I cant take credit for this statement but...

"get woke, go broke...specialized"

 It’s why it’s pretty cool when HBCU school like Hampton Uni comes on board to support triathlon as an ncaa sponsored sport. If they can get more ppl involved in positions of power, I think the cultural change will improve even more.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I can't see the video from here, but I assume they are talking about Crit racing where the newbies are passively discouraged from participating by some of the snobs and officials?

If that is the case, from someone that participates in both sports, Triathlon, even at the high level events is nothing like cycling. Not even in the same league. I try to be nice and helpful to anyone that asks in both sports, but I have never seen anyone treat a new triathlete like I've seen people treat first time 5er. I've had the urge to take a few people behind the scoring truck and beat then senseless, and that was just 2 weekends ago.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

There are definitely inclusivity problems, but I think they are less aligned with race and more to do with cost. Bike racing (and triathlon) are incredibly expensive, especially when you want to get something that's actually good. The irony is that Specialized (and others) sell their racing bikes at exorbitant prices, I'm sure well beyond the point of making a profit. If they really wanted to help with this issue, they would find better ways to support low income communities. It is stands, these videos scream of "woke points" without actually doing anything about it.

I'd say the bike world has appeared fairly inclusive to me until you get near the top of the A groups and above.

We have a thriving "critical mass" group ride scene of brewery rides including all people who want to come.

We have lots of local group rides. Most having A/B, and some offering C groups. Some of the C groups even meeting on local greenways or at times to cater to retired people.

Once you breach the pointy part of the A group ride though, I'd say it gets to be pretty clique like and exclusive pretty quick. Egos.

I started out riding with a couple friends outside of any groups a few times. I did the critical mass for half a year. Did the B group for a while, moved up to A group. Dabble in racing.

To me the trouble starts for folks wanting to compete in road. I don't find road race to be very inclusive at all. And it isn't just due to the vast differences in physical ability required either.

The very nature of road riding in the US versus maybe the UK or Europe kind of separates the racers and the clubbies. In the US you either solo race or are part of a team. Sometimes, a team is part of a club. Around here........I don't really notice that. I notice a lot more teams operating as teams only. Not part of a club.

This brings about a lack of social accountability for road racers. They're not accountable at all for being cliquey, douchey, exclusive, cocky, or whatever.

The wouldn't matter at all if they kept to themselves. However, a lot of these teams depend on local CLUB rides for their training rides. Then they show up, ride like it's the freaking regional championships or a freaking national championship race, and yell and talk shit about people who manage to hang on and mix up "their group". Last I checked, you showed up to the CLUB's group ride.

I think the UK/Euro club based system works better. You have an overall club umbrella for all the riders: C, B, A, time trial, road racers, etc... Everyone contributes somehow. Membership dues, time, companionship, community involvement. Everyone can belong somehow. It fosters more community and involvement.

Then, because of all this, you have the decline in road in the US. You've got a bunch of A group riding roadies who'd fancy a try at racing but the environment isn't very inviting and almost winds up making you choose between "us in the club, and them on the race team". Or going it alone.

Right now, local to me, both race group and club group leadership is weak. People don't bring people into the herd, foster the relationship, develop their skills. If it's racing, it's all about showing up to the club ride and destroying everyone and then "just go home and do more intervals".

And none of them stick around afterwards to have a beer, or soda, with the clubbies they just spent 90 minutes destroying and yelling at. Not even a "hi my name is". Bike onto the car rack, fist bump the racing buddies, peel out and go home.

I do both the club thing and dabble in race. I've buddied up with only maybe two racers that were personable that show up to the club rides. Two out of probably 20+ that I've met or have shown up.

If you're on the local club ride you're not going to France to race tomorrow. Chill after and introduce yourself.

I've met some awesome club riders doing this that I enjoy riding and talking with.

I think for me it's the "us and them" thing between road racers and clubbies in the US. Some areas may have great relationships and collaboration. Here, it's two different worlds.



So.........triathlon. I don't think it does because everyone races and participates together. I see more clubs operating all in one. I don't see tri groups separating out the AG podium competitors from the BOP'ers at the club level socially.

And guess what's increasing in popularity in the US...........gravel racing. Why? Everyone rides together (like a marathon or triathlon) and most people see each other on the club ride and get along together and are more laid back. There's less "us and them".

Geeeez. I wonder why it is growing in popularity.

I've advocated for clubs and fondos joining hands with USAC to do events on the same day on the same course. Run the racers in their groups 5min apart 30min before the fondo mass start. Have the same post-race environment for both groups to mingle together. I'm just theorizing here.

It's easy to be a dick when all you're around are a bunch of type A egomaniacs. It's a little harder when after the race you've got a band, food trucks, a brewery, etc.......

We really need to re-think this stuff. My wife has commented about how depressing the road races I've done seem. But how fun the duathlon and fondos and gravel races I've done seemed.


I'm done............

Young black kids seriously love riding bikes.
It's the sport of cycling that just isn't cool to them, since it's essentially a bunch of middle aged, rich white people in spandex looking goofy af sitting outside a coffee shop. Why aren't more young blacks into golf? Sure, Tiger gave it a boost back in the 90s, but it didn't change anything. It's old, rich white people shit.

Specialized jumped the shark with this one. You don't blame an entire sport for not being inclusive enough if the communities "excluded" simply don't give a shit about a sport that doesn't interest them in the first place. Professional cycling simply isn't relevant to mainstream Americans, and so it isn't seen as cool in African American communities. Why isn't Cricket in America more inclusive and representative of minorities???? Because we don't give a shit.

Who's suppose to fix this? UCI affirmative action? Force teams to hire minimum 1 black, 1 asian, and 1 woman manager?
It's a non-problem. Competitive cycling just isn't cool. People are saying it's too expensive, but guess what, in the black community flaunting your wealth is literally the most revered thing in the entire popular culture. You'd think showing off your $16,000 S-Works would be like showing off your 2 million dollar Bugatti, but there simply is little to no cultural interest.

Couldn't agree more

First off, I'm white. Very white. As in Mash Potatoes are just Irish Guacamole white.

With that said, my cycling group is 75% black. Even the "group leader." Maybe we are an outlier, but we are about 20 long time middle aged friends with advanced educations and good paying jobs that like to meet on weeks and some weeknights and go bike riding together. We have been doing this for years. By the way, we have a cop, a judge, several lawyers, an ad exec, a doctor, and the rest are senior managers and executives. So I guess we a bunch of middle aged (white and black) (semi-)rich people in spandex looking goof af siting outside a coffee shop.

I would postulate that $$$ and education probably has more to do with it than skin color.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

.....................

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What he ^^^^ said.
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Cycling and triathlon aren't "cool sports" in the USA and they are both expensive.Hop on a plane to some countries and white folks are a tiny minority at cycling events and triathlons.
...

This videos shows that Specialised has bought into the anti white male narrative with the premise being that white males have made "rules" to stop black guys racing.Of course they didn't show a black female cyclist,they showed a white female as the one who "understands" the plight of the downtrodden black community.They didn't show any white guys in a positive light,just a white female who understands because you know, "white guys".
Someone who was a fan of the Gillette ad pitched this idea to Specialised.

I will venture to say that most people in bike / tri racing are part of the 5-10% top earner (or child of).

Furthermore, most of those people competing in those are not making a leaving standing on their feet.

Having more role models could help the representation... but fix the income distribution issues, is the real solution.

pretty much.. get woke, go broke..specialized. Not a fan.

It's income and interest in the US. Pretty simple.

Might even be some chicken/egg going on. It takes a lot of money, so most people have no interest. I don't think it's a race thing at all. Hell, even people with money often lose interest in even trying to sport just because of the cost.

An anecdotal example...

I recently encouraged a friend of mine (a white, female, doctor). To do a local sprint triathlon. She was excited. Then she saw that it was $50.00 just to register. Which, lets be honest, is pretty cheap for a race. She was actually shocked that the "short" event cost that much.

She needed the basics to get started. She was already a runner, but needed new shoes. But lets say she was just getting started and had to get a $100 pair of shoes for training/racing.
She needed a cheap wet suit. She purchased the super cheap XTerra one for ~$125.
She then realized she needed goggles/swim cap - ~$25
She already owned an ok commuter bike so she didn't need a new bike. But Imagine if she did...


So now, in her mind she's $180+ into this..just to try it. When I said that she might want to invest in some tri shorts (the cheapest I could find were $50) she basically said that was enough. She would just change into some padded commuter shorts in transition.

At first I laughed but then realized that the upfront cost to just TRY your average tri is pretty high. Economics or not - $150+ to just try something you may never want to do again is pretty high.

Of course there is an inclusivity problem, not based on gender or skin color but on socioeconomic status. Triathlon is full of middle to high income earners who can justify the race fees and equipment expenses.

Specialized's cheapest road bike costs a months wage for someone on minimum wage here. Simply getting more people with darker skin to ride doesn't fix inequality but it is a great PR campaign.

I think competing triathlon is incredibly inclusive. Hilariously inclusive, almost to a fault.

What other sports out there are amateurs allowed to compete directly with and against pros on the same course?
What other sports out there allow males and females to compete directly without adjusting the distance/difficulty of the event to discriminate/accommodate one gender?
What other sports out there allow amateurs to compete against people their own age category for the entirety of their life?
What other sports allow for individuals with disabilities to get out and compete along side the able-bodied?
What other sport has specific categories for larger, heavier, fatter athletes? Relay Teams for individuals who want to participate but only want to do one leg? Hell, even corporate CEOs get their own category.
Events are available on every continent on Earth and no geographic people dominate.

So, as far as I can tell, triathlon is neither ageist, sexist, racist, ableist, weightist, or nationalist.

The only barriers to entry I see are "can you afford it" and "time". 3 sports is 2 more than 1.

Being upset when you pick a sport/job field (STEM)/university and don't see "enough" *insert under-represented group here* (minorities/females/LGBTs) for your individual liking, then blame the sport, create advertisements telling consumers that is it somehow a problem...their problem, and they are somehow oppressing individuals who have no interest in the thing in the first place, now seems to be the battle cry of the modern political left.

