) is not something I like to do.

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Running is the best source of fiber that I know of...

GTN ran a video with an ex-pro (Heather) and it was faster 'parallel'. That said, she eventually seems to change her position in later videos to a more upward angle... It was also something the fitter said that with some other position changes the mantis position 'could be faster', but the more important part is that for most it seemed more comfortable over the long haul. More comfort = more power.

Whenever I have turned the bars up in the past, the problem I then have is that my elbows seem too low. That's due to the fact that the pads are a little bit closer to the forearms then they are the elbow (hence my elbows seem to slip. However, when I put the pads further back, I'd have the problem where my knees would hit them when I'd stand (perhaps this is also because I have a larger crank). That being said, I am curious to find a way to get a more comfortable and powerful position in this setup...

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Running is the best source of fiber that I know of...

Hi Don. In the response right before this, I wrote...


"Whenever I have turned the bars up in the past, the problem I then have is that my elbows seem too low. That's due to the fact that the pads are a little bit closer to the forearms then they are the elbow (hence my elbows seem to slip. However, when I put the pads further back, I'd have the problem where my knees would hit them when I'd stand (perhaps this is also because I have a larger crank). That being said, I am curious to find a way to get a more comfortable and powerful position in this setup..."


Was this the same feeling you were getting? And, did you achieve your position by getting a longer / higher position stem to the basebar?

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Running is the best source of fiber that I know of...

Hi Jim. In your opinion, provided that one can get...
1. a higher position that DOES NOT obstruct view, and
2. Have it be comfortable / feel powerful

will bike handling always suffer as a result???

I ask because where I live there are plenty of windy roads with potholes, and blind spots where a driver can come out of nowhere fast.

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Running is the best source of fiber that I know of...

Rotating the aerobars up will have the effect of dropping their point of contact on the elbow pads and shortening their reach. I ended up raising my bars to accommodate the drop, and I went with a slightly longer stem to bring my reach back to where it was. With some adjustments via your stem config, you should be able to get a position similar to what you have found comfortable. When I was able to race with aerobars (I had a really bad accident that prevents me from using them any longer), my position felt very solid and comfortable, with no accidental movement of my arms. Just getting the pads in plane with the lower arm makes a huge difference. Because, at the time, it wasn't easy to adjust the extension angle with fully integrated bars, using a separate clip-on/base bar combo was a good solution. And using Vision's extensions, which have a minimal clamping system, really wouldn't cause much--if any--aero issues.

Interesting. Never had a fully integrated bar setup, as at the time (10-15 yrs ago) less options were available. Always went back to profile due to their high level of adjustability (relative to other clip-ons) and fully integrated ones. Although, now it seems there are way more options.

Will likely play around with this this winter. My biggest limiter here is that sometimes I just hate experimenting because it takes the joy out of the little time I have to train to begin with...

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Running is the best source of fiber that I know of...