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Favorite track workouts for IM'ers
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I'll be doing my third IM in as many years and I have never done any structured track work. Can anyone out there tell me if this is a vital part of your plan and if so can you give me an example of what type and when in your program do you insert these types of workouts.







What the mind can conceive and believe, the body will achieve.
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [jkmorrow] [ In reply to ]
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Track ???? What do you need track for an ironman ? If you run at 3:30 marathon pace, this is totally studly in any iMNA event. Typically less than 5% of the field runs this fast. Do you know what this equates to ??? 50 min per 10K. This is dead slow when running fresh or even a long run Sunday after a 6 hour hammerfest ride on Sat. You have to be able to run 5 min per K till the cows come home. You don't need track for this. What you need is strength and endurance and most imporantly mega bike fitness. In 2003, I ran 2:59 at Boston and 1:25 in a half ironman. Guess what I ran at Ironman LP ? 3:55. That's right, 3:55 or 9 min per mile or just under 60 min per 10 K pace and I DID NOT WALK A STEP during the Ironman run. Running speed and ironman running speed are somewhat uncorrelated if you trash yourself on the bike. So spend time doing long sustained bike intervals at above iRonman race speed so your legs get used to it. Then you'll be better off during the run than spending time on the track.



If you are planning to run sub 3:15 in an ironman, you do need to intervals of some sort.
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [jkmorrow] [ In reply to ]
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If your PR for a marathon isn't under 3:30:00 (for a straight marathon, not an IM split) you are probably not ready to hit the track to improve your Ironman run.

The run at the end of Ironman isn't about speed for most people. It is about damage control. First you have to become a "durable" athlete. That takes a few seasons I think. Then you can work on becoming fast.

The time spent at the track for Ironman run is better spent on long tempo runs and long bricks I think. Then again, who am I to say- fastest IM I've ever done is 10:42 something.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Tom, you've been around enough and seen enough IM guys through your store to know what you are talking about. 10:42 is a fine time.
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [jkmorrow] [ In reply to ]
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I love the track because in high school my races were 100m, 4 X 100m relay and (as my "long run")200m. Our tri group running coach has weekly track sessions and will do 200 m drills once in awhile. I'm as slow as molasses over a 10 kms but even at my age I can still be at the front on a 200m sprint in our tri group, even though I'm BOP in any long run.

These 200m drills are great for my middle aged ego, but from a practical point of view, I would really wonder if these 200 m speed drills mean anything to the training for a marathoner or any other distance runner.
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Cervelo guy. I ran 100s, 200s and 400s in high school. I have lost only twice in a sprint finish in 19 years of tris when I was neck and neck with a guy 50 m from the finish. Is there value in an Ironman. Highly unlikely, unless you are in a sprint finish for a KONA spot. The last time I needed my sprint was in Wildflower 1996. I was closing on a guy big time during the run and hammered down the huge hill to th finish line. I ran out of real estate and the guy beat me to KONA by 8 seconds ! Again, this was in a half Ironman. I am unsure how much of a sprint anyone can muster at the end of an Ironman, so 200's are largely useless for ironman training and the injury potential is high. If you are running sub 3:15 in an Ironman then 1 mile repeats at ~6:30 mile would be good. Although this is faster than Ironman race pace, the perceived exertion running at 3:15 off the bike will be similar, cadence will be similar, just a shorter stride length.
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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It's all about the quest for the single digit. It won't happen anytime soon, but it will happen.....

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for your input on this subject...I was able to do a 4:06 at IMLP last year and that was with 7 stops ( I know, I know why did you stop) to "relieve" myself. I was able to do this all at my upper Z1 and lower Z2 pace. I really think that the key to a good run at IM is strong bike conditioning. As mentioned, my main focus this year will be to get stronger on the bike. By the way, I thought Tom D. was going to fall over yesterday at his shop when I told him that I had "STOPPED" to pee.







