"In your scenario, how does someone go from being the victim of being passed by 20 people to being in the middle of a peloton on their bullhorns for a significant amount of time? "


Andy--the rules require you, when you are passed, to drop out of the drafting zone--which is something like 3 bike-lengths. In order to do that when someone pulls in front, you basically have to sit-up and stop pedalling. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone. While you're sitting up the next guy passes you and then you have to drop out of his drafting zone.

During this time you are in the 20-person peloton--you can be on the bullhorns or just chilling in your aero-bars.

BTW--it takes longer than reading the above--I'm not sure if you think that's a significant amount of time or not

Thank goodness your question wasn't about being passed by 100 people! :)

---

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

Riiggghhhtttt...when the rules get enforced ST lights up with huge amounts of bitching & moaning about overzealous marshals, draft Nazis, inexperienced officials...to infinity & beyond. No one ever cheats on this forum. No one ever is in the wrong place at the wrong time. No one ever commits an offense (see recent moaning about swim caps & being penalized). Everyone is innocent. RDs don't want large parts of their paying customers getting penalized...bad for business.

If you've not been on the back of a motorcycle trying to enforce the rules ( and I shall channel my id): STFU. Quit your bitching. If you want to make change become an official, quit doing WTC events or volunteer in some capacity. This whinging after every frickin' large race does get a bit tedious. "I'm shocked. Shocked that drafting takes place!" Really? You're that surprised that WTC wishes to cram as many people onto a course that cannot handle that number of highly motivated participants & that position fouls are going to take place?

It's Ground Hog day yet again on ST...

---

#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

I have raced in kona a couple times and two World Champs 70.3 and one Oly WC. The groups that formed out there on the road were similar to what i experienced in Vegas a couple years back - but in my recollection there were enough hills to break the weaker cyclists from sticking and only smaller packs formed. This was not the case in tremblant and the hills came later when the packs actually did fracture. The only issue i see with splitting the age groups up is that some people want to race head to head with the competition and not knowing where you are relative to them would be problematic.

If its a small race - i have no issue with yelling at someone who might be trying to get a free ride- but when that train is 3km long - it would just be a waste of energy for me. I have to accept it or just get the bike over with and let the race be decided on the run. I always figure that the big championship races with draft fests on the bike favor the fast feet runners- the uber bikers cant get away.

---

Michael Hay - helped on the journey by the great folks at ZiZU Optics, (for the custom fit), and Bialkowlski's TRYSPORT

Hey Lazy--I hear your complaint but I think you're in the wrong thread. I suggest you go back to the beginning of the thread and maybe post something more constructive (and civil for that matter).

By that I mean, if we genuinely wanted to make a change that would reduce drafting, what would we say to the WTC?

Is it this:

"If you've not been on the back of a motorcycle trying to enforce the rules ( and I shall channel my id): STFU. Quit your bitching. If you want to make change become an official, quit doing WTC events or volunteer in some capacity. This whinging after every frickin' large race does get a bit tedious. "I'm shocked. Shocked that drafting takes place!" Really? You're that surprised that WTC wishes to cram as many people onto a course that cannot handle that number of highly motivated participants & that position fouls are going to take place? "

Just saying...

---

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

Thank you, I know the rules. I'm even in a pretty good position to determine how many fewer watts it takes to ride that way. No, I meant how if, 20 kms later, you were still in the same peloton and still in the bullhorns. That kind of thing.

We all know what's really happening, in spite of people's pleas that they're the victims of overcrowded races. Keep in mind that you're speaking to peers. This ain't your coworkers you're trying to impress with your fine fitness.

---

AndyF
bike geek

Hey Andy--i think we have a failure to communicate since i really don't have any co-workers and if I did i wouldn't be trying to impress them with my "fine fitness".

If you read the whole thread you'll know I'm not good enough to be in this scenario (as you say) at the WCs (I'm a BOP when I'm lucky enough to get to race at Kona or the 70.3s)--I know enough people who are though to think maybe we can organize a discussion on how one might design a race to help alleviate the obvious drafting that goes on there.

My only dog in this hunt is I have a lot of friends who are much better than me who get impacted by the drafting at Kona and I think we should all just acknowledge the problem and maybe move on to trying to help solve it. I also think we should not criticize people who say there is lots of drafting but I didn't do it--they are correct--there is a problem even if they might be part of it.

I do think Kona could be done differently (and so does the WTC given the changes to the start this year) to make it fairer for the really good AGers out there. There have been a bunch of good suggestions on this thread so far. Do you have any to offer?

(BTW--I'm pretty upset about my lack of fitness as I head towards Kona truth be told...its certainly not fine....I'm one of those guys trying to get under 14 hours)

---

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

Right thread. Emphasis on the frustration so the lack if civility was intentional. Dead horse issue. Go back over the years here on ST & see the same B&M by people regarding WTC events. Same ol' song, only the days change.

What would you say to WTC: don't participate. Pressure them for change. They have little interest in enforcing rules because it might impact their paying customers in the present setting. The other scenario is change will be forced upon them when dozens of riders go down in a massive crash & the injuries begin to impact their liability insurance AND the host NGBs start demanding change.

---

#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

So--your excuse for not being civil is that this issue was discussed before and nothing happened and you think a dialogue among concerned folks is pointless and won't accomplish anything.

I'd like to kindly suggest that you no longer participate in this thread--we are not hurting anyone in having this dialogue and it isn't of any value to you. Also, life is too short to put up with rude and mean attityudes and behavior.

Thanks in advance for doing the right thing and no longer posting on this thread.

---

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

Just make the swim longer. Done problem solved

Make the swim longer at the beginning, and add a swim leg a the end.

.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep