I'm a bit confused by your examples... you're saying a woman in a mixed-gender crit places 15th overall, 1st woman and because she was not first overall you are wondering if she deserves a medal (edit I just noticed that you specified she is the only woman)?

Or a guy who wins his age group - you are questioning whether that counts because he is old and did not finish first overall? Even though he beat everyone else in his AG?

An AG win that is 11th overall is not a win, even if there were other people in the AG?

The only win is first overall, nothing else?

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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still a win. I can't control who shows up. first and foremost in any race I have specific some combination of time/pace/power output goals in mind. I'm racing against myself in a way. If I'm familiar with the field and course I might have a sense of if I may have a chance to podium. If I meet or exceed those goals I normally consider it a success unless I feel like I didn't push myself hard enough. If I am the only one in my age group and podium as a result...oh well...I showed up. It's not my fault others did not. I never choose races based on if I can podium or not. I choose them often if they're near me or if it's an interesting venue or if it's something like an IM where I have limited options.

I know someone that has done pretty well out of this. I think his 10k best is a mid to long 36min so was never a podium contender at most local races, but he realised that a growing number of events of ten run 5k fun runs along side the 10k or multisport event. These events particularly the small local ones usually attract small fields of mainly fun runners so he could grab a podium. He would even badger the organisers to check no faster guys might turn up. If worded cleverly on social media it can seem like you won the main event. Since then he has moved on to Aquathons where even the national champs usually have well under 10 people per age group. These podiums and some professional photo sessions have enabled him to be seen as an influencer. He has picked up sponsorship from decent brands such polar hr monitors, asic shoes and zone three wetsuits / tri kit along with countless other smaller sponsors. He has also been a guest speaker at the London Tri show, and been special guest star at a number of events. If you are brazen enough to play the self marketing game it can pay off. I am unsure if his sponsors see much return on investment, but supplying free gear and a bit of a race fee is cheaper than paying a pro or buying ad space I guess.

A win is a win. It doesn't matter who shows up. While I want to "win" that is rarely my primary goal. Primary goal is always to nail my race plan and get the best time for myself.

Heck yeah. A win's a win.

I'm reminded of the Lake Placid Loppet ski race, where during the awards ceremony some competitors were still out racing, or just finishing......

Heck yeah they're winners!

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http://www.jt10000.com/

No troll.
Just some banter with friends.
Really it's been 8 years?
Thanks for checking up on me.
You are like a wannabe James Bond.

The race isn't just from the start line to the finish line. It's from youth to old age. It's from fit to fat. It's from health to ill health. It's from lifestyle, to consequences. It's from a warm bed to a cold dirty lake, or hot windy road, or wet rainy hills... on training days and race days. It's from injury to recovery. I got up and did the training, survived the injuries, brave the conditions, stayed fit, and stayed away from the alcohol, bad habits, donuts and pizza... toed the line and won my age group, weather or not anyone else showed up. If you didn't show up to kick my ass, that's your problem, not mine. I got the win.

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Athlinks / Strava

For me? For-sure this... I finished dead last in my AG my first tri in '08 (a sprint)... I've stuck with it and have become the moper I'm proud to be all these years later... I've been on the podium a few times in smaller events, but I definitely try and keep it in perspective... I also had a DNF in IMAZ last year after finishing it in '16. I'm keeping that in perspective too... For me triathlon is my lifestyle... I swim, bike and run. I do resistance training... I do these things because I enjoy the training. For me, a race is just a focus for my training. A way to keep me motivated to get my ass out the door and be active... How I perform in the event is my report card... Am I ok with placing 3rd in my AG if only 4 show up? Yep... But no one else gives a shit. And that's ok... It's my report card...

I'm going to run a half-mary in a few weeks.(hopefully) My first event since AZ... I've set a goal to be sub 2hrs... I wake up with the aches and pains that all of us get as we age. Skip some runs and take a long walk instead... I wonder if I still have that time within me. I did 2 years ago on my 60th b-day. But two years ago - was - 2 years!