What the mind can conceive and believe, the body will achieve.
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [jkmorrow] [ In reply to ]
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Stopping to pee? In a race? Isn't that like racing on clinchers? You can do it, but why? ;-)
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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Hie hie... nice one!

Tom, so tell us your secret to doing "on the go..."... :-)

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For one who has no objective, nothing is relevant. (Confucius)
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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Eric, I knew I was going to catch some grief from you guys but thats okay...this year at LP I'll remember this and just keep on running. I just feel bad for the guys behind me;)







What the mind can conceive and believe, the body will achieve.
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [jkmorrow] [ In reply to ]
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Just try to time it so you are right before an aid station. Then you can get some water for a quick rinse.
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [postmanpat] [ In reply to ]
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Ahh, not much of a secret to peeing on the bike or the run. Just take a courtesy glance behind yo and let 'er rip.

A couple notes on good tactical peeing:

- I learned in the military. We would do road marches where we were on a strict schedule and carrying a ton of weight. It was better to just pull your dick out and kind of pee while you were tabbing along.

-Peeing off the bike takes practice. Be sure to grip your bars near the center, close to the stem, and look well up the road before you start. Moderate, straight, smooth descent is the best. One hand on the bars one hand to aim your Sir Thomas. I find over the shorts is best. With tri shorts.

- When you pee on your bike watch out for the tops of your water bottles. Nasty.

- Peeing on the run takes practice.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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A friend and former co-worker of mine was racing Ironman in Kona a few years ago and found himself riding behind one of the top female pros. He said he was admiring the view when it seemed like it had started to rain. He thought man it is hot out here, even the rain is warm!

then he realized............"thats not rain!!!!!"
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [jkmorrow] [ In reply to ]
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In short - the other posts are right. IM is about strength and not slowing down in the 2nd half of the marathon. However you can build strength by running hills, lots of them and IF you are en experienced runner then try mile repeats, but they don't need to be on the track, a nice dirt path will do - 1 minute rest - do them at 10k pace - nothing too hard - this is just to teach your body to deal with the mental side of racing. The mile repeats get hard when you get up to 9-10 etc - as tough as the last miles of the marathon in an IM - but tempo runs are safer and I only use mile repeats with a very experienced athlete.

Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [jkmorrow] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with the other posters that for many track work-outs in the formal sense will NOT advance their fitness or performance for an IM run.

If you come from a running back ground or you are running under 8:00 min/miles then Longer track work-outs that are done at slightlky faster than tempo pace with minimal recovery may be helpful.

Where I think that track can be a really useful is in gauging pace - this is true for the newcomer and the vet. If you do a mile - you will know exactly how fast you ran that mile - 6:30, 7:35 etc . .I say this with respect, but many triathletes have no clue about pace at the best of times - after cycling 112 miles their sense of pace can be even further distorted.

My fav use of the track when specifically prepping for an IM was as follows: Secret Brick Workout #1 ride 3 - 4 hours hard then go right to the track and roll right into 6 - 8 X 1 mile repeats right at LT pace or slightly faster( for me at the time 5:30 - 6:00 min/mile) with one lap jog recovery. Secret Brick Workout #2 ride 3 - 4 hour hard then roll right into a 2 hour run swing by the track during the first hour and do a couple of miles on the track and ensure that I am running at exactly 7:00 min/mile( IM goal race pace). Swing by the track in the second hour and ensure that I am running at 6:30 min/mile. The rest of the run other than the few miles on the track would be on the road/trail. Purpose - get that IM race pace dialed in exactly.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Don't listen to Fleck. The man is a freak of nature. At IMC 1991, the man ran 2:48 or so, albeit on a slightly short course (around 2 miles short), when Bustos and Mike McCormack both ran in the low 2:30's. Either way, running within 15 min of Bustos in his day, was no small feat. I do agree with Fleck that knowing pace is key. I can tell go out and run for 40 min at 4 min/k perceived pace and go out and measure the course with my car or bike and be within meters of hitting it bang on !

