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Eagleman swim?
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Long or what?

Everybody are slower than usual....
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Re: Eagleman swim? [bushpilot] [ In reply to ]
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Lot's of pro men in the 27's, so either long or conditions.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: Eagleman swim? [bushpilot] [ In reply to ]
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I saw some of the top womens splits, and it looks like it swam out about 3 to 4 minutes long if they had wetsuits. A little less if they did not...
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Re: Eagleman swim? [bushpilot] [ In reply to ]
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They named the river Choptank for a reason.
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Re: Eagleman swim? [DC Pattie] [ In reply to ]
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No wetsuits.

The real carnage is on the run course. Anyone living in the mid-Atlantic is not envious of anyone who has to race in this heat today.

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Re: Eagleman swim? [bushpilot] [ In reply to ]
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Long or what?

Everybody are slower than usual....

Seems unlikely that it was particularly long. Tri Columbia tend to know what they're doing.
Far more likely to have been due to current and possibly chop. When it's long people tend to go a similar percentage slower than normal, regardless of speed, but when there is current the slower swimmers spend a disproportionate amount of extra time swimming into the current, so they swim further than the fast folk, and thus their times are disproportionately slower, which seems to be born out in the results today.
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Re: Eagleman swim? [BigBloke] [ In reply to ]
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No wetsuits for pros, or AGs too?
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Re: Eagleman swim? [zdesmond] [ In reply to ]
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I was wondering what was up on the run. Top AG times seemed slow across the board.
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Re: Eagleman swim? [triFP] [ In reply to ]
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No wetsuits allowed for any of the racers. The announcement apparently came this morning while people were in transition setting up before the swim starts. It took many by surprise. All week the water temp signaled a wetsuit race. At the pre-race meeting on Saturday, everyone was told it was a wetsuit swim and that the water temp was below 78. The announcement this morning was that the temp was just below 80. Apparently the river temp went up approx 2 degrees overnight. They wouldn't allow people to wear wetsuits and just sacrifice awards or an official time. You couldn't race at all if you had a wetsuit on.
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Re: Eagleman swim? [Skewer] [ In reply to ]
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Wow...a RD with balls. Good to see...



blood, sweat...and big gears

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali
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Re: Eagleman swim? [Skewer] [ In reply to ]
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Don't know if this is true but I heard from several athletes that the boueys shifted overnight making the course longer. Could have been a rumor, but I didn't think the conditions were bad so this would make sense- even with no wetsuit.
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Re: Eagleman swim? [Skewer] [ In reply to ]
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No wetsuits allowed for any of the racers. The announcement apparently came this morning while people were in transition setting up before the swim starts. It took many by surprise. All week the water temp signaled a wetsuit race. At the pre-race meeting on Saturday, everyone was told it was a wetsuit swim and that the water temp was below 78. The announcement this morning was that the temp was just below 80. Apparently the river temp went up approx 2 degrees overnight. They wouldn't allow people to wear wetsuits and just sacrifice awards or an official time. You couldn't race at all if you had a wetsuit on.

Weird, what rules where they using? USAT rules are from 78-82, you CAN wear a wetsuit, just no awards. Only above 82 does the rules say NO wetsuits.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Eagleman swim? [show pony] [ In reply to ]
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Wow...a RD with balls. Good to see...

Not sure if the RD has balls. If this was a USAT rule race, it states between 78-82 wetsuits are allowed, just no awards. So, if the RD did not have a backup plan to deal with water temp between 78-82, then the RD was not prepared. I know at vineman if the water is in the range, they have all the wetsuit folks start last in the corral, and get their chips numbers as they leave the corral. Meaning, the RD is ready for any water temps with processes to run his race.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Eagleman swim? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Weird, what rules where they using? USAT rules are from 78-82, you CAN wear a wetsuit, just no awards. Only above 82 does the rules say NO wetsuits.

Good question, and one I think a lot of people would like the answer to. It was a USAT race. It was also an Ironman qualifier event. The race officials responded to inquiring minds by stating that the USAT rule was trumped by the Ironman rule, which apparently (I've never seen it) says that, if the water is over 78, no wetsuits for anyone...period. The only rule published on the race site says "5. Wetsuits are allowed for all athletes if the water is 78 degrees Fahrenheit or colder."

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Re: Eagleman swim? [bushpilot] [ In reply to ]
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Just home after 1 1/2 hour delay over the Bay Bridge. I DQd swim - first time ever. Looks like a bit less than 10% may have missed the cut-off. I was caught with swim suit in my car at their shuttle pick-up and wound up swimming in bike shorts. Really expected wetsuit since it was cleared in the pre-race announcements on Saturday. Completed the bike course, but there was tape on my rack position saying I was DQd and not to run. Now that I look at the results, I see several folks ran anyway - maybe should have taken that option.

For those that want to criticize my swim training - I swim 3d/week with Masters and attended a swim camp in Florida in March. Completed Hawaii twice well within the cut-off. I'm not fast, but this is the first time I've come up short. Philly Tri in two weeks to get back on the horse.

Jim B.
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Re: Eagleman swim? [Skewer] [ In reply to ]
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Weird, what rules where they using? USAT rules are from 78-82, you CAN wear a wetsuit, just no awards. Only above 82 does the rules say NO wetsuits.


Good question, and one I think a lot of people would like the answer to. It was a USAT race. It was also an Ironman qualifier event. The race officials responded to inquiring minds by stating that the USAT rule was trumped by the Ironman rule, which apparently (I've never seen it) says that, if the water is over 78, no wetsuits for anyone...period. The only rule published on the race site says "5. Wetsuits are allowed for all athletes if the water is 78 degrees Fahrenheit or colder."


Well, we all know WTC can have some approved modified USAT rules. But, they would have had to have been published. So, what does their athlete guide say?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Eagleman swim? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Well, we all know WTC can have some approved modified USAT rules. But, they would have had to have been published. So, what does their athlete guide say?

The "Ironman and Ironman 70.3 Race Rules Overview" distributed to all athletes states exactly this "5. Wetsuits are allowed for all athletes if the water is 78 degrees Fahrenheit or colder." I don't believe anything else distributed to the athletes before the race expanded upon or contradicted this. That's obviously not to say that there isn't something, somewhere, that gives them the discretion to make this type of call. My personal view is that they should have made the call much, much sooner, as there's no way the Choptank River went up 2 degrees overnight, and everyone was told on Saturday that it would be a wetsuit swim.
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Re: Eagleman swim? [Skewer] [ In reply to ]
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Well, we all know WTC can have some approved modified USAT rules. But, they would have had to have been published. So, what does their athlete guide say?


The "Ironman and Ironman 70.3 Race Rules Overview" distributed to all athletes states exactly this "5. Wetsuits are allowed for all athletes if the water is 78 degrees Fahrenheit or colder." I don't believe anything else distributed to the athletes before the race expanded upon or contradicted this. That's obviously not to say that there isn't something, somewhere, that gives them the discretion to make this type of call. My personal view is that they should have made the call much, much sooner, as there's no way the Choptank River went up 2 degrees overnight, and everyone was told on Saturday that it would be a wetsuit swim.

This has been the issue I have had with some of the WTC changes. A number of them may not be throughly thought out, IMO. The USAT rules have been around enough they handle most situations, just like what temp from 0 to 200 degrees.
They have a must, optional for awards, optional no awards, and a cannot wear temps. I guess before I jump to conclusions like I have been accused of in the past, Jimmy, where is the written rule for this situation? If you have not wetsuits period over 78, I sure missed where USAT approve this one. And since starting in Sept the temp goes to 76, what happens after this? Customer are just SOL and cannot wear them even if they do not care about awards?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Eagleman swim? [bushpilot] [ In reply to ]
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Definately long but very very calm for eagleman standards.
The run, in that heat, was a beast. Everyone seemed to be affected, across the board.

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY
Guru Cycling, Wilton CT.

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Re: Eagleman swim? [bushpilot] [ In reply to ]
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Only slightly long, had it clocked at 1.24 on my Garmin which has been pretty accurate. The current is what I think the issue was, I swam through 2 age groups ahead of me and I thoght I was having a good swim until I looked as my watch and saw 38:XX Im usually around 30ish.
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Re: Eagleman swim? [Colossal Quads] [ In reply to ]
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I did notice a few of the buoys drifting after the first turn. It seemed like half the athletes went on either side of the yellow buoys.

