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Economical Bike follow up
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    A couple weeks ago I asked about an economical bike to ride basically once a week with a local bike club. The "roadies" kicked my ass last year on my Softride and I vowed to make this the year that I would lead this ride at least once by the fall time change. It is a twisting, winding, up and down 25 mile ride balls out. The area is an asphalt roller coaster. I never really had a chance to get my Softride up to speed.Please note that I could now afford this second bike and I encourage everyone to participate as best as possible on what you own. I can't remember who always says it, but to paraphrase: Never not ride.

I test rode four bikes all on the same course at basically the same time of day. They were a Cannondale R600, Felt F65, Specialized Allez Comp and Litespeed Vela. I was able to get them all under $1200. with the Felt only being about a grand.
I rode the Vela first because I really wanted this bike. It listed at about $1500, but ultimately was my least favorite. The frame seemed to be wound as tight as the early version frames I remember. The wish bones stays really didn;t seeem to "dampen" road chatter. My course had a short steep downhill that had a nice "S" turn right in the middle of it. The litespeed didn't seem to hold a very good line and by the second curve I was feathering the brakes. There seemed to be alot of vertical movement. I was bummed because I REALLY wanted this bike.
The Specialized on the other hand encouraged greater speed in the "S" section. I have probably never felt more at ease as it challenged me to dive deeper into that second curve. Unfortunately it has the paint scheme (zebra stripes) made famous by none other than Mr. Cippolini. In my opinion there are only a handful of people in this world that should wear a USPS kit. This is a respect issue. Following the same philosiphy, I would rather go over the side coming down a steep mountain road, than get dropped on a bike that has zebra stripes. Having said that, you can get a Gun Metal Grey frame, BUT only as a triple. This shop wasn't Nytro and no, they would not swap it out.
The Felt was nice, especially at 900 and some change, but nothing other than that stood out. It performed as expected. But that was it.
Aahhh the Cannondale. This bike won on two accounts. I would stop about halfway up an uphill with the bike in 52x14. They all got going again. The Cannondale stood out in that it seem to transfer all of my work to the rear wheel. The others got going, the Cannondale took off. It was a suprisingly comfortable ride, not at all like the old Cannondale frames. I was fully prepared to hate this bike as I was getting my filling reglued. Due to my age and physical limitations the standard geometry reall y worked better for me. It didn't invite you to charge as hard into the corners like the Specialized, but it held it's line very securely. The other place it stood out was the Gipiemme wheels. We trigeeks are all about aero and I know these wheels were more "aero" than the Shimanos. I had to return to the store in a straight on headwind and I just wasn't working as hard. Lastly, does HANDMADE IN USA, do anything for you? It did for me and in this time I wanted to show my support for my country. I want to add that to show tolerance I will ride it with LOOK pedals.
So there it is. If you made it this far , thanx!! Hope it helps someone.

Brian
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [pedalincoastal] [ In reply to ]
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Great report !!! I don't agree with the USPS comment. I wear my USPS cap all the time. I don't know how many times people have asked about it. I then get a chance to educate them about Lance, The TEAM, and local biking. We have picked up a few newbies this way. Also when us good ol boys are hanging, they all have on their NFL jerseys and I have on my USPS stuff. Now they will ask about when the local crit is etc. It's a way to promote our sport.
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [pedalincoastal] [ In reply to ]
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So no thought was given to the components hung on the bike? Unless I'm mistaken, the Specialized has far better components than the Cannondale (Ultegra vs 105/Tiagra/Coda mix). I'm assuming you paid a lot less for the Cannondale than you would have paid for the Specialized. If they were the same $$ then I think you should have gone with the Specialized. Afterall, it seems to have been the all-around best performer according to your report. The wheelsets are a wash. Neither is exceptional nor very aero, but both are functional. For my $$ I'd rather have Mavic Cosmos or such. Much better bearings, and much lighter rim weight.

I'm not really trying to second guess you here. Just wondering at the logic...
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [denewone] [ In reply to ]
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    As for the USPS comment, I stated "kit". This is much different from wearing a USPS ball cap, which I would proudly wear also.

Yes consideration was given to components and the difference for what I was purchasing the bike for was negligible. Ultegra is not going to keep me in the hunt on this ride any more than 105 mix. It is unusual though that Cannondale puts on a Tiagra front derailleur. The difference at a manufacturers level couldn't be more than what, $5.00?

Ultimately, I chose the bike that worked best for me. I rode them all the same day, on the same course. As for the wheels, you are entitled to your opinion, but I know there is a difference.

Brian
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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well he test rode all the bikes and the cannondale seemed to have fit and handled better. parts are parts and can be replaced as neeeded. whey spend money on a frame that isn't exactly what you want to get parts?

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [pedalincoastal] [ In reply to ]
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why couldn't you keep on a softride? from what i hear they a really stiff and sprint well.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [ultra-poser] [ In reply to ]
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Well they are heavier than a "normal" bike and at a slower climb you do not get the aero advantage of a rolling time trial type course. At least this is my reasoning. I am NEVER not going to have a Softride. I am just not riding mine on this partcular ride.

