Not sexist - its biological.

I mean a woman who just went through 9 months of pregnancy, childbirth and caring a newborn can still manage to train and finish an Ironman is comendable. When men are able to give birth and breastfeed, I will commends them too!

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I certainly understand what you are saying (and agree that kids shouldn't be allowed as well) I'm just trying to point out it isn't so clear cut as there is a rule and you are breaking it. How could IMNA keep making it easier for this to happen if it was against their rules. I do not know if there is some addendum to the rules that IMNA applied for to allow this to happen, probably isn't, but these are their races and they are truly encouraging this behaviour.

Like I said - stuck in a no win situation.

ST forum participants, for what it's worth are not in favour of it. The tri masses seem to want it despite the impracticality of it.

The clear implication is that only REAL triathletes come to the ST forum.

:)

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

I don't understand what men athletes are trying to say when they carry an infant across the finish line.

They are saying "I know I've ignored you for the past 9 months but here's your payback, you get to be in a picture with ME."

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

OK I get your point, meaning a very knew mother carring her child across the line.

I was thinking that somehow you were saying men are less attached to their children than women were. I.E. a women gave birth to them so it's ok for them to cross the finish line with their children but not men.

~Matt

Rules aside, how about explaining that some Slowtwitcher has vowed to run over your kid(s) if they get in his/her way in the chute.

Whether on accident or on purpose there is a very real safety issue and as a parent no way in hell am I putting my kids into that type of situation despite their or my wifes insistance.

~Matt

Holy crap I had no idea....that you wore a red shirt I always thought it was blue.

~Matt

....my wife pretty much made the deal with me if I am going to do another IM I have to cross the line with the kids....

Man, you've got to make better deals. If someone takes a picture and posts it here, you will never live it down. Maybe you should "renegotiate" and offer her a cruise or trip to Disney instead.

I feel your pain. It's one thing to break the rules but quite another to make a deal with your wife and then try to tell her it can't be done.

Ouch.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

"they are sanctioning it and making it easier for people to do. "

Hmmm or maybe they are trying to create as safe of a situation as possible and keep as many of the rule breakers happy without getting their asses sued off. It won't be long however before an actual athlete runs over someones kid and the parent of that kid sues IMNA/WTC becasue they didn't provide a safe enough venue to have their kids run across the finish line with them

IMNA/WTC is in a lose lose situation here. It's in teh rules but people keep doing it. Stopping people at thsi point would mean significant physical interaction. I.E. Stopping people and escorting them off the course. This of course would all happen within the chute and probably cause an even more dangerous situation. The alternative, cave and try to create as safe of a situation as possible, I.E. Kid pen. The problem is now everyone is bitching because "They're condoning it".

~Matt

Ahh so your real name is Ashton Kutcher.

~Matt

Maybe, Mark, but it's tough when (a) there is an official way to do it that's announced and printed and (b) there are so many others doing it. My kids were 7 and 5 at CDA. I guess I can tell them it's against the rules, but it rings kind of hollow. Those little critters were out there most of the day, seriously cheering me and everyone else on in 100ish heat*. I guess I'm passing the buck here, but IMNA should ban it (and certainly shouldn't sanction it), or the rules should be changed. I don't want to have to explain the nuances to my young kids (you know, situational ethics, moral relativism, etc). :)

*I know, it was selfish of me to have them there at all, but someone else busted my chops earlier this week when I suggested that it would be a relief not to have them there at IMF.

JD

Hmmm or maybe they are trying to create as safe of a situation as possible and keep as many of the rule breakers happy without getting their asses sued off.

IMO, it not only looks A LOT like "condoning", but it highly resembles "encouraging".

How can it be against the rules? They have a "family loading pen" *right there* (pointing to it)?

The governing body is willfully ignoring the situation. They won't after I perform the Queen Mother of all family finish photos involving hairy cheerleaders, a civil war cannon, my old Teddy Ruxpin bear (with RATT tape in it), Evil Kinevil, my exhumed great uncle Bobby, David Blaine, my son's Albert Pujol's wristbands, and 300,000 bottle rockets strapped in a chain-link fence, and one rubber ducky (and of course my 2.5 kids, wife, 3 dogs, 2 cats, 6 nieces, 2 nephews, 3 brothers-in-law -- 2 of em will be hammered -- my 2 father-in-laws, my sister, and of course my well-deserving parents). I'm gonna set the Louisville sky on fire, baby! If I don't, then the whole thing would have just been a waste of my time, and my family sacrificed much to see this finish. I owe it to them. Okay, I'm just getting stupid at the end of a long day.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Next ST SMACKDOWN! Who can get the most family members/friends/dogs/cats(fuck cats)/midgets/ etc in one finish photo.

"IMO, it not only looks A LOT like "condoning", but it highly resembles "encouraging"."

Like I said, what are they supposed to do? Leave it the way it is and get sued because they didn't do anything? Start tossing people over the fence if they come onto the course and wait to get sued for runing someone's raceing exeperiance? IMHO they are CYA'ing as best they can.

Like I said lose, lose, lose situation for IMNA/WTC.

~Matt

"It won't be long however before an actual athlete runs over someones kid and the parent of that kid sues IMNA/WTC becasue they didn't provide a safe enough venue to have their kids run across the finish line with them"

They just banned tag and dodge ball at my kids elementary school over fear of injury and litigation. I think the chance of an injury with 14 kids blocking the finish line while a person is going for a Kona slot or a PR after 140 miles is higher then a kid playing tag on the playground. It is just a matter of time before somebody gets hurt and thinks they need to get paid.
Dave

"The governing body is willfully ignoring the situation. They won't after I perform the Queen Mother of all family finish photos involving hairy cheerleaders, a civil war cannon, my old Teddy Ruxpin bear (with RATT tape in it), Evil Kinevil, my exhumed great uncle Bobby, David Blaine, my son's Albert Pujol's wristbands, and 300,000 bottle rockets strapped in a chain-link fence, and one rubber ducky (and of course my 2.5 kids, wife, 3 dogs, 2 cats, 6 nieces, 2 nephews, 3 brothers-in-law -- 2 of em will be hammered -- my 2 father-in-laws, my sister, and of course my well-deserving parents). I'm gonna set the Louisville sky on fire, baby! If I don't, then the whole thing would have just been a waste of my time, and my family sacrificed much to see this finish. I owe it to them. Okay, I'm just getting stupid at the end of a long day. "

That is some funny stuff. When is your expected finish? I need to make sure I am finished and waiting, or at least near the turnaround so I can see this.

If an issue is so evenly split as this one appears to be, I've always found that the best course of action is to fall on the side of prohibition.

If only a few people where whining about kids in the chute then I'd put that down to the whiny people factor...there are a few wherever you go and will complain about absolutely anything. When the room is split and half the people there are upset with your behavior, then you're probably doing something wrong or inconsiderate.

The best solution would be to have a mock up finish line somewhere past the chute for photos where people can drag their offspring back anbd forward will nilly until they get the shot they want.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

seeing that might even be worth the trip to KY

They just banned tag and dodge ball at my kids elementary school over fear of injury and litigation.

Absolutely the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Chalk up another victory for FEAR.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

What are they supposed to do? Put a banner on the top of every IM web page, a notice on every single piece of paper that a racer receives during check in, and announce at the very start of each of the pre-race meetings that they're going to enforce the rules and that non-athletes are prohibited from entering the race course at any point, including the finish line. Any athlete that violates the rules is immediately DQ'd as a gross safety violation.

Now, although I'll appear hypocritical, I'll say that my 11 year old son crossed the line with me at IMLP. My father had hyped the idea to my son. He didn't seem all that interested and was actually concerned about it. He was worried he wouldn't be able to keep up with me, etc. So we had a discussion about it. I told him not to worry about it. I shared my thoughts and told him honestly that I didn't know if I wanted him to cross with me. I also told him that if he did, there were some things he had to pay attention to, including staying right by my side and clearing the finish line as soon as we crossed.