I do think the current was a major issue. I also thought I was having an awesome swim until I got to the second turn and saw 38:00 on the watch. I've never gone above 33 minutes at Eagleman. This year -- 47 minutes. Completely shot my chance at going sub 5 hours. The bike seemed a bit faster this year, but the run was a sufferfest as usual.
Last edited by: HoyaSaxa: Jun 13, 10 17:36
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Re: Eagleman swim? [bushpilot] [ In reply to ]
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No wetsuits (which few others than pros were prepared for- I don't know if they told the people that took the shuttle that wetsuits were banned). I heard from someone that the swim was like 1.5 miles if you followed the yellow non-turn buoys- apparently some of them shifted overnight. The two red turn buoys were apparently not affected. I also heard that like 197 got DQ'd for not making the swim cutoff. I was in the last AG wave and though I'm a good swimmer and usually pass some in the wave 2 in front of mine, maybe a couple 3 waves in front of me, I passed people wearing swim caps from about 6 different waves. At least when I was in there, there was chop going out and tough currents coming back in. Tough swim for non-swimmers.

The winds were constant on the bike course- worse I've seen there all-around, and the run was brutal with high humidity, and the 15 minute start delay really didn't help the later waves. Rough day.
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Re: Eagleman swim? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Wow...a RD with balls. Good to see...


Not sure if the RD has balls. If this was a USAT rule race, it states between 78-82 wetsuits are allowed, just no awards. So, if the RD did not have a backup plan to deal with water temp between 78-82, then the RD was not prepared. I know at vineman if the water is in the range, they have all the wetsuit folks start last in the corral, and get their chips numbers as they leave the corral. Meaning, the RD is ready for any water temps with processes to run his race.


I remembered that the announcer said something in the morning over the speakers to the effect that the reason why they didn't allow wetsuit was because there was no way for them to determine who was there to race/podium and who was there just to complete the race. I thought that that was odd when I heard it. It seems like if that was the case then it wasn't a RD with balls but rather a RD who was not prepared to handle water above 78 degrees. If it's the later then that is really sad.

Also to 2x what someone has already said. Not sure how the Chesapeake was able to heat up 2 degrees overnight.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
Last edited by: zoom: Jun 13, 10 18:07
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Re: Eagleman swim? [zoom] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Wow...a RD with balls. Good to see...


Not sure if the RD has balls. If this was a USAT rule race, it states between 78-82 wetsuits are allowed, just no awards. So, if the RD did not have a backup plan to deal with water temp between 78-82, then the RD was not prepared. I know at vineman if the water is in the range, they have all the wetsuit folks start last in the corral, and get their chips numbers as they leave the corral. Meaning, the RD is ready for any water temps with processes to run his race.


I remembered that the announcer said something in the morning over the speakers to the effect that the reason why they didn't allow wetsuit was because there was no way for them to determine who was there to race/podium and who was there just to complete the race. I thought that that was odd when I heard it. It seems like if that was the case then it wasn't a RD with balls but rather a RD who was not prepared to handle water above 78 degrees. If it's the later then that is really sad.

Also to 2x what someone has already said. Not sure how the Chesapeake was able to heat up 2 degrees overnight.

Yep, you might be right on. Technically, if you ask an RD before the race what is their written process to deal with water between 78-82, they are supposed to give it to you. So far in all the race I have asked, only the vineman had a process ready. Just another hole in enforcement from WTC/USAT with RD's not ready to follow all the rules. Since it happened at Worlds last year to my family, it even happens at all levels of our sport. So sad. I hope someone bugs WTC to deal with this issue in this race. I also hope folks on races that will be closer if not over in the future, you might want to start writing the RD/WTC and get the issue dealt with BEFORE it happens.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Eagleman swim? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I'm searching all over for even the slightest indication that this could happen, and nothing. Even in the "most common rule violations" distributed to the athletes, it says:

"10. Wetsuits:
Each age group participant shall be permitted to wear a wetsuit without penalty in any event sanctioned by USA Triathlon up to and including a water temperature of 78 degrees Fahrenheit. When the water temperature is greater than 78 degrees but less than 84 degrees Fahrenheit, age group participants may wear a wetsuit at their own discretion, provided, however that participants who wears a wetsuit within such temperature range shall not be eligible for prizes or awards. Above 84 degrees, wetsuits are prohibited."

It's very disappointing. Eagleman is a big event and the fact that the RD didn't have a plan in place for water above 78 is unacceptable. It will be interesting to see if participation drops next year when people considering the race recall/learn for the first time how this went down. In the interim, there needs to be some uniform implementation of a rule that allows amateurs to race w/ the wetsuit if they want, up to 84 degrees. In a field of 2200, most racers aren't there for prize/award eligibility.
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