I look at it this way; you don't ''win'' your age group, you finish first in your age group. There is only one winner, well two, there's a men's winner and a women's winner. It just sounds foolish to say you ''won'' something when you came in 50th overall.

That said, I have one win to my credit; a local 5k in the cold pouring rain. The fast guys must have stayed home, but I got to run the race behind the lead vehicle and break the tape when I crossed the finish line. I've got lots of age group awards but, this is one of the only awards I've held on to.

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Most of the time for me it's about my time(s) and execution. I'm pretty hard on myself especially at masters swim meets. Winning my overall event (or my AG) means little to me. If I swim a shit time or pace a race poorly I'm not satisfied. It's not always going to be PB but I want to always set myself up for a good result. I carry that mentality into triathlon and evaluate my performances in a similar way.

I'd rather get a photo with the my fellow overall podium finishers at a local/regional race and head home. No need to wait a few hours for awards at a non national race.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Like I posted above for masters I'm more concerned about time/execution. My real competition is racing in some other country and I find out later where I stack up when FINA releases their top ten lists.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I'm going to give you Swimming World (SW) magazine's viewpoint. Most of you have never heard of SW but since 1960 it has been the main voice of swimming in the U.S. It has been somewhat eclipsed by Mel Stewart's Swimswam web site and magazine but I think SW still carries a lot of weight. Every year SW picks the top 10 or 12 swims of the year and a few years ago, a guy in Canada became the first person ever to compete in a Masters meet in the 105-109 AG. SW picked his swim has one of the top 12 swims of the year (2015 IIRC), and please note this was NOT the top 12 Masters swims of the year but the top 12 swims period, e.g. including Phelps, Lochte, Ledecky, etc. So, I would say that the semi-official view of the "voice of swimming" is that it does not matter if there is anyone else in your AG or not, not even in the whole world. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Hey I won 'C' in a Zwift CVR crit tonight, and won first on a Strava segment in 45-49. Suck it.

Cycling Canada changed it's politics a few years ago about giving out medals and jerseys to Para-cyclists, Masters and juniors at the Canadian National Track cycling Championships, even if there wasn't 4 people minimum in the event. When I chatted with the chief commissaire, she told me they decided that every participant deserved a medal or jersey if they did the performance, regardless of how many people showed up.

Louis :-)

Weird perspective.

So any sport I don't take part in should consider me beaten?
I never realised I've been losing all these years at golf, motorsports, tennis, basketball, rugby, football, squash, long jump, dog sledding, skiing, curling,..........
I thought I just wasn't interrested.

By your argument, if you're the only person who takes part in a race, you're the best in the world. You are saying that not choosing an event is akin to being beaten at it. Is that the case if I've never heard of the event?
What if there are multiple events the same day? Do I lose at all of them?
Seems a little deluded to me.

Enjoy your own performances but stop fooling yourself. You can win without beating anyone.
You are really arguing for credit purely for participating. That's fine. But don't dress it up as some victory over others.

Oh boy, I really hope you just forgot to put that in pink font!

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

I don't think there's a simple version of the approach you're taking.
Given your argument, would it not be equally valid to say women should say they came first in their gender (unless they beat all the men too). The grouping of AGs is more arbitrary but is still an attempt to have everyone compete against their "peers" in a mass participation race just like male and female categories.

Let me put it this way.
If you went to a track race meet and junior, senior and veteran athletes ran in different races, just like the male and female athletes do not share the track. Your logic, to me, dictates that either the senior race, or the race with the fastest winning time, has a winner and none of the others do. But they ran different races.

Mass participation events like triathlons and long distance running generally put everyone out there at once. I would see it primarily as multiple races being run simultaneously, but it is really a hybrid since overall positions are also recorded and this confuses things. I say everyone who wins one of the categories is a winner since that category is a race in it's own right. However, I don't think there's a morally, or logically correct answer due to the dual nature of the arrangement.

I agree. One winner, but lots of "1'st place in XYZ category"

Look at NASCAR or American Ninja Warrior. Men and women compete against each other and there is 1 winner. Although Danica was the 1'st woman to finish (when she didn't crash) she didn't get a winner's paycheck.

The first step to winning is just showing up. Sometimes that's the hardest part, because there are always a whole bunch of reasons NOT to race.

If you're the only one in your age group, that just means that of all the potential competitors, you were the only one with the will to actually toe that starting line that day.

You're not a douche for doing that, you're a freakin' ROCKSTAR.

Nonsense. You're assigning meaning where it isn't to facilitate self deception.
How many races do you do a year? Is it a failure of will that you don't do every race there is? Of course not, that logic is just stupid. You choose one or several races and do what you want to do. If I don't take part, you don't get to claim victory over me. Completely absurd!
Can't you be pleased with your own performance in isolation without needing to imagine you're better than people who aren't even there?

I'm trying to decide if this is just the product of an abstract hypothetical discussion, or if you actually mean you literally apportion credit like this!

Hello TheRock and All,


Re: Do you really win if no one else turns up? [TheRock]

An example might be Neil getting to the moon first .... no one else turned up ..... (Well .....

maybe the other crew members ....)

I would still say he was first and had a legitimate win.



should Hiromu be denied a win?




.... at age 85 ..... he was first in more ways than one ....

https://purpose2play.com/...rson-finish-ironman/

In covering 140.6 miles, Hiromu Inada, at 85, has traveled more miles in one day than most 85 year-olds travel in a single year.

On Saturday, the Japanese triathlete became the oldest person to finish the Kona IRONMAN World Championship, and even beat his own personal record in the process.
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I think we take each of our efforts in context .... context counts .....

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

I've been entering races of various sorts for 40 years and, outside of a few years in high school swimming against other small schools, I have very rarely ever sniffed a podium. Racing in Boulder for 10 years, I would sometimes finish DFL being beat in small races by 'AG' racers who I'd seen on magazine covers as 20 years earlier...so be it. I'm mostly in this to challenge myself against myself and if I beat a guy ( who may have had a recent knee replacement) or lose to a guy who may have a couple World Cup medals (or JV letters!) I don't feel too much different about my race.

That said, every now and then nobody else shows up and it is fun to step up on a milk-crate podium at a Turkey Trot or an X-terra race and enjoy a small share of glory.

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978