The run is a smaller local event. If I do well, I'll stick around for the awards ceremony... If I do podium will it be a hollow victory? If I get my sub 2, fuck no... But, however it turns out - I'll keep it in perspective... Best just to keep life in perspective... Especially when those aches and pains start becoming more frequent.

Well except for the avoiding donuts and alcohol BS, spot fucking on

I won a Masters 55+ crit last summer. Half the field were racing cat 1 in their youth and there was a guy in the field fresh off winning several medals at the masters track nationals. Sure, we were not quite as fast as the P12 field later in the day but I'm counting my win!

On the other hand, 2 years ago I got 3rd in a 3 race omnium where only 3 guys completed all three races. I count that as a last place, not a podium ;-)

As long as the race is open to anyone who wants to enter then a win is a win. It's not just the people that show up it's everyone out there that could have signed up that you beat.

posts like this are why we need an "upvote" button. Extremely well-articulated.

Run ultras. There is a female winner and a male winner. And usually that's it.

First off . . . if you've ever raced, you know that the better part of "racing" doesn't take place on race day. Racing happens the six to nine months you've trained your buttocks off in order to be your fastest for race day. Just because nobody or nobody fast shows up on race day doesn't mean those months of race prep are hollow or that the victory doesn't count. The victory goes to the one who has raced the best for all those months of training. A race never happens in a single day. A race day is just the culmination of a year's effort.

Count me as one of the old guys whose health is about to pull down the curtain. Arthritic knees have already killed my spring '19 season and will probably cancel the fall season, too. I would love to win ANY race this year -- and I would count it. I won't seek out a weak field to do it. But in the good races, somebody will take my place on the podium. I congratulate them.

Every race any experienced competitor wins fits along a sliding scale of satisfaction. Without a doubt, the close win over a strong overall field is one you'll never forget. But to be honest, I'll never forget my most unintentionally "hollow" victories, either. (I once won a bicycle road race overall by over 40 minutes -- over a field that should have eaten me for lunch. It was a fluke. So what! I still love it.) It's the victories in between that get lost with time. If you race enough, for long enough, you're going to have some victories that the OP wouldn't count (for anyone but himself). They're still a win.

And as for aging AG competitors . . . it's still a competition and the athletes there are still giving all they've got. 100% is 100% no matter your age. And 100% is harder to come by when the AG numbers move upward. Racing is easy when you're under 30. (It really is.) Come back when you're over 60 -- if you can.

I thought racing was about crushing dreams, drinking cold salty tears, and banishing rainbows...or something like that...

No, it’s about not having the race you want but the race you deserve in epic conditions

Interesting, fairly unusual IME to find a guy who runs 100/200 m and also 10K and longer events. Kudos on your versatility. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

This quote is going on my wall. There is much truth to this statement.

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Level II USAT Coach | Level 3 USAC Coach | NASM-CPT
Team Zoot | Tailwind Trailblazer
I can tell you why you're sick, I just can't write you an Rx

For the older folks, I look at it as they have outlasted their peers in the 'race of life'.
They are still racing while their peers may have succumbed to their obstacles.

Back in December I ran the Hot Chocolate 5K in Scottsdale AZ. My main goal was to break the 20min but unfortunately I came short 11 seconds. Either way, it was a huge PR for me (down from 22min and change) and looking at the results online later that day, I realized I finished third in my AG (M30-34). They didn't give medals for the 5K race (only for the 15K). A few weeks ago I received a package with a medal saying "3rd place". I'm not gonna lie.. I was pretty happy and proud of myself. Some can say that the field was weak and I agree, but I showed up and ran the race. I will take that spot proudly.

** correction: 2nd, not 3rd

Default: the two sweetest words in the English language

I had this conversation with my sister in law before a marathon this weekend. I think it depends on the person. I could care less about a win, and tend to go after a time goal majority of the time. I'd rather beat my goal and finish 15th rather than win and miss my goal.

You probably got it via roll down too cause probably top winners were in your AG (so really you got 6th AG). Sub masters folks should be aiming for overall status not AG.

No roll down, I just checked. For a second you totally stole my thunder.. hahah but it's back. ;)