I don't get it. Can you elaborate on what your "bad experience" entailed?

What exact is "it" that takes time? Getting faster / better / more fit / better race results?

Would it help if they said thins like imperceptible gains happen every week that add up to meaningful gains over years?

Sounds like you got burned. Like you said when you opened this thread, it takes time. There is no magic bullet. In fact I'd say the worst coaches out there will tell you that if you do x+y+z you'll automatically improve. The brutal reality is that it takes consistency and often times that's boring.

Personally, if someone said to me, "It just takes time", I'd ask them what that time will give me. I always have an answer when that is brought up. I also don't lock anyone into a contract. People are free to leave whenever. Also, if you know most coaches, there's not very much "Gold $$$$" in this.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

I'd say the exactly opposite. A bad coach or a fraud is one who says they can work a miracle in a short period of time.

I agree! I've only had one coach, for one year but that was my exact feeling. I literally just missed out on a Kona slot and figured I could use a coach to get the last few minutes to possibly KQ. Hired a well-known guy and he said "give me two years". Why? I'm already experienced and I've raced well, what are you going to do that would require 2 YEARS!!

And then go figure... had the worst race season ever when I was with him. QUIT... then self-coached got myself to Kona the next year.

it does take time. The crappy coaches are the ones selling you with big promises of quick improvement.

One of the most fun things for me as a coach is coaching someone to an improvement, say from 13 to 12 hours in an IM in a year and then them quitting because it wasn't fast enough...
Fast forward three years and 5 ironmans and they're still going 12 hours while their friend who started at the same place and stuck with it is going under 10.

The number of people who never get faster in this sport is staggering.

Sorry to hear of your bad experience.

I am currently being coached 1:1 for the first time and have been now for about 4months. What has been eye opening about the experience thus far is that he is making take a far more conservative approach to training overall. From a typical volume and intensity perspective, we are doing more like 50-70% of what I would have done on my own. I was bummed at first thinking he was holding me back, but I trust his judgement and just over 3months I’m, finally made progress. For the first time ever, I’m actually recovering and not injured for a change. While I’m sure things will get harder, the experience has made me realize that one benefit of a coach is in his ability to hold me back when it’s for my own good.

So the coach was right. It took you 2 years.

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Are you looking for a definitive end point or specific accomplishment? It really depends on what the athlete's goals and expectations are. Nobody is forced to stay in a coaching relationship if they aren't satisfied.

I knew someone would say this... NO! He wasted my time, robbed me of $2,000 in coaching fees, $2000 in registration fees and I'd say traveling costs but no, I enjoyed that.

What I did the following year was completely different, pretty much exactly what I did the year before coaching while he would have had me doing the same shit for another 12 months. I asked, that's why I quit.

I think you’re leaving out some important details about your situation.

There are obviously people, like yourself, having bad experiences with coaches while others have good experiences.

I assume you’re trying a different coach.

lolol

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

So are you saying that GREAT coaches can immediately make someone get from their current state of fitness right up to their physical and genetic limit without stringing them along? If you're so impatient that you can't see meaningful progress, even if slow, that's on you, not your coach.

sick burn

I had a brief stint with a coach who I’m fairly certain was getting me mixed up with another athlete he was coaching. Several times he assigned bike rides that started 40 miles from my house, when there were plenty of routes within 10 miles of similar terrain, to which I had to tell him “no” each time and to change the route. He would also have me do runs at paces that didn’t correspond to the profile we set-up together. I severed ties after six months and have been flying solo since.

That's just a shitty coach.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

That's likely a coach with far too many athletes who's just "copy/pasting" workouts in.

(yes I agree- shitty coach)

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I honestly hear this complaint from other people quite a bit. I'm sure you do as well. This as well as, "I'd leave comments on workouts and never get a response, then get a full week of interval after missing 3 days due to the flu." Job security, I guess.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

I was with my first triathlon coach for almost 2 years. In that time, I dropped my 70.3 PR by over 30 minutes. When I went sub-4 this July, he pretty much told me that I was beyond his level of coaching expertise and to find a new coach. Couldn't have been happier with his coaching and he gained a ton of my respect when he let me go.

I think if I could make a "complaint" about athletes is that they are too damn "race result" focused at times. And I think especially if they don't race enough throughout the year, it puts a ton of pressure on the athlete/coach. And at the end of the day sometimes you just suck on race day. It's like I said that to Jim Vance and Ben Kanute at Nice 70.3. The prep was the best of his life, the training was the best of his life, and yet on race day he just didn't perform....guess what....that shit happens all the time.


And then I kinda feel like athletes then make snap judgement on things because they didn't get the race result that they wanted. That's why I cringe when I hear "will you coach me to KQ".........ummmm that's a completely loaded cirumstance. So my coaching sucks if I dont get you that specific goal? But you are now in better shape, your numbers are better, and you just for whatever reason failed on race day....maybe just maybe you raced a field of people just better than you.

So my suggestions to athletes is as always, the 48 hour rule after a "bad" race. Don't make stupid rash decisions, and dont make stupid rash social media posts. Do a brief check in with the coach and that's it, give it a few days and then really evaluate with a level head from both the athlete + coach. Maybe just maybe every box was checked and you raced the best competition you've ever faced. It's cool to be disappointed in not achieving a goal, but at the end of the day if everything was done correctly, the prep was there, the numbers were there, and you just misfired on race day? Or you missed KQ by 1 spot to someone who is just faster than you? Then you show back up Monday ready to grind again cus then it's just a matter of doing another race and it all coming together for you.


I had an athlete go to DL World's. This was within 1 month of said athlete going on business/travel trip where in that combined 3 week business trip he worked out about ~12 hrs total. So as you can guess that DL world's race didn't go as we wanted too. Beauty of it, is that this is an "experienced" high level racer and so he completely owned it. He didn't have excuses, he got the "ass kicking" he pretty much kinda had to get with those training circumstances.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Wow. Extremely impressed by that acknowledgement from the coach. Do you think he was right? I'd imagine he learned a good deal from you/coaching you and in my mind that kind of makes him "qualified" to keep working with you.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

We have a couple of local coaches that get very fast results. Unfortunately many of the athletes are injured or will not last more than a few years. Th people here saying you need a long term plan are very correct.

I don't think I could have gotten much faster with a coach that is purely online, especially in the swim (my weakest discipline). Also, I agree that he coached me there and therefore has the pedigree. However, we both agreed that I could benefit from someone with more experience at the pointy end.

I think this is a great question. I'll share with you my experience. Here's my background, from 2009-2013 I went uncoached, from 2014-mid 2018 I had a coach, and now I'm back to putting together my own plans.

From 2009 to 2013 I would describe myself in the "beginner stage" I didn't quite have enough money for all the gear, but had access to people who were excelling in the sport and I could pick their brains. I probably saw the biggest increase in speed during this time mostly because there was alot of low hanging fruit to be gained. I ended the season in 2013 doing my second full ironman at IMFL and went under 10 hrs. I decided at this point to reach out to find a coach because I felt like that's what I needed to take the next step.

In 2014 I started with a local coach who I had seen coach various athletes in the 2009-2013 time frame and they improved every year. I remember the key line he said when we were discussing coaching and monthly fees (again, I was still moving up the career scale at this time and didn't think I could afford his listed rate for the entire season). He told me, "listen, if you can't afford the rate, could you afford it for 3-4 months before the race you want coaching for next year? I think if you did everything to train like you did for IMFL this year, you would be in the position for me to take over at that point." It made me realize that the coach was not after the dollar amount, but was really interested in making me a better athlete. We worked together the next four years and I definitely got faster, but the gains weren't linear. I had to work harder to gain the fruit that was a little bit higher up.

Now I'm back to coaching myself and it was actually at the coach's recommendation. He told me in the middle of the season last year to take a shot writing my plan because I was already doing a fair bit of it to accommodate for work travel and weekend plans. For the most part it's not anything out of the ordinary from what he was giving me, just that I know when I can fit which workout in the my week the best. I've been posting my best USAT scores since we ended things, but again the jump had been marginal. I'll probably be towards the pointy end of my AG when AA are done at the end of year.

So I guess my summary would be, yes, it takes time. Unless you come into this sport where you were a collegiate runner, cyclist, swimmer, I think it takes time to figure out how to race, especially long course. Your gains won't be linear yearly and will usually reflect training and the older you get it will reflect your diet too. If you do have a coach, find one who has the heart of a teacher and not a dictator. If you don't have the flexibility to move workouts around to best fit your schedule and have to wake up at 4:30 every morning to do them, you will most likely be gone from this sport within a year or two due to burnout.