Quote: "And everyone is missing the fact that this is bigger than Ironman - this is the way society is heading with everything - nobody cares about anyone else, and they only think of their own interests. Sad."

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Bingo.

Back to the IM finish, can anyone name another event during which this type of thing happens? I went to law school with a lot of married people. Not a single spouse, child, etc., went up to get a diploma with the graduate, despite the fact that they sacrificed for 3 years while the student was going through school. Honestly, I cannot think of another situation in which this type of thing happens, can you?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

There you go, thousands have crossed the line, where are the casualties? You would think there would have been a special finishers line clause in the race waiver.

Actually,

Two women in my med school class and one man in my wife's law school class did get their diploma holding on to one of their children. I also believe that I have seen a few of the TdF winners on the podium, including the final day holding one of their kids. I haven't seen one racing with their kid though :)

And for what it is worth, i have seen plenty of people alone stop at the finish line, do some stupid dance, kiss the line etc., and ruin other pics.

Just wanted to let you know.

That is what I told my wife before my first IM. I coached her about this. I finished arms high alone with my brothers in camaraderie.

Next IM I forgot to mention it. Well, my daughter (age 8) jumps the fence in LP (because she sees others doing it) and runs in with me. I cried. I smiled. I held her hand and she ran in with me. I DID still have my wits about me to look around, keep going after the line, etc. It is now my all time favorite photo in the world. I have it in various places in my offices, etc. I immediately felt bad and ashamed - then sheer joy. I wouldn't take that back for all the world! What makes me most upset was the way that I initially felt ashamed I was running in with her. That sucks, and it is only because of others who have posted things like this. How ridiculous is that?

I'll probably coach them not to do this again, but I'd wager most of the posters who find this activity awful have no children. Yes, there are lines that are crossed (like a double wide stroller stopped under the sign), but playing armchair quaterback watching is easy.
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Rod:

I remember that finisher's photo you posted here on Slowtwitch. You get a reprieve from this Finish line debate...that photo with your daughter crossing the line with you at IMLP is priceless.

Been there, done that. Although I have no problem with getting the family into the act, stopping is inconsiderate. My only photo at the finish line, 96, was me half seen because someone else was actually being interviewed or something like that right under the big board, precisely where the final photo is taken. The next time I crossed, I paid attention and slowed down a bit for the traffic.

The whole idea of bringing in others who haven't done the race, but have given support, is kind of intriguiging. I wonder what precisely is the message to oneself, the accompaniers, and the viewers. Maybe what's being expressed is obnoxious or maybe it's admirable. I don't really know, but it's not enough for me to hear this custom either praised or damned without a little substance.

rtk

[reply] You are so ignorant to the sacrifice that IM finisher's families make. [/reply]

Yeah, so families make sacrifices. They didn't sacrifice more than me, who trained for the freakin' race, so they need to get the hell out of my finisher's picture!

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Reach for what you cannot.

-Percy Cerruty

[reply]
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Rod:

I remember that finisher's photo you posted here on Slowtwitch. You get a reprieve from this Finish line debate...that photo with your daughter crossing the line with you at IMLP is priceless.[/reply]

:) Thanks. I really am torn. The main reason I coached the family NOT to do this was that it IS in the rules and that is black and white.

I don't really mind all that much anymore (it used to bother me more than it does now). If your finish line photo is important, just slow up for 10 secs if some entourage is in front of you. No big deal. I don't read into it that the guy in front is disrectful of me or other athletes. I laugh when I keep reading things like "safety" and someone will get hurt. I highly doubt that is their actual reasoning for this "disdain" and no one has ever been seriously hurt to my knowledge in perhaps 10,000 of these "crossings".

I think WTC/IMNA has studied this practice in pretty good detail. Mike Reilly probable does not want to play policeman :) and does a stellar job race after race

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Rod, personally speaking it would ruin my race is I went 14:20:25 instead of the 14:20:15 I earned.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I see this a guilt for all the time you did not spend with your family. And, taking anyone across the finish line with you does not give the time you took away from your daughter.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I am so glad I spent the time with my kids, that I dont have to have the guilt that somehow if I have them run with me across the finish line it someone gives the time back. I have never taken my kids across the finish line with me. I have no guilt. And it is just plan rude. But, if the RDs allow it, just like drafting, to each their own.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Spent 5+ hours at the finish line last night (about 6:30pm to midnight) catching runners, and pretty much saw it all. I am squarely in the camp of non-participants staying off the course, but have mellowed a bit on family coming up provided they don't interfere with anyone else.

Then the guy brought his dog with him across the line.

It took every fiber of my being not to ask the guy why he had to bring his fucking dog over the finish with him, but I bit my lip and stuck to the drill of taking care of my athlete.

His dog is ugly, too.

Congratulations to all Slowtwitch IMH athletes!

Paul

Just use photo shop and put any folks in the picture you want. It is not that hard now a days.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Erik, do you wait until someone gets knocked down, hits their head and dies before one proactively stops the rules from being broken? But, why worry about rules, the guilt has to be fixed.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

The Chicago Daily Star reports that Daniel Njenga (who finsihed 2nd place 2:07.40) is apparently upset with mens' winner Robert Cheryuit (2:07.35). The two countrymen ran together up until the last 100yds of the Chicago Marathon, when Cheryuit surged ahead for the win. In celebration, he raised hi arms and slipped on either painted logos in street or tripped on timing mat. He fell and hit his head on the cement. The medical team rushed to his aid and blocked the finish line photo crew from getting a clear photo of Mr Njenga finishing second. He couldn't be reached for comment, but his attorney said that this is BS, it happens all the time in the finish line area. My client ran his butt off in the cold and all he can show for it is finisher medal and check for $20,000. He has no picture of him crossing the line which would be cherished much longer after the money is spent. We saw it yesterday in KONA and now here in Chicago.

The last we heard is that Mayor Richard Daley is trying to close Michigan Ave on Monday at 9 AM for those who had their finsiher photos ruined could re-run the last 50 yds and get several proofs to order from. The fee is a modest $25.00 and photo costs range from 17.95 (4x6) to 119.95 (framed 8x10). Contact the 1-800-TOTAL BS to schedule finsih line run through. The mayor also indicated that you can bring up tp 10 children, parents, grandparents, neighbors, priests, policiticians and anyone else. Wives and girlfriends are not permitted in the same picture according to Illinois State Law - Ordinance 810.3 sect 2A. Polictical signs may be carried through the finish line for a $1000 do, nation to the forementioned candidate, the sign cannot exceed the dimensions 24" x 36" and must be professionally prepared. Religious statements or biblical phrases are prohibited.

Fleck, why do some of these folks bitch about the drafting rule being broken, but then break the no outside assistance rule? Oh, thats right, rules are only for others. :o)



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

The issue that I see here has more to do with consideration of others rather than a simple photo. I have finish line photos from 4 of the 5 IM races that I have done. I look like crap in all of them and they are all tossed in a box somewhere in my house. One might have actually made it into a photo albumn.

I just think that regardless of your time of finish there are people on the course that an extra 5-10 seconds "waiting" might bother. Maybe I am too much of an obsessive-compulsive nut but if I had a goal of breaking 10 hours at an IM, had trained for months to reach the goal and was falling apart and pushing myself hard at the end of the race and the clock ticked over from 9:59:58 to 10:00:05 because I had to try and run around someone with their stroller, dog, wife, grandmother, etc. I would be disappointed and upset. I wouldn't care about the finish line photo but the failure to meet my goal would bother me. It is one thing if the chute is crowded with racers and you can't get by but the other crowds are against the rules and I just feel that they shouldn't be there. I would assume the same could be said for almost anyone with a time goal when they start. If you are in an IM to race, either against others or yourself then you probably don't care much for the 3-ring circus at the finish and if you are just doing the event to complete it and don't worry about your time at all, running with anyone is probably fine with you. The reasons that people race IMs is so varied that this topic will never be agreed upon. I started it because at the time I watching the live feed and saw this guy blocking some other racers (if he had done this on the bike most everyone would have thought it was wrong) and couldn't believe how inconsiderate he was being.

As for the safety issue ..... while no one has gotten hurt yet, I sure wouldn't want to be the guy sprinting (as if I could get my legs to sprint at the end ..... so really shuffling fast) for a time goal who runs into the guy ahead (with a baby in his arms that you don't see from behind) who abruptly stops right on the finish line resulting in the first ever case of a severe "baby" injury in an IM.

Would that moment be worth all of *your* sacrifice throughout the year?

To me is about the gratification that as a family we would accomplish, and if being part of my wife unveilling the final product together with me, I would be all over it.

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Los

You are absolutely right. It will be about the memory I will give her and the positive things she can take from the experience.

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Los

I'd guess that the people who are against double wide strollers have no double wide strollers.

but crossing the finish line with my daughter would mean the world.

Why?

She didn't do the race, you did. Why not do something for HER instead?

I just don't think it's a fair trade. You spend all the time training and racing for you, and in return, she gets to have her picture taken with you.

If I were your daughter, I'd feel short changed.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

Yep, for every hour he trained and left her behind, he has to spend an hour with her!!! Thats what a real parent would do, not say this one pictures makes up for all that lost time. So funny how some think "quality" by spending money, or a picture, makes up for quantity! Nope, getting into a selfish sport like Tris should not be something someone does until the family is grown, IMO. I can spend the rest of my life on myself, but I only got a few short years to spend with my kids. Glad I made the most of it by spending hours in the ski boat with them, by going to all their school sports with them, and then when older, having us do some tri races together.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I want to weigh in that I agree with QRooster and rroof. I completed my first IM at CDA in June. I had a fairly well-known and respected coach tell me that I should enjoy the day and make sure that I run across the finish line with my kids (I had never heard about this possibility before that). My kid were very excited about this, and waited all day for me to finish (unfortunately, it took me awhile!). My kids/wife were required to get a bracelet from IMNA in order to enter the chute. I ran down with my 3 kids, all under age 7, and made sure we got out of the way when we crossed. My kids will never forget it. I am sure that no one's finish was hindered. My family was as much a part of my first IM as I was. They sacrificed more than I did.

I also agree that many/most of the vehement posters on these "finish line" threads have no children. I also would say, though, that I understand their reasoning and arguments. They have valid points. So do we. I have seen it suggested before that there be a separate chute for those with family members. I think this would be a good solution.

I want to weigh in that I agree with QRooster and rroof. I completed my first IM at CDA in June. I had a fairly well-known and respected coach tell me that I should enjoy the day and make sure that I run across the finish line with my kids (I had never heard about this possibility before that). My kid were very excited about this, and waited all day for me to finish (unfortunately, it took me awhile!). My kids/wife were required to get a bracelet from IMNA in order to enter the chute. I ran down with my 3 kids, all under age 7, and made sure we got out of the way when we crossed. My kids will never forget it. I am sure that no one's finish was hindered. My family was as much a part of my first IM as I was. They sacrificed more than I did.

I also agree that many/most of the vehement posters on these "finish line" threads have no children. I also would say, though, that I understand their reasoning and arguments. They have valid points. So do we. I have seen it suggested before that there be a separate chute for those with family members. I think this would be a good solution.

To me is about the gratification that as a family we would accomplish

I think attributing a "family accomplishment" to something one does as an individual hobby is erroneous.

My main point is take all the time we spend training and have a spouse/kids list everything that we could do in those hundreds of hours of time, and then ask them which they would rather do ... and I think we'd get all the proof we need that daddy participating in an ironman race is not how the family would choose to spend those hours.

I think we need to be up front and aware that triathlon training is a very selfish hobby. Granted we can come up with health benefits, stress release, confidence gained, etc as benefits that carryover to our parenting/husbanding, but there ar elikely many things that require less time that could be done for the same benefits AND include the family.

I think it is important that we acknowledge this so that we plan our training to be as little interfering as possible, in that it leaves time for us to be the parent, husband, that we need to be.

It confuses me when people post things that suggest their family prefers that the parent do an ironman race rather than do something "family" for 400 hours a year. Frankly I think that's horsepoop, and seemingly gives more credence to the idea that the "family finish photo" erases more guilt than it does allowing the family to celebrate a great family accomplishment. I admit it will be different for each racer's situation. Speaking for my own situation, if there hadn't have been a playground nearby my race, that would have been an incredibly long, boring daty for my 4yo. My family saw me twice on the course, and my son raced me to the finish (we were basically the only people left at the primarily sprint/oly venue). Given the choice, I'm certain he would have rather me played with him all day on the playground. That's a choice I have to live with.

In 20 years, what are children going to value more, a picture of us and them crossing the finish line, or hundreds (thousands if more than 1 IM is done) of hours together (with pictures, of course)?

The question is simple, it's the acknowledgement of the answer that we don't like. (<-IMO)

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

I'm not sure how these hours magically "translate" for all of you. I mean, almost all of my running is done before anyone even gets out of bed. Swimming while I'm at work most of the time. Lots of cool tricks for my long bike rides. Actually, my kids have NO IDEA how much time I spend training (which is a lot, yes). It is not 1:1. Even if it was, the "finish" line photo/moment has nothing to do with "make-up" and we all now that. I think most other "parents" on this board do much the same. Great article in Triathlete magazine last summer written by Jared Williams about being a child in a tri family (mother and father are AVID triathletes - locally near me too). This is not new at all as I have long said that Tri is really Quad: swim, bike, run and time. Most of my colleagues golf and spend WAY more time away from their family with that then I do.

Why would a family not want to enjoy everything that each member wants? Yes, tri is pretty self-gratifying, but not always. I certainly try to enjoy my daughter dance/tap/ballet whatever recitals and I've never missed one yet. When it is the "gals night out" or whatever, my wife gets what she wants (even if I have a workout planned). Tri is a lifestyle for most of us and the balance is tough. Maybe that is why some want their family with them? My wife and kids want me to be happy and I want that for them. Simple as that.

I actually never wanted my kids to come across with me, but THEY did (not me) and that was fine with me. I'm not sure why some guy wated his dog to come across (yes I know many consider them family, but it is still not the same no matter how hard you try). But, this is not for me to judge. It is still breaking the rules is all that I know (just like my daughter did with me).

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD