My experience at IM Wales in 2016 contradicts all your points.

Not sure about all those points (don't remember) but IM France, one of the toughest bike courses on the circuit has a 16 hour cut-off versus the 17s I see here in the states. Also bike catchers to add to the T2 point of yours.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I did IM New Zealand a couple of years ago. The support there was nothing short of amazing and the volunteers were incredible. Far exceeded what I expected

Aside from the pump 'issue' then agree IMNZ has all that covered. IMAustria, then disagree with the above comments too, although was a few years back.

However, I would prefer to hang my bag myself if given the option - a helmet of mine got killed in 2012/13 as the volunteers were moving the T2 bags and I ended up with a large dent in the front from where it was thrown. Not 100% their fault, chances are they didn't realise how fragile helmets are.

So bike support and more volunteers in transition (btw I’ve done about 15 half’s around the US and don’t recall any races having that support other than bike tech)

Having a hard time getting on board that this is “coddling”. As I understand it. More support, sure but your choice of words indicates you think that the type of support you mention is a “bad thing”.

I’ve done one US Ironman, 2 Canada and 1 Mexico. They all had what you describe. Never had a flat knock wood (and now I will) so cant comment on sag suppprt)

So the coddling comment actually came from the perspective of the Irish racer and a few other racers from Europe. It wasn't meant to be mean. Their point was Americans were used to having volunteers/bike support help them along when europeans were using to going it alone and being more self sufficient.

I made comments like I was surprised that I didn't see bike support on the course at all and not seeing a volunteer in sight during T1/T2 and their response was.. oh yeah that is an American race thing. It's different elsewhere. Of course they had a big laugh over the wetsuit strippers.

I haven't noticed any difference between the ironmans I've done (2 in Canada and 2 in US) but I'm not sure if I would even notice. I'm (hopefully) in transition for such a short time and never in need of bike support to really notice a difference. I do notice on course marshals though, or the absence of them sometimes.

I think some of these observations will be dependent on how fast your are. If you are a strong swimmer then you might always have a volunteer helping you unpack and repack your bag, etc. If you are a 1:20 swimmer or slower, like me, then its just pure mayhem in the changing tents so the volunteers are stretched super thin. I would assume the same for cyclists as well and getting through the run transition, though by then the field is definitely more spread out.

Racing in NA, I see a big difference in support between 140.6s and 70.3s. In your international experience, are 140.6s supported like 70.3s?

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Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour

Are the costs significantly different, or do North America RDs provide more value? It should be turned around and said that those races provide less value. I'm pay $700 for an Ironman, there better be good support! Ya dig?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I guess since the races are so expensive, I expect those things. As far as bike support in an IM to fix flats or mechanicals, If you get a flat and are waiting on bike support, it’s going to be awhile so you’re losing a bunch of time.

I agree much more support in the 140.6 races. But in the many American 70.3 races, I can only think of Santa Rosa where they make you pack your stuff up in a bag after you exchange gear. Most of the American races have volunteers handing you your bag. And I can remember the sunblock folks in all American races. In the European based races I’ve experienced (and spoken to others) there are no volunteers assigned to grab your bag off a numbered hook, dump it, repack it, then re-rack your bag on a numbered hook. It is extra running to do this in both transitions.

I guess that’s my point - there were zero volunteers to help anyone no matter how fast you were.

It sounds like you were hanging around Euro trash douchebags spreading unnecessary anti-American attitudes. Race support is not coddling. I guess in Europe they don’t have support on the swim either? They just let you drown (pink).

FWIW... I have had great support when racing in Canada and Mexico. Very equal to the level of support found at US races. Now, when I did IM Frankfurt in 2009, it was a very different story. Few volunteers in/around transition, very few pumps to be found (I brought my own thankfully), no strippers, no Special Needs bags (had to have a friend find you on course and give you whatever you need).

I loved the race, and would do it again. Just pointing out some differences I noticed.

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Team Zoot-Texas, and Pickle Juice

I've done 14 IMs - 7 in the U.S. and 7 outside of the U.S. including Norway, Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, South Africa, and Cozumel (x2). Based on that experience, I cannot agree with you at all. What I have noticed from all those races were some minor differences that over time, I believe are disappearing. For example:

- Special needs. These bags are always available in North American IMs but were not available in several of the European IMs I've done. However, the concept seems to be taking root in Europe now. I am racing IM Ireland this week and we had to compete an online form in advance whether you want a special needs bag for the bike, and/or the run. I assume this is to save on plastic instead of issuing everyone the bags without asking them if they want it.

- Bike covers. These are NOT permitted in North America so imagine my surprise when I did my first IM in Europe at Regensburg, Germany in 2011 and they not only required them, but issued them to everyone. They were also issued to everyone when I did IM Sweden in 2013. Then I went to IM Switzerland in 2016 and they allowed you to use your own but stated that the race would no longer issue them to save on plastic. I suspect the provided bike covers are going away in Europe as the no-cover rule goes worldwide.

- Coaching zones. While many of the races I've done in Europe did not provide special needs, they did have coaching zones where your coach or sherpa could hand you food, drink, equipment, etc. That is strictly forbidden in North American IMs. I suspect these will go away as special needs bags become more common in Europe.

- Cheerleaders. This won't fly in the current North American SJW culture, but cheerleaders along the course and especially on the red carpet seem to be de riguer at races organized under the IM Europe division.

- Body marking. The U.S. just cannot get away from this anachronism but the last several races I've done in Europe have not required it. European officials and race photographers seem to manage just fine using only the helmet number, bike number and bib number.

I would say that I've noticed a difference between the North American IMs I've done versus the non-North American IMs I've done in terms of things like cutoff times, special needs availability/access, variety of products available at aid stations (ice and sun screen in particular), changing tents availability/volunteer help, road closures and probably some other things I'm not remembering. I've done a few IMs in Canada and found them to be very similar to the U.S., but noticed a difference in the European and South American races IMs I've done.

"Wetsuit peelers" is the correct term.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Oh the irony.

The only guy here displaying an unnecessary, and insulting attitude, based on nationality is you. And you're doing it in the same sentence you use to criticise this trait in others. Are you in any way kidding?

I've only done one 70.3 and that was in the US so don't really have a frame of reference. Could part of the reason that you don't see as much in the way of support, logistics, and volunteers at some non-US races is because some of these places just don't have the local resources available to provide it? Looking at the map of the IM races it is pretty clear that some of these races are in remote or economically depressed countries.

??? Please provide examples and let us know your methodology for both "remote" and "economically depressed"

ETA: It should be noted, though it doesn't seem you read any other responses, that the discussion is pretty much between European races and North American races



So why are you replying?

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I've only done one overseas IM in Europe (Copenhagen) and felt we had everything we needed for the race. Swim caps were much nicer! (thicker and softer). No wetsuit strippers but not a big deal. I didn't have help in transition like I did in US IMs but I was fine. It's easier for me to just do my own thing. Not as many people used special needs so it's not as streamlined as in say IMLP or IMMT. But I got my bottles quickly without problem. I thought volunteers where great and plenty of aid stations on both bike and run. They even gave out cold wet sponges on a cloudy 70F day. My only complaint was food after the race. No simple stuff like bananas, orange slices, chips, pretzels. Just pizza with cheese and meat. ugh...but I was only a 2 min walk from my Air B&B.

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Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

  
(Quote}
I've only done one 70.3 and that was in the US so don't really have a frame of reference. Could part of the reason that you don't see as much in the way of support, logistics, and volunteers at some non-US races is because some of these places just don't have the local resources available to provide it? Looking at the map of the IM races it is pretty clear that some of these races are in remote or economically depressed countries.[/quote]
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Oh dear,what a statement..
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Every now and then somebody posts here and truly confirms the ignorance of some Americans.Please tell us which races are "remote" and which countries are too "economically depressed" to host an Ironman in the manner that US citizens are used to.

Strange because by making these points, I believe you are supporting the point that there are quite a few differences in the North American races versus European/Asian races. The special needs area differences are pretty significant in my opinion.

And I agree with you and forgot about the body marking. In Greece/Europe they could care less about body marking and definitely didn't care about adding your age to your leg. Fascinating since so many like to argue that they need to know if they are racing next to a competitor in their age group.

I agree with not needing some of the stuff. Like after my first IM, I didn't want another person ripping my wetsuit off of me. But I have to say the T1/T2 volunteer assistance helps with time when it comes to repacking your gear and running extra distance to re-rack it on a specific number. In my last race, those racks were a little off the beaten path when it came to grabbing or re-racking your bike. So do you ultimately need it, no, but it saves minutes in the transitions in overall race time. I would say the same about taking the time to apply your own sunscreen. So we are back to discussing these extra "luxuries" during these north american races.