At first I laughed but then realized that the upfront cost to just TRY your average tri is pretty high. Economics or not - $150+ to just try something you may never want to do again is pretty high.

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I actually think the bigger barrier to entry is actual the fact that you have to train for 3 sports before even trying it. This isn't a 5k 45 min workout where you can just "walk" if you enter the 5k event 2 weeks from now because your boss and co-workers want to do it. Now you pretty much have to do *some* swim/bike/running before you can just do it. I mean granted you could actually just go do it, but no one does that. But I see lots and lots of people who do a 5k for charity, etc and never "train" for it. But you really dont just randomly pick a tri and do it in a few weeks. You have to have *some* ability just to get to the finish when you combine doing all 3 at once.

So what I've always said is that triathlon simply being 3 sports is the biggest barrier add in that one of those is swimming....Doesnt Red Cross stats showcase that what 50% of Americans can/dont swim?


And your sport is something that half the population cant do.....yeah your niche of the niche at that point.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

 Terrible advertisement. Offend your core market.

It is funny reading this thread coming from a alpine ski background. Entry barriers include living near snow, living near mountains, desire to be in cold environment. Desire to spend $ to buy lift ticket, gear, lessons. Desire to drive in snowstorm to practice enough to not break leg, break neck, fall off cliff, get buried in avalanche etc.

Convince yourself you are having fun until you are good enough to actually have fun.

Related to how you get into sub groups of skiers, snow boarders, telemarkers and mono boarders. They are all similar but different, kind of like the latin based languages. Luckily I am fluent in all aspects so I can in effect go undercover within the different tribes and cross reference/pollinate ideas and techniques. As it turns out that is why I really like triathlon.

I even learned to speak DH bike and surfing and am always amazed at how little other people bounce around between the disciplines. For the most part each subject is worthy of a lifetime of study but after sufficient time and energy, each can be mastered. (see 10'000 hour thread). To me they are all gravity/flow sports and are related.

As far as race goes, why would some POC city folk want to go skiing if they have never even laid eyes on a mountain?

Which brings me to competition. These 'extreme ski events' take place in buttfuck no where (Thompson Pass, AK for example).
Where collection of trucks and RVs meet in desolate highway pullout in middle of winter and the competitors (15-20 tops) are wisked to some distant peak via helicopter and 3-4 judges sit huddled in a tent with binoculars on an adjacent peak and try to define and reward such tenuous aspects of style and aggression and line choice. LOL.

Nowadays organizers setup up live FB streams and the like but back in the early 2000s there might be no camera crew. Just random names on result sheets that hopeful inspire sponsors to keep laying out cash for no obvious ROI... But dang skiing is fun!

Laughable.
All specialized cares about is having another demographic to sell their bikes to. This isn’t about social progression, rather economic expansion.

IMO, FasterTwitch got it right.

Triathlon doesnt have an "active" inclusivity problem in the sense that minorities are kept out due deliberate/due to malice/racism/whatever. However, systemic differences are what lead to a disproportional representation, and the main ones are:
- socio-economic factors
- lack of role models to emulate

The question is - does it matter if people of ethnicity X dont *want* to play a particular sport? I would say no - I would say it only matters if someone wants to participate in a particular sports but is prevented/discouraged from doing so, which doesnt seem to be the case here.

Of course, in this day and age of shrill hyperbole, it is impossible to have a reasoned discussion on these issues without SJWs going ballistic and screaming "racism" at the drop of a hat, which sets back any kind of freaking progress by years.

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Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope

That is impressive that you are able to make such broad generalizations based on skin color. Is the love for racing bikes and flaunting wealth a genetic disposition of blacks? Does it vary within the population? For instance are Caribbean blacks are more or less likely than American born blacks to love racing bikes and flaunting wealth? Do tell......

OK so I actually watched this. What is interesting about it? I actually found it quite boring. It is an advertisement based on virtue signaling to sell bikes to a target market of woke/self hating white people. They were not as ridiculous about it as Gillette, but still very dumb. Is Treks counterpunch going to be a similarly melodramatic spot on underrepresented non binary cyclists? Again, so dumb.

hispanic/black minorities are groomed to big ball sports as they excel their much better than white folk. The cost to enter is cheap, every damn town has a basketball hoop and you just need a $5 ball. So yes it is economic factor too. I was sad when I was teaching homeless minority kids swim lessons (free for them, via grant program). I saw so much potential talent... and then the program ended and back to football/basketball they went. Justin Williams is no joke... crushing many crits out here , I wonder why he isnt on any sponsored tour team

And swim participation is even worse in black communities. Our local Y has been trying for years to get more black kids into swim lessons. A few years back a few black teenagers drowned in relatively swallow water. They were screaming for help, but no one in their large group on-shore knew how to swim either, a terrible tragedy.

Every quarter our Y offers "swim for life" week long swim lessons to anyone in the community. Love it cus we'll see whole families learning to swim, etc.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II