Fastest 70.3 race

Feb 8, 19 3:40

Post #1 of 23 (4408 views)

Hi all,

I'm looking for a tool to determine the fastest 70.3. I know trirating.com has one for IM distance, and that obstri.com has both a difficulty filter and you can compare times of up to 3 races, but with 150+ IM 70.3 distance races alone, it would be nice with a better overview/filter/graph.

But i would also just like to hear what your thoughts on the easiest/fastest 70.3 race is (that actually is 70.3):
Criteria:
* Must be wetsuit legal
* Not having a history of getting the S/B/R cancelled due to hurricanes/floods/sandstorms etc.
* Relatively easy to travel to
* Late 2019 (sep+) or early 2020
* "Correct distance" (atleast not something that from IM side is labeled as too short/too long *cough* IM Frankfurt *cough*

So far some of the races i have looked at would be Bahrain or Turkey. Especially in the US i'm uncertain what could be a good alternative?

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [lassekk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 4:03

Post #2 of 23 (4372 views)

I doubt anything is faster than 70.3Augusta.
It’s the correct distance but the river current is good for 10min saved on the swim.

If I did that race, I would not consider my time as PR

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 4:09

Post #3 of 23 (4359 views)

KingMidas wrote:

I doubt anything is faster than 70.3 Augusta.
It’s the correct distance but the river current is good for 10min saved on the swim.

If I did that race, I would not consider my time as PR

The swim is around 3-4 minutes faster than Bahrain, Turkey and Elsinore, but overall way slower: +30 mins for both median male AG time and 25% fastest AG'ers. But it is place in an appealing place for travel.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [lassekk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 4:33

Post #4 of 23 (4308 views)

I don't think median and mean times translate well across continents. In US races I usually place significantly higher in my AG than in Europe. Look around in transition and you'll notice a big difference in the types of athletes that are competing.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 4:58

Post #5 of 23 (4257 views)

BigBoyND wrote:

I don't think median and mean times translate well across continents. In US races I usually place significantly higher in my AG than in Europe. Look around in transition and you'll notice a big difference in the types of athletes that are competing.

How would you go about it then? Median is ofcourse skewed if a lot less fit people compete in the US, you could look at 20% fastest times too, as they would probably be in great shape across the continents?

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [lassekk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 5:25

Post #6 of 23 (4212 views)

Ironman Dubai 70.3 fits all your criteria.

Distance is accurate, but especially fast course due to:

Wetsuit legal, and slightly helping current on the swim (but can be slow if windy and there is wind chop);
Flat bike (200m climbing) on perfect, smooth highway roads. Course not completely closed to traffic so you do get some drafting "help" from vehicle traffic in adjacent lane. Usually a super tailwind on the second half (we talking 45kph+ average speed for the second half). Bike is a draft fest though... :(
Run is FLAT on a rubberized running track along the beach promenade.
Race is early Feb, so cool conditions (low-mid 20s C). Sunny with NO chance of rain, haha!

And I should add race organization and before and after dinners are excellent.

No history of any legs being cancelled, but this year a sand storm hit the city 2 days after the race which would have been a disaster, so there is always a risk.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 5:29

Post #7 of 23 (4207 views)

Looking at Augusta on ObsTri site, and comparing to Gulf Coast 70.3 and Florida 70.3.

Top 5% males:
Augusta 4:43:21
Gulf Coast 4:39:08
Florida 4:39:53

top 25% males:
Augusta 5:31:08
Gulf Coast 5:27:10
Florida 5:15:14

Median Males:
Augusta 6:10:09
Gulf Coast 6:11:26
Florida 5:53:49

It would appear Florida and Gulf Coast are faster (and GC had a pretty hot run last year as well) The amount of time you gain on the swim in Augusta, you lose on the bike to those two flat courses.

ETA: Both Florida 70.3 and GC 70.3 would meet the early 2020 criteria and are reasonably easy, especially Florida 70.3, to get to. Gulf Coast did have the swim cancelled in 2017, but I don't *think* its a regular occurance. Being a lake swim, I don't think Florida 70.3 would have much risk of a swim cancellation.

Last edited by: MRid: Feb 8, 19 5:35

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [lassekk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 6:08

Post #8 of 23 (4119 views)

Does it have to be Ironman branded?

If not, Montreal Esprit has to be up there. It's not the most exciting of races and I'm not sure of how precise the distances are but:

Swim is in an enclosed rowing basin, so you're essentially swimming in a large pool;
Bike is laps of a relatively flat F1 race course. Fast racers will be overlapping slower racers, giving you some beneficial drafts;
Run is laps around the rowing basin (so completely flat).

Travel is easy since it's right off the island of Montreal. The race is pretty mind numbing given the number of laps (21 laps on the bike), but it does make it more family/spectator friendly.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [MRid] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 6:56

Post #9 of 23 (4026 views)

I have raced GC once and Augusta twice. The challenge with those is the heat. So, your performance will depend greatly on how your body handles heat in the run. Plan on ~90° and humid.

August has not been wetsuit legal the last two years. But, historically it has been wetsuit legal. Even when not, the swim is insanely fast. The bikes are both very fast, with GC faster. Both runs are flat, but hot-- GC is hotter.

Another to look it is Chattanooga 70.3. That swim is also very fast, and the bike is not as flat but reasonably fast. The run in Chattanooga has some hills, but the overall conditions are way friendlier. I have run way faster in Chattanooga than Augusta in the same condition.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 7:13

Post #10 of 23 (3991 views)

exxxviii wrote:

I have raced GC once and Augusta twice. The challenge with those is the heat. So, your performance will depend greatly on how your body handles heat in the run. Plan on ~90° and humid.

August has not been wetsuit legal the last two years. But, historically it has been wetsuit legal. Even when not, the swim is insanely fast. The bikes are both very fast, with GC faster. Both runs are flat, but hot-- GC is hotter.

Another to look it is Chattanooga 70.3. That swim is also very fast, and the bike is not as flat but reasonably fast. The run in Chattanooga has some hills, but the overall conditions are way friendlier. I have run way faster in Chattanooga than Augusta in the same condition.

The heat in Augusta is the equalizer for sure. Save ten minutes in the swim only to lose way more than that on the run due to cramping or overheating. I saw lots of people suffering through the run last year.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [lassekk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 7:17

Post #11 of 23 (3984 views)

Challenge Daytona 70.3 on Dec 15

Speculating here because the inaugural race was shortened due to weather but it shapes up to be a very fast course.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [MRid] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 7:33

Post #12 of 23 (3942 views)

MRid wrote:

Looking at Augusta on ObsTri site, and comparing to Gulf Coast 70.3 and Florida 70.3.

Top 5% males:
Augusta 4:43:21
Gulf Coast 4:39:08
Florida 4:39:53

top 25% males:
Augusta 5:31:08
Gulf Coast 5:27:10
Florida 5:15:14

Median Males:
Augusta 6:10:09
Gulf Coast 6:11:26
Florida 5:53:49

It would appear Florida and Gulf Coast are faster (and GC had a pretty hot run last year as well) The amount of time you gain on the swim in Augusta, you lose on the bike to those two flat courses.

ETA: Both Florida 70.3 and GC 70.3 would meet the early 2020 criteria and are reasonably easy, especially Florida 70.3, to get to. Gulf Coast did have the swim cancelled in 2017, but I don't *think* its a regular occurance. Being a lake swim, I don't think Florida 70.3 would have much risk of a swim cancellation.

I haven’t done gulf coast but I’ve done 70.3FL several times and Augusta once. There is no way 70.3FL is faster. The swim is slower, the bike is much more hillier, and the run is hillier. 70.3FL is NOT flat!
I don’t know why the average times are not showing it, but it’s possible it depends on the turnout. It’s possible that because of the easy swim, more first timers and slower folks show up.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 7:41

Post #13 of 23 (3923 views)

KingMidas wrote:

I haven’t done gulf coast but I’ve done 70.3FL several times and Augusta once. There is no way 70.3FL is faster. The swim is slower, the bike is much more hillier, and the run is hillier. 70.3FL is NOT flat!
I don’t know why the average times are not showing it, but it’s possible it depends on the turnout. It’s possible that because of the easy swim, more first timers and slower folks show up.

I don't know, I'm just looking at the #'s. And looking at the top 5%, which should theoretically filter out first timers, or at least not fast first timers, Florida 70.3 consistently beats Augusta. I looked at 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 and Florida wins every single one. Same with top 10%, Florida wins every single year. Florida has a faster bike and run that Augusta. Maybe because it's early enough in the year that wind/heat is not an issue, not sure.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 8:01

Post #14 of 23 (3868 views)

KingMidas wrote:

MRid wrote:

It would appear Florida and Gulf Coast are faster (and GC had a pretty hot run last year as well) The amount of time you gain on the swim in Augusta, you lose on the bike to those two flat courses.

ETA: Both Florida 70.3 and GC 70.3 would meet the early 2020 criteria and are reasonably easy, especially Florida 70.3, to get to. Gulf Coast did have the swim cancelled in 2017, but I don't *think* its a regular occurance. Being a lake swim, I don't think Florida 70.3 would have much risk of a swim cancellation.

