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Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this?
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After riding the same road bike for 10 years, I started thinking it’s time for a well-deserved upgrade, and I bought a Specialized Tarmac Disc Pro -- it has ultegra hydraulic disc brakes. Before I bought it I asked anyone in my club who I saw with disc brakes how they found them and the response was always the same -- “They’re great!” I read articles and online reviews, and did not feel that the ‘cons’ that were mentioned were of any major concern to me: a little heavier, a little less aero, slight possibility of rotor causing injury in a crash... I’m all about safety, and I thought the sense of security that I would feel when riding in the rain, or if I were ever lucky enough to do an epic descent somewhere like in the alps or the pyrenees, were well worth any of those cons.
So now I’ve had the bike for a year, and the brakes will not stop rubbing. I take them back to the bike shop to get adjusted, and they’re okay for a while, then they start up again. Usually just when I’m going up a hill and riding hard out of the saddle, but lately it’s been worse. When I mention it to others, they say, “Yeah, mine do that too. That’s disc brakes.” So how come nobody mentioned that before? I love everything else about the bike, but the constant noise is really irritating. It’s hard to enjoy a quiet ride in the countryside, when you keep hearing “tsst.... tsst.... tsst...” A friend with the same problem also keeps going back to the shop, and he says he is expecting that there must be a way for them to eventually get dialled in, his argument being, “Do you think Peter Sagan puts up with this on his bike?” My response was No, I don’t, but he gets to have his disc brakes (along with the rest of his bike) tuned before every ride, whereas the rest of us are not so lucky.
I feel like this is something that should get mentioned more, when people talk about pros and cons of disc brakes. I would not have bought disc brakes if I had known they were so finicky. I really dislike riding a noisy bike. Am I the only one? Sorry for the rant, but just had to get it off my chest.
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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If they rub i adjust them. It takes no more than a few minutes

If they refuse to stop rubbing it’s usually a bent rotor. Most of the time I can fix that with an adjustable wrench

The one time I couldn’t I got a new rotor.

There are a bunch of YouTube’s. The business card trick will typically fix even the most annoying issues

If your brakes rub, they shouldn’t. I think that’s why people don’t complain. It’s so easy to fix
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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After having disk brakes for the last decade on my mtb, if you are getting rubbing all the time, either your calipers need to be pushed back in with a brake block or your rotor is warped.

Also having ridden rim brakes with my cross bike for the last 4-5 years, the occasional rub which csn be fixed still outweighs the performance of rim brakes.
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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it should be temperature related only... for me heat related and after a while it stops
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, part of the thing/joy with rim brakes is that you can dial them in just so. But then as pads wear, they need further adjusting to be just so. So they are kind of high maintenance (maybe less so for the tt crowd).

Disc brakes require love too. They are not set and forget. Well, they are on my xc, cx, and fat bikes. But maybe i am less obsessive about listening for rub.

My sram s900 brakes rubbed up front at first. I straightened the rotor slightly... but slight rub kept returning after a ride. it resolved when i finally did a proper bedding protocol... well, no rub after three rides. Fingers crossed.

The tolerances seem very close. Not much room for error it would seem. Hopefully future versions will solve it... but then disc brakes are hardly new for mountain bike...
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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AndyCaleb wrote:
So how come nobody mentioned that before?
Because most people are deaf.* Disc brakes inevitably rub with heat and use.

The good news is that truing them usually isn't much trouble, since the truing process involves just bending them back into shape. If it's something you're picky about, learn to fix it yourself.

