The issue with that is that "1st across the line" is lost when you apply penalties to your time after the fact.


But that's how we do it for almost all non-draft races so not like it's against the norm.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I would also add:
Construct courses that are not conducive to drafting, i.e. hilly courses.
That's pretty much the same as boycotting WTC though. BOP folks gotta make the time cutoffs or they can't get the tattoo.

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John Kenny, Pro Triathlete, USAT Certified Coach - http://www.frenchcreekracing.com
Philly Masters and Open Water
Swim and Multisport Events

I think we talked about this before, but this was the rule (at least orally) at Calgary 70.3 this year. There were 8 penalties handed out (times are denoted on the results) and at least 1 of those was a dismount line penalty (my wife witnessed they guy basically ride into T2 and the official run over and tag the guy). There were 869 finishers. There were 100 WC slots on, so there were a lot of guys out there who wanted them with the race in Canada this year.

Some might say that this shows the race was clean, but my n=1 is I saw lots of breaches. Not so many "trains" but at least half a dozen instances where I watched 2 or 3 guys hang out in the draft zone for 30 seconds plus. In at least 3 of those instances I watched the marshall either ignore it or give a warning. Basically, lots of people were willing to take a chance that they were not going to be the 1 in 100 who got popped for drafting.

Like any sport, there's the "rules" and there's the way the game is played.This is the way it is played. I don't begrudge those who want to change it but I suspect the vast silent majority are just happy to take their race results or qualifiers, shrug their shoulders and pay the next set of race fees.

+1

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You're telling me that at Calgary 70.3 if you got a drafting penalty you were exempt from qualifying for 70.3WC?

My one suggestion for Kona - just keep going straight up Palani on the bike from the start at the pier to the upper levels road and carry on to the Waikoloa road and back down to the Queen K - rest of the bike stays the same. You may not have to go all the way up to Hawi for the turn around now.

What you get is over 4,000 ft of climbing right out of T1!! That will do a great job of breaking things up early on!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Do you really think most care?

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Fleck--I like that and have thought the same as I tooled around up in those hills....

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

Do you really think most care?

Dave,

I divide it into 1/3's - 1/3 really do care. 1/3 are caught in the middle. 1/3( perhaps a bit less) do REALLY take advantage of the situation.

You see, if you are competitive you want to push it right to the edge. However, in these highly competitive races with dense fields of evenly matched athletes, this does become a bit of a problem with EVERYONE pushing the envelope.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

That was what they told us, confirmed by an email from the RD which I still have in my inbox.

Interesting. So, there is precedent. I would love for WTC to make this standard practice.

To confirm, a drafting penalty did not DQ you, it just made you ineligible for championship qualification? Identical to wearing a wetsuit when the water is above 76 degrees.

In my 16 years of racing at all levels, I cannot remember hardly anyone bitching about drafting. So I would say 1%. I hear the talk of some of our top racers in my area brag about it. I am not sure what is worse, the ones who draft or
the ones who get on their soap boxes like they have never broken a rule or law.

I just go back to if you sign up for a race with a flat course with lots of top talent, the joke is on the person who comes on ST and complains.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Steve, I also ask how many of the folks who complain are officials? So easy to bitch, much harder to sit on the back of a moto, make the call, and then defend it when the racers is in your face
after the race.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I just go back to if you sign up for a race with a flat course with lots of top talent, the joke is on the person who comes on ST and complains.

________

But in the end, the joke is on the sport itself. When your sport at the highest level has these types of issues, that's not a good look for your sport. The fact that we are now so used to it and we are laughing/smirking at the people who now are just seeing the issues, is the problem in itself. And a problem that isn't going away because there are some areas where an race terrain cant suddenly become "difficult". If you only do races that break up drafting based almost only on elevation, you will be missing out on a lot of great racing areas.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I don't know that wetsuit rule, but you have described the situation as I understood it. The exact email exchange was as follows:

Me:

RD:

The penalties could be called 75% in the run. Give time to officials to figure out the facts, and you still get your first across the line effect.

But I was wondering - not that it happened often before - but how does IM handle an age grouper beating the pro field in a race? I could find only one time it happened (women, IM Canada 2012 - Kendra Lee) - did they give her the win?

All this banter. I just don't understand the debate. Let's just switch triathlon to road bikes and make everythin draft legal. Have one men's wave and one women's wave separated by an hour and a half to minimize the fast female swimmer women might get. No mixed gender drafting allowed.

In fact, at that point, you could even get rid of the pro/AG separation. One race. One prize purse. First one across the line wins. Make ready. Get set. Go.

And TV would eat that up.


Drafting problem solved. Oh and I just increased the triathlon industry's worth by millions of dollars.

You're welcome. =)

But I was wondering - not that it happened often before - but how does IM handle an age grouper beating the pro field in a race?//

Since they do not start in the same race, it is impossible for an AG'er to beat the pro field.

I think it is important to differentiate between careless cheating and deliberate cheating. It is probably hard for judges to be certain.
But if that determination is made, why just 5 minutes?
How bout a DQ and a couple of years suspension?

Or even better: make it 2.5 penalty laps around a track, running an 1000m before starting the run. They do something similar when a biathlete misses a target....The track of shame. Opportunity to be heckled. Plus put timing mats on the track and report the penalty lap splits. Can you fathom: "Dude, I finished in 11:20, but I outsplit everyone on P2.". Heh.

THAT ought to do it. :)

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- I do all my own stunts

As I said, I just never hear about the issue other than ST and in the US.

So nope, I do not think the joke is on the sport by what the majority feel.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

How would you feel if a significant percentage of the field started using GruberAssists and WTC was aware that some were taking this benefit yet took no steps to stop it?

I'm confused about 1 thing. Why does it matter where you hear about the issue, if the issue is happening at races. Are you saying because others "accept" it, that it's not a problem?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

What are gruberassists?

Do I spend time worrying about what others are doing? NOPE! I guess this comes with age. I do not have enough time left to worry about dumb stuff.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Draft legal triathlons are pretty fun to watch.