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Feedback position and CdA field testing
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Hi,
I've been trying a new position and material choices, trying to validate it with virtual elevation, and was wondering if I could gather some feedback.

First, the position in race setup (except for the empty bottle cages which I would remove):



Second, for CdA tests, I did 9 out and backs (3.5k, about 2mi total), on a calm evening along Zurich airport (440 m altitude, 16 C, 964 hPa, 5 km/h wind according to the airport weather station).
Goal was to test
a) rear wheel, RON Aeron X disc wheel vs Zipp 858.
b) helmet, MET Drone wide body vs Giro Air Attack.
Otherwise same setup as in the video, except for clothing as it was a bit coldish, see https://www.instagram.com/p/CFxRzeshHyr/, taken during cooldown.


Results in terms of time and wattage from Powertap P1 two-sided pedals are below:

(Round #8 was faster, with my twin brother drafting at 10m, to see how much it affects his CdA. #9 was with a slightly different hand position.)
Fit file is attached, which I looked at using the Aerolab Chung plugin in Golden Cheetah.


It is clear that the MET is faster than the Giro for my position, but I find it hard to draw a conclusion on the wheel (I would say slightly better for the disc, but not sure if I'm not trying to justify buying it...)


What do you think?
Jean-Claude

https://besse.info/
https://www.strava.com/athletes/2012033
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Re: Feedback position and CdA field testing [jcbesse] [ In reply to ]
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I ran the numbers very quickly and see the disc a little bit faster.
But I also see the highest wattage lap as a bit of an anomaly so needs to figure out why.

What is your weight, what kinds of CRR do you assume, what kind of PM ?
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Re: Feedback position and CdA field testing [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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Weight (rider+equipment) is 85 kg.
Crr I assumed 0.0032 but without really knowing what I should use. Tires are Gp5000 23mm front wheel (with latex inner tubes), same Gp5000+latex except 25mm rear for the 858, and Schwalbe Pro One TT tubeless 25mm for the disc wheel. All at 6.5 bar.

Power meter is two-sided Powertap P1 pedals, calibrated once just before the ride.

https://besse.info/
https://www.strava.com/athletes/2012033
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Re: Feedback position and CdA field testing [jcbesse] [ In reply to ]
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I see the average of 1,2,7,9 as .005 faster than average of 3&4 and 0.021 faster than average of 5&6

I assumed the barometric pressure you gave was local. Even if that at sea level, deltas should be similar.
Last edited by: marcag: Oct 4, 20 12:34
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Re: Feedback position and CdA field testing [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, that goes in the same direction as my analysis (helmet difference about 3-4x the wheel one).


marcag wrote:
But I also see the highest wattage lap as a bit of an anomaly so needs to figure out why.
I also don't know, tried to simply push harder without changing my position. Maybe I should have done a second run, but as I said it was more to see the savings of the rider behind me (and those were very obvious).

https://besse.info/
https://www.strava.com/athletes/2012033
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Re: Feedback position and CdA field testing [jcbesse] [ In reply to ]
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It was only one run, so the data can not be trusted but it would show the guy drafting slowed you down.

But it could be a factor of things. I think you need to go out, do it again for science :-)
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Re: Feedback position and CdA field testing [jcbesse] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for sharing.

Based on my rough, elementary calculations, the disc saved you on ave 2s per run compared to the 858 at the same power, or roughly 20s/40km at your speed of >42kph.
This equates to around 3-4w saving, which is in the ballpark of what Jean-Paul Ballard (SwissSide's testing) has claimed a disc will save you compared to a "good" 80mm rear wheel, being 2w at 45km/h. (I tend to think this is more accurate than Aero-Coach's claimed 7w difference for their disc).

So your data seems pretty good and reliable...

By the way, what are your thoughts on the Aeron-X - handling, stiffness, build quality, etc? Do you think the hex skin is a benefit or looks gimmicky? I've been looking at this wheel and other Ron discs for a while, and your data is the first I've actually seen. The fact that your data shows its faster than an 858 and in line with what one would expect for any good disc wheels has me even more interested...
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Re: Feedback position and CdA field testing [SAvan] [ In reply to ]
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It's my first time riding a disc wheel, so I cannot compare with more established brands, but the feeling is really good (and it's likely to be my wheel of choice for most triathlons next year).

The wheel shows more inertia than the Zipp (maybe less fast/snappy accelerating, but also carries more speed when coasting right before a turn), and I feel it slightly when the roads goes up (not by much, but noticeable). I can only suppose any disc would be similar.

Handling is excellent, no complaints here. Had one ride with side winds where it took a little while to get used to (but seemed to be sailing quite well). It's been very predictable in general. On calm day and straight lines I couldn't really notice which wheel I'm riding.

Rigidity is good as well, tried a few 500-600 W sections out of the saddle and no brake rub.

Stickers or little finish points (came with two tiny scratches on this hexagonal pattern, pump adapter is to schrader instead of a more useful presta, etc) could be slightly cleaner but at the price I won't complain.

The hex pattern profile is very low, not sure it's helping much. I don't have any data to say whether this feeling is correct or not though.

https://besse.info/
https://www.strava.com/athletes/2012033
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Re: Feedback position and CdA field testing [jcbesse] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. your comments about the handling and inertia are what you would expect with any high-end disc (I previously had a Zipp Super-9...). For the cost you can't complain. Seems very good value.
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