I haven’t done gulf coast but I’ve done 70.3FL several times and Augusta once. There is no way 70.3FL is faster. The swim is slower, the bike is much more hillier, and the run is hillier. 70.3FL is NOT flat!
I don’t know why the average times are not showing it, but it’s possible it depends on the turnout. It’s possible that because of the easy swim, more first timers and slower folks show up.

I have done each race 2 or more times. Florida 70.3 is easily the slowest of the three. I would also say it is the most competitive and attracts many folks from outside the region looking for an early 70.3 WC slot and/or a spring vacation to Disney. The Obs Tri rankings assumes they same level of competitiveness at each race and it simply isn't so. In order of easy to hard, it would be Augusta, Gulf Coast, and Florida 70.3. All are susceptible to heat, but there is a chance that Florida 70.3 could benefit from a last gasp "cold front" that reaches down to Central Florida in early April. In a good weather year, the cool air would make Florida the fastest of the three although it is easily the hardest of the three courses under consideration.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [MRid] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 8:08

Post #15 of 23 (3846 views)

I’m not sure how Florida 70.3 would be faster than Augusta, Chattanooga. North Carolina or Ohio 70.3? I would think the fastest in North America would be North Carolina with a current assisted ocean swim with the incoming tide, a flat bike and a flat run all in mid October so you aren’t baking like Augusta or Chattanooga (Yes Chattanooga is hot as it was a heat index of 100 last year and it was 92 degrees the day before the 2017 race before the storm hit and took the temperature down).

Dubai 70.3 is probably the fastest internationally and perhaps worldwide.

MRid wrote:

KingMidas wrote:

I haven’t done gulf coast but I’ve done 70.3FL several times and Augusta once. There is no way 70.3FL is faster. The swim is slower, the bike is much more hillier, and the run is hillier. 70.3FL is NOT flat!
I don’t know why the average times are not showing it, but it’s possible it depends on the turnout. It’s possible that because of the easy swim, more first timers and slower folks show up.

I don't know, I'm just looking at the #'s. And looking at the top 5%, which should theoretically filter out first timers, or at least not fast first timers, Florida 70.3 consistently beats Augusta. I looked at 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 and Florida wins every single one. Same with top 10%, Florida wins every single year. Florida has a faster bike and run that Augusta. Maybe because it's early enough in the year that wind/heat is not an issue, not sure.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [lassekk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 8:09

Post #16 of 23 (3837 views)

I think you will see some very fast times at the new 70.3 Virginia race. What made that race hard in the past was the mid-July date. First week in May in the Mid Atlantic is usually at least tolerable.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [lassekk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 8:10

Post #17 of 23 (3836 views)

How about Calgary 70.3? I appears to have pretty quick times...

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [lassekk] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 8:13

Post #18 of 23 (3824 views)

lassekk wrote:

How would you go about it then? Median is ofcourse skewed if a lot less fit people compete in the US, you could look at 20% fastest times too, as they would probably be in great shape across the continents?

If I'm looking at multiple courses in vastly different competitive regions, I look for racers who have done them. I can tell you IM Wisconsin is faster and easier than IM Nice, for example. Means/medians may not tell the same story. I trust n=3 personal comparisons over means of n=2000 in that case. Granted, if the races are in the same region, then the means/medians are better.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [MRid] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 8:36

Post #19 of 23 (3784 views)

Interesting figures

If I remember well, median male time in Vichy IM70.3 were around 5:30 (2017) and 5:25 (2018)

And top 5% male is 4:30

Last edited by: Pyrenean Wolf: Feb 8, 19 9:01

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 8:44

Post #20 of 23 (3754 views)

So that gave me the idea of looking at USAT par times. In this case it would appear that Augusta is faster as they have a faster par time for 2017 & 2018. So it would appear that faster people just consistently show up in bigger numbers for a Florida.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [MRid] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 8:52

Post #21 of 23 (3723 views)

Augusta has an insane amount of first timers (and only timers) and a lot of slower people. The mean times will get thrown off pretty quick there.

I've done it twice. Like others said you are getting 3-4 min on the swim if you are a decent swimmer. Closer to 10 minutes for a slow swimmer.

The bike has some hills but it still typically pretty fast. The run is super flat. In 2012 we had perfect weather but 2016 was terribly hot.

It's still one of the fastest around overall though.

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [integrator] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 8:54

Post #22 of 23 (3713 views)

That’s why I was looking at top 5% and not mean or median. My assumption was the fast guys would be similar at both. Apparently that assumption was wrong though

Re: Fastest 70.3 race [sfjab] [ In reply to ]

Feb 8, 19 8:56

Post #23 of 23 (3706 views)

sfjab wrote:

How about Calgary 70.3? I appears to have pretty quick times...

This would fall into a short course. I think the bike is only 85-86km. It'd still be fast if they make the bike a full 90 but would probably add 5-8 min to the 2018 times.

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