Brian
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [ultra-poser] [ In reply to ]
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Well, parts is not always parts. If he were talking about the R800, with 105 everywhere, except the wheels, I'd accept your assertion that "parts is parts". The R600's low end parts will wear too quickly for serious use, and the mix of drivetrain parts will quickly become a constant source of shifting woes. The only thing he seems to have against the Specialized is the paint scheme. I admit, I'm not overly fond of the zebra stripes myself. But it sounds to me like the Specialized felt like the best handling bike to him and the Ultegra is virtually bombproof over the long haul. The power transfer difference between the Specialized and Cannondale will have been ENTIRELY due to the less stiff Shimano wheelset on the Specialized, NOT THE BIKE. If the bikes are the same $$, I think the Specialized represents the better buy, especially over the long haul.
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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Do you really think having Tiagra front derailluer will be that problematic? If you think the R800 is better because it is all 105, the rest of the shifting components are 105 and it could easily replace it for $30.00. But what I think you are missing is the spirit of the purchase. If I wanted to look at $1500.00 and up bikes then I would have test ridden a entirely different selection. It would have included higher end Felts, along with Orbea, R1000 and Klein. But I was buying a bike for one group ride a week. In the end the bike cost me $960.00. As for the power transfer being the wheels, I disagree with your opinion on the aeroness of the Gipiemmes that you stated earlier, replacing the Shimano wheelset is a hell of lot more expensive than converting a front derailluer. So yes the Specialized did handle amazingly well, but TO ME did not represent the best use of my money.

Brian

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It's not what you have, it's what you do with it.
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [pedalincoastal] [ In reply to ]
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speaking of Orbea.. I saw one at the local shop the other day, seemed like a pretty decent bike. What's the word on the street about these bikes. I was thinking of dropping about $2k into a road bike for crit and road racing next season. Any thoughts on the most cost effective way to put together a wicked road bike for that budget?

thanks,
mike
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [pedalincoastal] [ In reply to ]
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  Reading between the lines, I think you are saying that the Cannondale was much less $$ than the Specialized, though you have never clearly delineated so. I think you are saying you payed more than $500 less for the Cannondale. If so, then if you read my posts, you'll see that I totally agree with your decision, based on your needs. Your original post, however, was vague enough to suggest that all the bikes tested were roughly the same $$. I've simply been trying to ferret out the full reasoning for your decision.

Despite the sales hype, or the appearance of aero properties, no wind tunnel testing (or any other independent testing for that matter) currently published validates an appreciable advantage (more than a handful of seconds over 40k) of any shallow (less than 38-40mm) section rim over any another despite the elaborate claims of the manufacturers. In reality the Gipiemmes are no more or less aero than Mavic Open Pros or the Shimanos or any other shallow section rim. There are other areas beside aero benefit, however, where these wheels differ. The Shimanos definitely suffer from a lack of torque and lateral stiffness when compared to the Gipiemmes. THIS is what I mean by power transfer. The difference is in the wheels, not the bikes, though. The Specialized compact frame is every bit as stiff and efficient as the Cannondale's.

And yes, I do think the Tiagra front derailleur will be problematic. Anecdotal evidence from more than one bike shop that I frequent suggests that this particular mix is less than optimal and results in a large number of complaints about chain rub and less than accurate shifting, in that the chain often comes off the rings during shifts. To put it bluntly, many mechs (most good, but some not so good, I'll admit) consider mixing anything less than 105 in the Shimano drivetrain is a headache waiting to happen. These same guys who don't hesitate to put a 105 front derailleur in a DA drivetrain, curse the spec managers who put that "damn Tiagra" on bikes like the R600. My current LBS will swap the thing to 105 for free, that's how strongly he feels about it. Now if a few drops of the chain or a little chain rub in less used gears is no big deal to you for your one group ride per week, then fine. But when I'm on my road bike, I'm with the roadies who are just itching to put this triathlete upstart in his place. In that case, I'll take the solid shifting of my Ultegra any day of the week. Smile
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Re: Economical Bike follow up [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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   You are right about the Tiagra spitting the chain. But I attributed that to the mechanic who didn't center the bars accurately when they were installed. I dialed in the limiting screw, it was over shifting, yesterday morning before a ride and it didn't happen. Is it cured? Well with the limiting screw set I don't see how it could repeat. But like I stated, replacing that one piece would give the bike an all 105 drivetrain. And to concur with your mechanic it did seem like a bonehead decision to spec that.
Time will tell how this works out.
If you want to spend a $3-500 hundred extra and don't mind"zebra stripes" or replacing the wheelset then buy the specialized and hold on!! It could be a great bike.
On the wheel front, whatever it is, I did not experience the need to work as hard in a headwind as I did on all the other bikes that were spec'd with WH535 Shimano wheels. Even the Specialized with it's cut out seat tube.

Brian

Quote: Do not miss the mountain while searching for the tree.
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