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Dynamic Concept2
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Concept2 will soon be selling their own version of the Rowperfect:
http://www.concept2.com/...ers/dynamic_home.asp
Do any of you rowers out there see any big advantage to training with the new model.
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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [Dreadnought] [ In reply to ]
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I see how this can be a great tool for teaching beginning rowers properly slide recovery... but at a higher competitive level, probably won't turn too many heads. It's a cool idea, but ultimately I don't think it will revolutionize the training.

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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [IKnowEverything] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I see how this can be a great tool for teaching beginning rowers properly slide recovery... but at a higher competitive level, probably won't turn too many heads. It's a cool idea, but ultimately I don't think it will revolutionize the training.

I'm with you on this. Though, I've never rowed on a rowperfect . . . or a Concept2 on slides for that matter. I'd love to see how it feels compared to the 'regular' Concept2.
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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
I see how this can be a great tool for teaching beginning rowers properly slide recovery... but at a higher competitive level, probably won't turn too many heads. It's a cool idea, but ultimately I don't think it will revolutionize the training.


I'm with you on this. Though, I've never rowed on a rowperfect . . . or a Concept2 on slides for that matter. I'd love to see how it feels compared to the 'regular' Concept2.



Here's what people on the C2 Forum are saying:

http://www.c2forum.com/....php?f=3&t=10859

Those who use slides feel that it is easier on the back, reducing injury risk.
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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [Dreadnought] [ In reply to ]
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Last week, in Boston, my wife and I did an erg "taste-test", to see what the differences are in feel between all the lastest ergs. We hopped from one erg to the next to try to get a somewhat obejctive feel to the differences in machines. FWIW: my wife was a triathlete turned rower and I am a rower turned triathlete, so we both have a little experience and know how to "operate" ergs.
 
The new dynamic c2 is just ok. The seat is actually "anchored" with an elastic cord, to prevent "too much" range. It can be unanchored. I still found this strange, and almost like an afterthough in the design. The flywheel does not move, rather the handle moves (on a cable, now, not a chain) and the footstretchers move (also connected to a cable, not a chain). The rail on which the seat slides looks shorter than the 80cm tracks used in most singles. So it looks like c2 found a way to rethink their erg, and not rethink how to simulate the rowing motion (the call their machines "Indoor Rower" and not rowing ergometers, now). Rowing on the dynamic c2 erg feels like rowing on sliders, but "tighter"; sometimes the erg feels like it coasts a lot, when on sliders, and slightly less so on the new dynamic erg. The new erg is still pulling a handle and pushing the footstretchers. So a marginal improvement in design and feel.
 
I've spent a little time on the RowPerfect, and it is closer to the feel of rowing compared to a static erg, since the flywheel slides on the same rail that the seat does. It requries good technique, and the dynamic feels "closer" to rowing since one is moving the flywheel and sliding, as opposed to just trying to spin the flywheel and rely upon air resistance for load. The RowPerfect is a great tool for workouts and keeping technically sharp. It's expensive, esp for non-rowing athletes.
 
The OarTec (http://www.oartec.com) is by far the closest thing to rowing--so far--without getting into a boat. Both my wife and I, independently, felt that the OarTec felt the best, by far, of all the dynamic/sliding ergs, and if were were going to buy more ergs, this would be it. She's working with oartec to get a demo erg for our club. I took video of her rowing on it and it was quite evident that the erg slides, and the athlete does not. This is what *should* happen. This erg felt the smoothest, the loading did not have a slack feel at the catch (like the c2 does). She tried it again two days ago, in Philly, and she her pair partner were able to really crank it down to some impressive splits, with less perceived--or apparent-- effort than a c2. They both said that it was much easier to get the erg moving faster and keep it moving, than the c2 or c2 on sliders, since they could "row" it, instead of just trying to tear the handle off. The cost of this erg is the same as a c2 w/ sliders, or the new c2 dynamic erg.
 
I have NO interest in c2 or oartec: but if you're gonna spend money on an erg, get the oartec.
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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [philly1x] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for sharing your experiences with the various rowers. I was not aware of the oartec. I will have to consider looking at one of them.

It seems to me that the oartec, rowperfect, and Dynamic C2 all result in the same essential motion of the body, i.e. it stays in the same spot. I don't understand how the motion or lack of motion of the flywheel shoud affect that.
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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [philly1x] [ In reply to ]
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For a fitness rower- a guy who is going to use the machine to improve overall fitness as opposed to a crew team member- do you see any advantage to one machine over another?

FWIW I think rowing is one of the most important exercises for older multisport guys and girls since it seems to help your back so much.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
For a fitness rower- a guy who is going to use the machine to improve overall fitness as opposed to a crew team member- do you see any advantage to one machine over another?

FWIW I think rowing is one of the most important exercises for older multisport guys and girls since it seems to help your back so much.



It seems to me that any of these dynamic rowers would be advantageous over the basic C2. The proponents of the dynamic systems (rowperfect, oartec, C2 on slides, or dynamic C2) claim a reduced risk of injury to the back, but I don't know if there are any data out there to support these contentions.

I agree that rowing is a great exercise for the back, but one has to be careful not to overextend oneself and risk injury.
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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [Dreadnought] [ In reply to ]
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with a static flywheel, one has to change one's bodyweight momentum twice for each stroke cycle, as well as reaccellerate the flywheel.

with a "dynamic" erg, one has only to move the flywheel, while one's body does not change position relative to the entire system. here's oartec's discussion: http://oartec.com/...micvsstationary2.htm

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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [philly1x] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
with a static flywheel, one has to change one's bodyweight momentum twice for each stroke cycle, as well as reaccellerate the flywheel.

with a "dynamic" erg, one has only to move the flywheel, while one's body does not change position relative to the entire system. here's oartec's discussion:http://oartec.com/...micvsstationary2.htm[/reply[/url]]


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Thanks for the link. It illustrates the concept very clearly.

However, getting back to the Dynamic C2, it accomplishes the same goal in terms of not having to change one's body weight momentum, even though the flywheel itself doesn't move. So I don't understand why that's a problem.
Last edited by: Dreadnought: Nov 1, 10 15:03
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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [Dreadnought] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. I think technique is key also.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [Dreadnought] [ In reply to ]
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with the dynamic c2, the "problem" is that the the flywheel does not move. c2 skirted the issue by creating a system on which the footstretchers and handle move, but still not the flywheel. my ability to explain this well enough is limited to my lack of physics background, so try these

c2 dynamc video:
http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related

c2 slides:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9vvEAAvbpY

oartec video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nythUMwWiLc

rowperfect video:
http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related
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Re: Dynamic Concept2 [philly1x] [ In reply to ]
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I am reopening this thread after a long hiatus.

I have subsequently owned and used the C2 Dynamic, and more recently the Oartec DX.

The Oartec DX is not cheap, but it's worth every penny. At $1875.00 its still cheaper than the RowPerfect, and it's so much smoother than the C2 Dynamic.
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