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FTP long time stuck
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Anyone been stuck on the same FTP year over and actually break through to increase their power? I know the body has its limits, but maxing out on 7hr bike weeks with triathlon training, i have struggled to increase FTP. Trainer road has me at 260ish give or take so im not exactly my name-sake but surely i have more in me. I have done everything from v02 to sweetspot etc millions of times over. I have also dug myself into holes trying. Now im not a bad cyclist despite the power number and tend to be front pack in terms of bike splits, but no where near the peaky top end folk around here.
Is there merit in taking an offseason of, say, an 8 week block of no run/swim and just belt out 12hr weeks on the bike? I hear conflicting stuff with offseason focused plans?
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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Very doubtful you are anywhere near your potential riding 7 hours per week. If you just want to improve your cycling FTP, get at least 12 hours a week in with at least 3 long rides per month (5+ hours). I'd be surprised if you couldn't add 30 watts to your FTP, but I wouldn't expect that kind of improvement in 8 weeks.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [bluto] [ In reply to ]
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thats the problem, 12hrs riding id be too stuffed for run/swim. 7hrs is all im playing with and perhaps the volume isnt enough your right, i guess something has to give

As for workouts i have done everything from trainerroad sweetspot plan, sustained build as well as oly high volume. So thats a lot of v02 once a week, threshold another, sweetspot and long easy.

Currently doing a mix of over/unders (eg 3x9mins@ 1min@95%, 2mins@ 108%), another workout could be 5x6mins@ 108%. Long rides usually aorund 90kms give or take, often with tempo mixed in. The rest is zone 2 or recovery.

I feel like my ftp has maxed out on 7hrs a week. I havent changed ftp in about 2 years, however its all been swim bike run, never taken time off the other two, to bring more cycling in.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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its all been swim bike run, never taken time off the other two, to bring more cycling in.

You don't need to take time completely off the other two... But, 8-12 weeks of a cycling focus could make a difference. Swim 1x, run short and easy. Bike heavy. Just enough swim/run to not lose much, while leaving all your heavy efforts to the bike. And recovery.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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Do you ride outside with road cycling groups at all? A few months in off season of doing some decent group rides with a road group, especially if you live soemwhere with hills will break your rut. As you say, you're doing the same stuff and expecting something different. To up your (very respectable) FTP then you need to push yourself in a new way, and forcing yourself to cling to the wheel of a pure climber roadie will do it.

Just to put my credentials here in terms of a coach offering advice. I've no feckign idea at all about you, your physiology, background, health or lifestyle. However, with the safety of anonymity and hopefully/probably several thousand kms, then I'm prepared to spout out a thought as fact. Slightly seriously, then I pushed myself really really hard to work my way up with the cycling group from clinging to B group, to front to clinging to A group to being amongst the hitters, and hill climbing is going to be about developing that FTP.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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IamSpartacus wrote:
Anyone been stuck on the same FTP year over and actually break through to increase their power? I know the body has its limits, but maxing out on 7hr bike weeks with triathlon training, i have struggled to increase FTP. Trainer road has me at 260ish give or take so im not exactly my name-sake but surely i have more in me. I have done everything from v02 to sweetspot etc millions of times over. I have also dug myself into holes trying. Now im not a bad cyclist despite the power number and tend to be front pack in terms of bike splits, but no where near the peaky top end folk around here.
Is there merit in taking an offseason of, say, an 8 week block of no run/swim and just belt out 12hr weeks on the bike? I hear conflicting stuff with offseason focused plans?

Maybe your genes are just not like the peaky top end folks genes. ;-)

Yes, your FTP could be 'stuck'.

Sure you could improve it with a larger volume of focused training. But triathlon is about swimbikerun and at some point you can't improve one with about being detrimental to the other.

I'm not saying you've reached your potential but there is a bit of theme on ST that everyone can improve if only they do 25hours a week and train like a pro. In reality that often isn't the case (and they'd probably get injured or overtrain if they did try it)
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Re: FTP long time stuck [tuckandgo] [ In reply to ]
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that's what I'm afraid of haha. Numbers get thrown around here like 300FTP all the time. And I am bustin chops going to do some pretty dark places in training for anywhere near that power. I blame my oldies, I picked the wrong ones.
I think, as mentioned, its worth a try to do some heavy road racing in the offseason, ramp up the bike hours whilst trying to hold some sort of run and swim fitness, then see what happens.
TO be fair its prob not the wisest since riding isn't my weak leg, but its by far the most fun. I could prob put that much effort into swimming or running, but there is something about being an absolute beast on the bike. In short course it has the most bang for buck I believe. I rekon there is more power in me if I bring up some volume and commit. Guess there is only one way to find out.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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Yes - I felt my FTP was stuck for quite a while. It would drop a bit in the winter with lower mileage, then bounce back to what it had been the previous year after around 6-8 weeks of building the mileage back.

This year I’ve been doing 2-3 Zwift races a week and have seen a small bump up in FTP. My FTP has been pretty good for a triathlete in the past, but I’ve seen some of my best power numbers rising. I used to do some canned workouts, but in Zwift racing I’m doing much longer sustained efforts at or above FTP. I recently did an indoor TT where I averaged about 5 w/kg for a bit over 15 minutes. My best effort at this event in the past was around 4.8 w/kg - not a huge difference, but every gain helps a bit. I’m riding around 6-7 hours a week currently with these gains.


Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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Your training should be weekly progressions in the short term and build over the long term.

You can do a lot with the 7 hours, just depends if you keep challenging your body correctly week after week, month after month, year after year.

Doing workouts based on power with proper progression in your training blocks should elevate you year after year. By elevation I mean maybe a 10 to 15 watt gain in peak season year after year. There will be a drop off when you taper for a race, recover and if you take an off season (which you should), but that drop equals less loss if you are consistent year after year.

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
https://setthepacetriathlon.com/offseason2019b - sign up for my off season webinar
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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Sometimes you need to have courage to put your other sports on the back burner in order to really see lasting gains in one sport.

Without knowing anything about your training I like Bluto's suggestions

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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I doubt your FTP is maxed because of available time. I average 6-7 hrs per week biking and did a 6-week bike build of averaging 9 hrs/wk. Maybe something like that would work for you. I also took about 6 weeks off from biking in November to focus on marathon training and when I came back, my FTP sky-rocketed. In the past year, I cycled 278 hrs total and increased my 20 min FTP from 352 to 407 watts. 7 hrs/wk will get you there if you make each minute count.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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So, what exactly is a 20 minute FTP? I thought your FTP was something that represented your power output what you can hold for roughly one hour?
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IvarAlmere] [ In reply to ]
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IvarAlmere wrote:
So, what exactly is a 20 minute FTP?
A mis-attribution of peak 20 minute power, I imagine.

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Re: FTP long time stuck [IvarAlmere] [ In reply to ]
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IvarAlmere wrote:
So, what exactly is a 20 minute FTP? I thought your FTP was something that represented your power output what you can hold for roughly one hour?
Because riding an hour at your FTP is so horrible there are several ways of testing for an approximation of FTP with a shorter test. Ramp, 20 minute and 2x8 minute tests.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IvarAlmere] [ In reply to ]
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Yea, I guess it’s your 20 minute best output but I call it my 20 min FTP because nobody does a real hour FTP test. And I’m not one to just take 95% of my 20 min test and call that my FTP because l, again, I know few people that can actually do 95% of their 20 min max power.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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IamSpartacus wrote:
Anyone been stuck on the same FTP year over and actually break through to increase their power?

Read this Hunter Allen Power Blog on how to get to the "Next Level": http://www.hunterallenpowerblog.com/2010/12/next-level.html
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Re: FTP long time stuck [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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Conky wrote:
Yea, I guess it’s your 20 minute best output but I call it my 20 min FTP.

You are misusing the term "FTP". There is no such thing as a 20-min FTP. In your case, you should call your 20 minute best your CP-20.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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You are misusing the term "FTP". There is no such thing as a 20-min FTP. In your case, you should call your 20 minute best your CP-20.

I don't view this as him misusing FTP. He's merely stating the method in which he calculated his FTP. To me 20 min FTP means you used 95% of your "20 min test". That would be opposed to one calculated with an "8 minute test" or a "ramp test". All these tests give you an estimate of your FTP or ~1 hour critical power. CP20 is merely your 20 minute critical power and that's that. Nothing is extrapolated from that.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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Conky wrote:
Yea, I guess it’s your 20 minute best output but I call it my 20 min FTP because nobody does a real hour FTP test. And I’m not one to just take 95% of my 20 min test and call that my FTP because l, again, I know few people that can actually do 95% of their 20 min max power.


95% of 20 min power is on average a reasonable practical approximation of power at MLSS.
Last edited by: Robert Estienne: Feb 14, 19 11:41
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Re: FTP long time stuck [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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Conky wrote:
Yea, I guess it’s your 20 minute best output but I call it my 20 min FTP because nobody does a real hour FTP test. And I’m not one to just take 95% of my 20 min test and call that my FTP because l, again, I know few people that can actually do 95% of their 20 min max power.

Or you know a lot of people who are very 'optmistic' when stating their ftp numbers.

Edit:
For a better estimation there should be a 5 minute all out effort before doing the 20 minutes. The "official" 20 minute test is not 95% of the CP20.
Last edited by: IvarAlmere: Feb 14, 19 15:09
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Re: FTP long time stuck [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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IamSpartacus wrote:
thats the problem, 12hrs riding id be too stuffed for run/swim. 7hrs is all im playing with and perhaps the volume isnt enough your right, i guess something has to give

As for workouts i have done everything from trainerroad sweetspot plan, sustained build as well as oly high volume. So thats a lot of v02 once a week, threshold another, sweetspot and long easy.

Last year I started using TrainerRoad, went through SSB1/2, sustained & 70.3 specialty, all mid-volume plus ~40mpw running & ~3 swims a week.

My tested-FTP remained stagnant, but I was faster in races as I could operate at a higher percentage of it for a longer time.

I think my FTP has actually increased, but if you run the numbers on the ramp test for a 300w FTP you'd need to hit the 400w step, given vo2 work tops out at ~120% (360w) there's almost no training time spent near the power you'd need to hold for the final two minutes...

So I'm somewhat in the same boat, but I'm wondering if it's the testing methodology that's causing the stagnation.

Currently I'm playing with the idea of using the old 20min test or just bumping the FTP up 5w & seeing if I can complete the plans.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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You’re correct, my apologies... I use my CP-20 then because I have not ever tested a true FTP and taking 95% of a CP-20 is inaccurate.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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Conky wrote:
You’re correct, my apologies... I use my CP-20 then because I have not ever tested a true FTP and taking 95% of a CP-20 is inaccurate.

Why don't you do a 2x20-minute session back-to-back without the break in between and use that value as your FTP? That would be more accurate than taking 95% of CP20. Most cyclists can do 2x20' with little hardship provided that their FTP is set fairly accurately.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [Conky] [ In reply to ]
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What's the intensity on your stuff like?

If you use a 20min test then people who routinely handle that amount of pain or more will do better than someone who doesn't.

3mins and 30:30's, 3x9 under over, 3x12 under over......etc.. It's a tough pill but it's good medicine for that duration of power.
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Re: FTP long time stuck [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
Conky wrote:
You’re correct, my apologies... I use my CP-20 then because I have not ever tested a true FTP and taking 95% of a CP-20 is inaccurate.


Why don't you do a 2x20-minute session back-to-back without the break in between and use that value as your FTP? That would be more accurate than taking 95% of CP20. Most cyclists can do 2x20' with little hardship provided that their FTP is set fairly accurately.

Isn't that just a single 40 minute interval?

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