The evening before the race, we had decided that he wasn't going to do it. He was actually relieved. Having learned about the pen at the athletes' meeting, though, I told him if he changed his mind during the day, to tell my wife and she'd get him set up. Well, during the course of the day, he got caught up in the excitement of the whole event and with watching others finish. As I came around the curve, he jumped out of the pen and ran beside me through the line. I watched in front and behind us to ensure that we were spaced well from those around us. No issues, but that's because I paid attention to threads like this.

While I don't think non-athletes should be allowed down the finish chute, that's not the way things are. Like an earlier poster, I'm not going to try and explain those nuances to my 11-year old. He sees others doing it, he sees that IMNA organizes it and facilitates family members crossing the line, it looks fun. Why shouldn't he be able to do it? If the rule was even remotely enforced, my son wouldn't have crossed with me. But the rule and IMNA's actions are mutually exclusive.

To say that enforcing the rule is a losing situation for IMNA because people will sue because IMNA ruined their race experience is an absurd argument. Do people sue when they don't make the swim or bike cutoff? Do they sue if they get DQ'd for not wearing their helmet out of T1? Do they sue for getting penalties or DQ'd for drafting? All of those would pretty much ruin your race. But they don't get sued because the rules are set in advance and you agree to abide by them when you sign up for the race.

The problem as I see it is not that people bring family across the line, it's the people who do it that are inconsiderate to other racers. And you can't legistlate manners. So, when people can't police themselves, then ban it. I am with you.

In that case, I'm going to reinstate the 3 female bodybuilders and ALL 302 students at my school, led by the top fundraising student that earned the prized "finish photo with the principal" award, and my cousin holding a boom box playing Megadeath's '99 Ways to Die', that I previously omitted. =)

I don't see a big deal with two finishing chutes (if enforcing the rule is an unaccomplishable feat) ... and I don't get how breaking this rule is basically accepted, but just don't let someone run without a shirt and/or IPOD.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

I saw this too.

Sorry if I'm being over-the-line cynical, but........

a) Just about everyone with proper brain chemistry loves their family as much as you do.

b) everyone's family is making the same sacrifice to their training as your family is to yours. (Few exceptions. unless a major media journalist is interested in your story, you apply)

c) everyone paid the same entry fee as you did, and deserves to finish with grace. How would you feel if everyone ran across with a spectator or 3? "No budging, pal. you'll get your chance to cross with your family when the 19 other families in front of you are out of the way."

d) some people take this more serious than you do. You race for 140.55 miles, and you stop to get support team? Then get out of the way, and let the people who care about their time finish how they want to.

You aren't a special snowflake, unless you're Normann. Everyone deserves to race across the finish, because *gasp* it's a race. And everyone deserves to finish the race unobstructed, because this is Triathlon, and not Rugby or the 400m Hurdles. You might be able to make a case with me you, alternatively, have the family along for the mass swim start. (Wonder what WTC would think about that?!?!)

I can't think of any other professional sport that allows spectators onto the "playing field." Anyone ever see Jerry Rice grab his kid off the sideline and run the last 5 yards of a touchdown with him? How about Mark Spitz? Lance? Carl Lewis? ..............Dale Earnheart?

When I do my IM, I'm going give it 100% to the finish line whether it happens in 9 or 16 hours, and if I have to do a track-style hurdle over your 6 year old, I'll make it look good for the cameras.

Where is your common sense? Do you take your kids anywhere else full grown men pumped full of adrenaline, testosterone, accelerade, and GU are running at a dead sprint?

And lastly, do you want anyone to call you a jerk(or perhaps worse) in front of your family? Because the chances will be good, and they just might be right.

/Flame Off.

/Out of breath

Dusty Baker's kid nearly got killed in the World Series a few years ago when he was playing bat boy....but I agree with everything else you said.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill