well, it wouldn't be the first time a belgian does well in kona despite being on noone's map in the US :-)

Beke took 3rd at IMF the year before, as well as second in Nice triathlon in 2003...if you follow a bit the euro tri scene, you would have known.

I liked Hawaii. But then again, the last time I was there was '87 as a journalist and '86 as a competitor. It has changed since then.........

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Now you bring up a good question. Does Kona suck? As the oldest of the Ironman events it has a certain grandmotherly quality to it. It also has hot Hawaiin chicks and that goes a long long long way to being wonderful. Dark brown Hawaiin chicks on surf boards...riding the waves...long dark hair wet and slicked back...legs flexing to control their boards...

Sorry! Back to the case at hand. I will need five grand and two round trip tickets to next years event. Press pass. Titan-Flex. Entery spot.

Email me where to send the goods and I will get you an answer.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

are you serious? who had heard of beke? he was 5th at nice in 2001, 3rd at nice in 2002, 3rd at IM FLA in 2002, and 2nd at LC worlds in 2003! where were you looking that you hadn't heard of him?

are you also going to tell me that you don't know Francois Chabaud, Cyril Neveu, or Gilles Reboul (just to single out some stud frenchies), simply because they race primarily in europe too? they're all consistent LC contenders, so if you don't know them, you're only watching 1 race per year...IMH. perhaps that's why you're bored.

Sorry off the subject but did you do IMFL. I hunted for your name. I thought you had entered? If so how did you do.

I love the Hawaii Ironman, but on the other hand, I can't say that I disagree with you.

Every year I get soooooo excited as the race approaches, and now ever since LVL has had a downturn, it ends up being anti-climatic. Maybe that's "sour grapes" on my part simply because Luc isn't winning. I'm sure the Reid/DeBoom crowd has loved the last few years, following the play-by-play on the internet or whatever.

The bummer for me is that I don't have a "hero" at the front right now. Nothing against Reid or DeBoom -- becasue they are awesome athletes -- but they just don't capture my attention the way that champions of the past have (Scott, Allen, and Van Lierde).

It would have been great this year to have been able to see a healthy DeBoom and a resurgent Reid go at it all the way to the finish.

Maybe Dave will comeback at 50 and win the thing again.

Here's my take on hawaii as an event as opposed to a RACE.

The race almost becomes secondary to the event. Similar to the superbowl or the world series. The race is important, but it is an event. Why is this? The way I heard it explained best is that every sport has its hallowed ground. For us triathletes, that hallowed ground is in Hawaii. This is the place where legends are made. A great example is the 1989 race where the torch was passed from Scott to Allen. Out there on the marathon course is "Mark and Dave's Hill" where Mark Allen made the surge that gave him his first win. There is the Queen K highway, and who can forget the Natural Enemy Lab.

This is an exclusive event for the best of the best. We all aspire to just BE there. To experience the event just as our heroes have year after year. It's like the cobbles of Paris-Roubaix, Alpe de Huez, the Galibier. It's the Kluisberg in the Tour of Flanders. We see people who win these races as champions because of the great history and tradition. This is the same at IM Hawaii.

Having a good day here can mean putting your name on a very elite list. Having a bad day here and you are forgotten. The dynamic of the race has changed from a race of attrition to one of tactics and intelligence. There are more and more fit men and women who CAN win the race. Only those who are perfect on the day do. For them, it is stepping into the group of legends who have one. For those who are not perfect. There is next year.

Long winded, corny, but this is quite and event!

Craig

Two things:

1.The newcomers and old guard you mentioned who have all claimed or others have claimed for them that they would be able to win IMH with a blazing bike split have NOT been able to do that. Indeed, none of them with all due respect has even come close. It was proven many years ago that you you can't win that race with just a fast bike split - Hellreigel was tracked down by Mark Allan after leading off the bike by nearly 14 minutes! You have always had to run well to do well at IMH and that is still the case today.

2. Hawaii the same as an ITU race - hardly. They are two very different races within the same sport. It's like comparing Paris- Roubaix and the Tour de France - two very different races within the same sport. Lance Armstrong is one of the greatest cyclists of all time, but he rarely if ever( I am not sure on this point) contests Paris-Roubaix. Like wise Van Petergen this year's winner of Paris-Roubaix, I don't think even started the Tour de France or if he did he may have dropped out or was so far back in the standings to be insignificant.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

The one big huge gigantic point that is being missed here its that Hawaii is the championship. Peroid. This whole thread sounds like baseball fans trying to explain away thier teams loss at the world series as really a win do to some stupid and pointless stats.

You want to be the world champion at the Ironman distance? Win in Hawaii. Winning times don't matter. Tradition doesn't matter. My spelling doesn't matter. It's all in Kona and all the but...but...buts in the world won't change that.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

I had nasty stomach problems during the night and in the morning it had triggered an atrial fibrillation (some type of arrhythmia, that I have had a couple of times in the past)...
I didn't want to be swimming in the ocean with my heart not pumping quite right...

"The bummer for me is that I don't have a "hero" at the front right now. Nothing against Reid or DeBoom -- becasue they are awesome athletes -- but they just don't capture my attention the way that champions of the past have"

You've hit the nail on the head. In any sporting event , the fans are always wanting to see new records being set. It's not been happening at IM Kona. Consequently we then lament over "the good old days".

Good points, Craig - you are getting there.

From what I see there are some paralells with pro cycling. It's generally regarded that the Tour de France is the biggest and most important cycling race of the year and that Lance Armstrong is the best cyclist in the world right now( with respect to Armstrong, a debatable point). However, the TDF winner is not the World Champion, that honour goes to the Spaniard Astralobe(sp). Over the course of the cycling season, niether Armstrong or Astralobe wpould be considered the best cyclist - that honour likly goes to Carlos Bettini, who seemed to be "in there" in almost every major race this year - the TDF included.

In triathlon, we have Ironman Hawaii, the self proclaimed "World Championship" that in may ways is similar to the Tour de France - Not all of the best, but the best who do well in that event, in those conditions, at that time of year. That prestigious honour and the very high profile went to Peter Reid. There is an ITU Long Distance Triathlon Champion who this year is Torbjorn Sindaballe. Unfortunately it's Torbjorn, who? for many. There is also the man who many consider to be the best all rounder right now - Simon Lessing. Who won no super high profile event all year, but did well or won, in all formats, at all distances, all year long.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Astralobe? That kind of made me laugh... and is the winner of the World Cup named Paolo Sastre? :-)



Seriously, can't you do a search on the Net of the exact names before you post? Everybody, including you, could learn a bit from it.

For the record the Cycling World champion is Igor Astarloa. The winner of the Cycling World Cup Paolo Bettini. The ITU LD World Champion is Eneko Llanos, not Torbjorn Sindballe.



Paulo

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I'm really sorry . I know you had trained hard and invested much time. I feel for you. Would have liked to meet you.



This doesn't mean that I won't be giving you more S_ _ T from time to time.

Hey Smart Ass( Well, that is your handle!),

I noted the incorrect spelling of Astraloa in my post. Thank you for ging me/us the correct one. Most appreciated.

As to the Sindballe, my apologies. I did pull that result off the Web, but I had gone to the wrong Web site - the European Long Course Championships Vs the World Championships. You are right Llanos was the winner there.

Generally, as to my spelling and grammer, I take the lead directly from our fearless leader here at Slowtwitch, the Slowman himself, Dan Empfield, who in posting on chat boards is notorious for poor spelling and never using caps.

All that being said, I still stand by my main message in the post which I believe IS correct and relevent.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

some close friends and family are currently fighting Cancer...
so a little a-fib and not being able to do a good ironman so far is really no big deal...maybe it will come, maybe it won't...but I'd rather see them healthy and have shit races the rest of my life.

"Generally, as to my spelling and grammer, I take the lead directly from our fearless leader here at Slowtwitch, the Slowman himself........who in posting on chat boards is notorious for poor spelling and never using caps. "

i figur he muss not yuse his spellcheker on dis foram because his writngs are not neer as artikulate as those when he rights about bikes an triantlen on Slowtwitch.

Steven,

I see your point... but I think the other two-thirds of the Holy Trinity spell correctly all the time, so I'll stick to that :-)



Paulo

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I think it will return to glory in about a two years. Ya gotta think LA will contest the race one day, after the TDF in all done with. Who knows what his run will be like but he will Blow the bike to pieces. That will be a great day indeed.

I see nothing wrong with the second paragraph of your post. It looks normal to me.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

LA says he won't do IM --don't recall where but he was interviewed post TDF in '02 and he laughed and said that IM is "too hard"

It would be interesting to put that motor (and that level of training) into an IM machine though.

From a spectator standpoint - and that can mean reading about it months later, yes Roth perhaps will always be the most exciting event. Lothar Leder and Macca in a sprint finish at an IM in the low 8:00's - it is what that lifetime fitness guy dreams about for his joke of a triathlon with the 'equalizer' format.

Hawaii has lived out many lives. It does seem that the media angle has interfered with the purity of the race and thus forced out a long standing and well liked race director, changing the course and bringing in strange rules. However, in the end, it is about the person who covers 140.6 miles the fastest, tactics or all out.

I think you have to take into account the bigger picture that the competitive landscape of the pro men race is evolving. There are a lot of 'newer' pros that will figure things out, remember that DeBoom did not earn his crown until his 9th try(correct me if I'm wrong), just like some of his predecessors (yes I know there are exceptions like 1st time winner and course record holder Van Lierde.) As a general rule, no matter what you do elsewhere in IM, all bets are off at Hawaii, thus the intrigue.

So we sit back and wait for next year. That is what keeps us interested. For now we are unsatisfied with the tactical race yet DeBoom said it himself that he is not 'giving' anything away on the bike, that is just how fast he rides. Period.

When I say it is an evolving group, these guys aren't stupid and hopefully will use the stagger rule to thier advantage. Remember that Larsen was not 100% and he alone has the biggest single effect on the bike leg. Had he been OK, there are 4 guys that could have stayed with him...Lieto, Macca, Helrigel and Stadler (and maybe Leder.) Had these guys put 15 minutes on the rest, I have to think one of them could have stayed in front and the rest would have at least been in the top 10. But guys had off days (Larsen and Macca.) The others I'm sure had thier own reason to not go alone with the stagger - peleton action happening.

I hope for 2 things. 1. OLN to buy the TV rights somehow and show it live. 2. I hope someone breaks it open by going off the front of the bike and never letting up on the run, posting a 2:45. I won't stop there, I want Macca to be the person to do it b/c I like his style and think he's got the right idea. For now, it is what it is and we have to accept that Peter Reid is the best of the best. It is up to the others to knock him off...at Hawaii.

>>Here's my take on hawaii as an event as opposed to a RACE.

The race almost becomes secondary to the event. Similar to the superbowl or the world series. The race is important, but it is an event.<<

I'd have to agree with this. Sure, it's a race for the pros and for maybe a small group within each age group, but for many, GETTING to Kona (as opposed to being there and racing it) is the goal.

I like to go each year because (1) it's week in Hawaii, (2) I get to see a very large number of friends from all over the world, all in one place at one time, (3) I usually know a number of people racing, so it's fun to watch them, and (4) it IS an event.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

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