Sadly, I also know what a 60 min 10K pace feels like from too many ultra slow Ironman runs caused by poor bike prep, poor race day nutrition and poor race day execution :-). Besides the days out on an Ironman course, I never run slower than 5 min/k :-).
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Quite to the contrary, Fleck's fourth paragraph contains a very good idea of what it takes -- using the track as a guide to measure pace -- to improve and excel in the marathon at an Ironman-distance race.

You can shy away from the work for whatever reason (most do), but there is no substitute for a combination of the double-bricks and measured hard work on the track, specifically including mile repeats w/400 recovery jogs.

-Mike
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [mpl201] [ In reply to ]
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Last season was the first that I have ever done where I avoided the track for most of the summer and concentrated on running a little tempo off the bike. My belief is that running repeat miles is a total waste of time for ironman racing. My plan for this year will see me doing some track work with no repeats longer than 800m in April and May to get my stride back and build a little speed (completely gone after a winter of sloshing around in the snow and ice) prior to really heaping on the distance work that I will need for Kona. My favourite track workout is to ride 70-80k hard then go to the track and run 20 x 400m in 72-75 with 1 minute recovery between each. This type of speed work improves the efficiency of your gait. In an ironman, this type of speed is wasted so I won't bother to go to the track for anything other than strides to loosen up once June arrives. At IMFL last November, my first mile was 6:12 oops too much speed?, I was 40 minutes at 10k and 1:29:11 at half way and feeling fine .... by mile 17 my quads were cramping and my hamstring seized really badly at mile 20 so I had to walk it off and stretch a little. I ended up running a 3:12 which is pretty fast ironman running but not very fast "normal" running. My point? My speed failed me big time on the second half of the run and I was able to close as well as I did because I was using my strength to keep on moving. My last mile I tried to summon my "speed" and really crank it up and ended up running a 7:45 or so .... do 72 second 400s help with that? Nope, but lots of miles on the bike with runs after do. My $0.02.
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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Allan,

That's a great run split at IMFL. Congratulations.

However, from your split times, I am guessing that you gave up about 10 minutes and a dead even split( 3:00 - 3:05) by going out too fast in the first 10K. Hence, my suggestion above that the track is a good place to get IM race pace dialled in during long brick work-outs. The fatigue in your legs, and the adrenaline of leaving T2 can completely distort ones' sense of pace. For you, you have to be able to run 7:00 min miles like a metronome, with 112 miles of bike fatigue in your legs. That's what you need to shoot for. It's about great bike fitness, great run fitness and knowing absolutly what your pace is.

If you can run the second half of your IM marathon run split at the same pace or slightly faster than your first half - you will really move up in the standings. Everyone is fading BIG TIME.

I had a knack for this and I can't tell you how many people would pass me in the first few miles of an IM run eventhough I was locked in on 7:00 min/mile pace. In variably, they would be falling apart by mile 15 and I would move on past them.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Favorite track workouts for IM'ers [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Fleck

I actually can go to the track and hand you my watch and be within a second per 400 if you ask to run a 70, 75, 80, 90 second quarter and can run a 7 minute mile bang on when required (except that darn last mile at IMFL!). I've been a runner for 26 years now. I've been experimenting with my IM pace (IMFL was my 3rd) and am confident that I can run a sub-3 when I get everything else put together. One of the problems with my IMFL race was that I did the ride 7 minutes faster than planned and, like you indicated, went out hard to blast away from the maggots that passed me 3k from the finish riding in a big pack so it was a little foolish. However, I believe that repeat miles on the track are not as effective as just going out for tempo runs on a measured route since you have to be able to guage your effort over different types of terrain. As I mentioned before (and being an old track runner the track is my comfort area) I like to use the track early in the season to get my stride length and cruising speed back but think that tempo after hard bike rides is the way to go for ironman.
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