I use a hi-dow unit I picked up in Placid last year during Ironman..

Works great for nerve/shoulder pain. I have a metal plate on my left collar bone from an accident with a minivan and have some nerve pain and general soreness in my shoulder all the time. Stim really helps relieve the pain and loosen me up. I also use the pads on my calves and back... Rubbing and massage rollers etc work well but stim is the only thing that really releases the tension. Sometimes it takes a few adjustments to get the pads right though! I recommend them!

I bought a Hi-dow some months ago, but still haven't figure out which mode to use, since the instruction manual it's very brief and doesn't explain much.

I was once intrigued by the device, truth be told I was a pacemaker/defib rep for quite some time so stimulating/activating muscle tissue was pretty much my gig, except for the heart. Anyway, when I had a few injuries, Achilles and Plantar, I was close to pulling the trigger but the injuries died down just in time for it to be a none issue.

Fast forward and I had been a huge opponent to Recovery Pumps/Normatec/Podium Legs type devices, mainly because I thought the pressure was too much at the expos. Then I had the opportunity to live with someone who own a pair and I got to use them at my pressure selection. Since finding what works for me I have found them to be indispensable, actually I am sitting in a pair right now as I type - these air relax compression. Anyway, obviously a totally different idea on recovery thru massage versus activation, but I think they are tremendous way to recovery and keep the muscles warm and loose. Seeing as you are a cyclist, I am guessing your cyclists friends don't have as much fluid filling that can come with running.

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The small home units can work just fine. My wife was using ours this afternoon. You can duplicate the treatment you get at PT or the Chiro. office. Be aware that there are huge price differences for what is basically exactly the same unit coming out of the same Chinese factory. I just looked at eBay and Amazon and it appears that the classic "iPod" looking device that was sold for several years has been replaced with a couple of more elaborate looking devices. Most are direct from China and what is obviously the same unit can be priced anywhere from $17 to $296. At the lower price you aren't gambling much and it might work out great for you - ours has.
(I remember one year at Interbike there were like 6-7 guys with booths selling these and they were all really pissed off because they had each been led to believe that they would be the only ones there. They would start off at about $200 but if you haggled with them you could get one for $35)

which units did you buy off ebay?

This is the closest to the one we have:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bodybuilding-EMS-Massager-Fitness-Electrical-Muscle-Stimulation-Strength-Trai-/222174653380?hash=item33baa42bc4:g:t54AAOSwOVpXeB9e
But, as I said, they have changed the case design for most of them though I think they are probably the same unit with a different plastic cover. The most common is now the larger shield shaped unit with two rows of buttons down the sides.
For $20-25 you can take a chance and may be as pleased as we were.

I always used the active recovery on my compex during training and the evening before a race. Loved it.

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Searching for the bliss of ultimate exertion.

Probably worth a shot. I would like it mostly for recovery. Had a hard TrainerRoad workout the other morning then a run in the afternoon and legs were shot the next morning.

I've been surprised at the prices people are paying for these units. My chiro sold me one identical to what she uses for about $100. I think you can shop around and find some better deals than what's being sold at triathlon expos.

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Sharon McN
@IronCharo
#TeamZoot
Clif Bar Pace Team 2003-2018

What one did you buy? I think the issue with this is knowing what units actually are good and which ones are junk.

Bought a Tens 7000 on Amazon for $30 or 40 dollars seems to work fine.

TENS is more pain management, no? I'm interested in something for aiding with recovery from hard workouts.

I have a Compex Sport Elite for sale if anyone is interested. PM me if so. Thanks

I use it for recovery and pain. Seems to help. I bought it more for back problems. At 62 recovery is not what once was.

I never searched ST and maybe should have. I bought the Compex Sports Elite as a Christmas present for my wife to give me. I was very skeptical before the purchase, but from a different discussion elsewhere I started reading research studies in relation to EMS and strength training as that is my primary background. What caught my attention the most was using EMS for recovery and one of my biggest struggles in a weekly crossfit type of routine between strength training and endurance cycling comes from DOMS and recovery from leg day. Attempting to be progressive in two different type of activities is a real challenge and recovery time is the main obstacle in my schedule.

So far I have only used it a few times and I am just starting to ramp up my leg training again after the holiday and an illness so I hope to see what really happens long term. For now what I have noticed with a severe lower back spasm and tightness I used the unit in Active Recovery mode and then I ran the Resistance mode at a higher intensity. Immediately following the Resistance mode the LB discomfort was gone and it was gone the next day and it has not been present since.

After training legs at the gym yesterday morning and a 60 minute Tempo trainer session after work I ran the unit at Active Recovery mode only on my quadriceps with the intensity set up at 30 on my left leg and 25 on my right only because the pulsing intensity felt more even with the offsets. This morning the quadriceps feel great and my hamstrings are starting to feel tight for DOMS as it is starting to set in. Again I did not run EMS on my hamstrings last night. No feeling of DOMS setting in on the quadriceps yet. Tonight's trainer session will be interesting to observe and see how my legs feel.

It would be great if this thing really works. Seems pretty good, but it is too early for me to tell for sure.

Since I train for strength already and it is time consuming to set up the electrode placement and connect the wires I will probably only use this unit for recovery and not see if it helps improve strength when used as a supplement to traditional training.

I too have one I bought from my physio many years ago. My understanding is that the more expensive units like Compex basically have presets programmed in, but otherwise do nothing different than the cheap units. So if you can have a physio or someone who knows what they are doing, tell you what settings to use, I'd just get the cheap verison.

Now that said, every physio I've ever been to have all said the same thing, that their main use is for temporary pain relief. They will not build muscle, and as far as recovery....they -might- stimulate a little more blood flow to the region? Hard to say.
If you were having to choose between the two, I'd take Thomas's advice and get a pair of compression leg things instead..... .02

too late :-)

I have the Compex model. I look forward to seeing what it will do.....or not :-)

xrookiex wrote:

Anyone using a EMS? I've been noticing more and more cyclists in my area getting an ESM and swearing it helps their performance. I just picked up a Compex yesterday and I'm curious on what to expect from using it. So far, I've only used the active recovery setting and feel somewhat sore the next day. I will probably dial down the intensity as I'm sure I've overestimated the intensity I can handle. I like the idea of an EMS, just curious to see if others have any feedback and hear how you incorporate it into your training plans(which is my next step to figure out).

I got myself 2 similar units from ebay with extra pads, no need to spend hundred of $, first is really good if you know what you are doing read up on EMS first.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TENS-7000-Digital-Pain-Relief-System-O-T-C-NEW-/162109096822?hash=item25be748376:g:6BYAAMXQ74JTSBf0


http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELECTRICAL-STIMULATOR-FULL-BODY-RELAX-MUSCLE-MASSAGER-ACUPUNCTURE-THERAPY-8-PADS-/371580896421?hash=item5683f284a5:g:zFcAAOSwwpdW8EUX

Having had both types of units, my opinion is that the E-Stim is much better. The research I saw at the time also showed more gains via E-stim. The boots were a novelty and felt good during TV time, but I really did not feel they did much than push the fluids around. E-stim seems much better at shaking highness loose and it also seems to be able to activate much more of the muscle fibers than weight lifting. I have had both Compex and Globus units and would definitely recommend them one the cheap ones seen at the tri expos. The quality astounds me and the batteries are phenomenal. I have used the E-stim on return trips from races while a buddy drove to start recovery quicker. This is just my opinion based on a few years of experience.

For most people this simply isn't the case. On average people can only tolerate only about 50%* of the maximum force they can produce volitionally with estim and this is at their maximum tolerance (i.e. where it hurts so much they are unwilling to take more current). If that corresponds to muscles fibers, they are only activating about 1/2 of the muscle. 50% of maximum force is less force than you would use to even warm up with at the gym.

*People vary greatly in their tolerance, I've seen people get close to 100% of the volitional maximum with estim and others take 10%. If you have your knee bent and are stimulating the quads and it isn't straightening your leg, you are producing very little force.

What can be said is you are probably activating some different muscle fibers with the estim than you would be volitionally because the way your brain and estim recruit muscle is different.

TENS and EMS are not the same thing...one stimulates the nerves and the other triggers the muscle.

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I'm afraid my experience over many years is different than your statements here. I have had to secure my legs while doing quads at times. Also, the quite obvious physical appearance is so much more "contraction" than I've ever seen while lifting.
Back to the OP, my experience is that E-stim is much more effective than boots, and can be done anywhere, as many units are small and battery powered. It can also be less expensive and more versatile should you choose to use those other features.

Not exactly, it's intensity dependent but both work by stimulating nerves.. Sensory nerves are always recruited at lower intensities than motor nerves because the former are on the skin surface and the latter are deeper in the body. Electrical stim makes muscles contract by triggering action potentials in the motor nerves, not recruiting the muscles directly. It takes a lot of current to do that, e.g. with de-enervated muscles.

Yes, you should have to secure leg if you are getting much force at all. If you're producing a lot of force with your lower leg secured it will force you to stand up if you are not strapped to the chair or holding yourself down. I think you'd be quite surprised how little force your muscle is producing despite the appearance if you had a dynamometer to measure it. You could actually get some idea of this at the gym. Put a load on the leg extension machine that you can easily lift with one leg and then hook up your estim device and see if you can lift it with your stimulated muscle. You could even do a one legged one rep max volitionally, and then see how much weight you can lift with the estim alone to calculate a rough percentage of the available force you can produce with the estim. I'd bet a lot of money it won't be whole lot. Even if your tolerance is good, I doubt the device has the capacity to deliver all that much current (for safety reasons).