*This becomes annoying during group rides in the fall and rainy season. Sometimes I'll have to point out to someone that the whining noise their bike was making was a leaf jammed against the tire, and they'll respond that they didn't even realize that their bike was making noise.
Sometimes the rain bikes themselves are a noisy mess, which is part of why I despise the whole concept of "rain bike." I have a couple bikes that I only use in the sun, but I don't have any wet-weather specific bikes that I don't enjoy on good days. If a bike isn't a joy to ride in great weather, it's not going to be a joy to ride in the wet either, so I should fix what's wrong with it!
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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They're fairly easy to adjust, only takes a minute or two. What I do find occasionally happens is grime or dirt will build up on pad and sound like rubbing. Usually goes away by "cleaning" with a few hard stops.
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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AndyCaleb wrote:

I feel like this is something that should get mentioned more, when people talk about pros and cons of disc brakes. I would not have bought disc brakes if I had known they were so finicky. I really dislike riding a noisy bike. Am I the only one? Sorry for the rant, but just had to get it off my chest.


Oh, it gets mentioned...along with pointing out the tendency for them to also squeal more upon application...but those voices usually get shouted down, typically with accusations of Luddite-ism. :-/

In the end, the tight pad to rotor clearances required on hydraulic discs are the result of using a relatively small braking surface at a relatively small diameter, and with materials that aren't super "grabby" (relatively speaking)...all of which means that the piston forces need to be quite high for a given braking torque. Since the travel is basically defined by the piston seal rolling (and is pretty much linear) this means (combined with the high force required) that the piston travel distance is quite small. It's a leverage thing...you can trade off travel for force, and vice versa. On many vehicles (such as cars, motorcycles, etc.) the pads actually rub almost all the time...but, those aren't powered by mere fractional hp "engines", so the additional drag isn't really noticed...it just is what it is.

Oh yeah...I've found that one of the nice things about using cable actuated discs is you can adjust the pad clearance up or down as necessary. Sure, that also means you need to periodically adjust them for wear as well, but that's a pretty minor annoyance. Folks tend to say that the cable-actuated models don't perform nearly as well as hydraulic, but that's really only true when comparing to ones that only move one pad and rely on disc flex to press against the other (such as Avid BB7s, etc.) Set up with solid, link-type cable housings, the power transfer on dual sided actuation models (e.g. TRP Spyres) really doesn't give up much, if anything, to hydraulic actuation IMHO.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Sep 17, 19 17:34
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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The pads are self-centering, but they sometimes need to be more centered. https://amzn.to/2NmVgWr Jam something like this in there to recenter the pads a bit.
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
Folks tend to say that the cable-actuated models don't perform nearly as well as hydraulic, but that's really only true when comparing to ones that only move one pad and rely on disc flex to press against the other (such as Avid BB7s, etc.) Set up with solid, link-type cable housings, the power transfer on dual sided actuation models (e.g. TRP Spyres) really doesn't give up much, if anything, to hydraulic actuation IMHO.
Housing type and routing can matter as well. The big benefit of hydraulic actuation is that it introduces almost zero sponginess, even with tight housing bends.
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [HTupolev] [ In reply to ]
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HTupolev wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Folks tend to say that the cable-actuated models don't perform nearly as well as hydraulic, but that's really only true when comparing to ones that only move one pad and rely on disc flex to press against the other (such as Avid BB7s, etc.) Set up with solid, link-type cable housings, the power transfer on dual sided actuation models (e.g. TRP Spyres) really doesn't give up much, if anything, to hydraulic actuation IMHO.

Housing type and routing can matter as well. The big benefit of hydraulic actuation is that it introduces almost zero sponginess, even with tight housing bends.

As long as it's bled correctly...and often ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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I find discs require a lot of attention to maintain a modicum of good behaviour.
For instance, my bike cleaning routine:
- Remove pads and rotors
- Clean bike
- Light sand then alcohol rub for pads and rotors
- carefully lock pistons in fully extended position and polish the barrels as they often get sticky so one side doesn't retract properly
- lube bike
- reinstall rotors and pads
- check rotor trueness

Enjoy some quiet riding with OK braking until the next time the roads are wet and grit gets in there or they start squealing.

Bleeding is less frequent, but definitely a chore
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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I said this frequently and often about two years ago but got shouted down by the disc brake mafia. Glad I kept rim brakes on my road and TT bikes.
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [HTupolev] [ In reply to ]
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HTupolev wrote:
AndyCaleb wrote:
So how come nobody mentioned that before?

Because most people are deaf.* Disc brakes inevitably rub with heat and use.

The good news is that truing them usually isn't much trouble, since the truing process involves just bending them back into shape. If it's something you're picky about, learn to fix it yourself.

*This becomes annoying during group rides in the fall and rainy season. Sometimes I'll have to point out to someone that the whining noise their bike was making was a leaf jammed against the tire, and they'll respond that they didn't even realize that their bike was making noise.
Sometimes the rain bikes themselves are a noisy mess, which is part of why I despise the whole concept of "rain bike." I have a couple bikes that I only use in the sun, but I don't have any wet-weather specific bikes that I don't enjoy on good days. If a bike isn't a joy to ride in great weather, it's not going to be a joy to ride in the wet either, so I should fix what's wrong with it!

I must be an outlier. I have a 2017 Roubaix with hydraulic disc brakes. It has about 12,000 miles on it, and they were hard fast miles in adverse conditions, and my front brake has only had basic maintenance from the LBS in the spring of 2018 and 2019. I've never had rub, abnormal noise (except for a few races in the rain), or had to do any type of corrective maintenance. I've used my back brake only a few times so it doesn't count.

A few weeks ago those disc brakes saved a small boy's life when he darted out into the street while I was hammering along at about 25 mph. The bike stopped on a dime. A car or bike with rim brakes would have never stopped.

When you need them they are worth every penny you've spent.

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [Animalmom2] [ In reply to ]
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Animalmom2 wrote:
If they rub i adjust them. It takes no more than a few minutes

If they refuse to stop rubbing it’s usually a bent rotor. Most of the time I can fix that with an adjustable wrench

The one time I couldn’t I got a new rotor.

There are a bunch of YouTube’s. The business card trick will typically fix even the most annoying issues

If your brakes rub, they shouldn’t. I think that’s why people don’t complain. It’s so easy to fix

Basically this,

Here is a good video from GCN

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ_oIAPuQR8

Maurice
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
HTupolev wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Folks tend to say that the cable-actuated models don't perform nearly as well as hydraulic, but that's really only true when comparing to ones that only move one pad and rely on disc flex to press against the other (such as Avid BB7s, etc.) Set up with solid, link-type cable housings, the power transfer on dual sided actuation models (e.g. TRP Spyres) really doesn't give up much, if anything, to hydraulic actuation IMHO.

Housing type and routing can matter as well. The big benefit of hydraulic actuation is that it introduces almost zero sponginess, even with tight housing bends.


As long as it's bled correctly...and often ;-)
Not sure I agree with this - my road bike is about 14 months old and I've never had to bleed the brakes.
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Benv wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
HTupolev wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Folks tend to say that the cable-actuated models don't perform nearly as well as hydraulic, but that's really only true when comparing to ones that only move one pad and rely on disc flex to press against the other (such as Avid BB7s, etc.) Set up with solid, link-type cable housings, the power transfer on dual sided actuation models (e.g. TRP Spyres) really doesn't give up much, if anything, to hydraulic actuation IMHO.

Housing type and routing can matter as well. The big benefit of hydraulic actuation is that it introduces almost zero sponginess, even with tight housing bends.


As long as it's bled correctly...and often ;-)
Not sure I agree with this - my road bike is about 14 months old and I've never had to bleed the brakes.

Well, like most of these things, it depends on usage. If you spend a lot of time heating them up on long descents, you'll be bleeding more often...if not, then not so much. I'm comparing the results of the former, not the latter.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
I find discs require a lot of attention to maintain a modicum of good behaviour.
For instance, my bike cleaning routine:
- Remove pads and rotors
- Clean bike
- Light sand then alcohol rub for pads and rotors
- carefully lock pistons in fully extended position and polish the barrels as they often get sticky so one side doesn't retract properly
- lube bike
- reinstall rotors and pads
- check rotor trueness

Enjoy some quiet riding with OK braking until the next time the roads are wet and grit gets in there or they start squealing.

Bleeding is less frequent, but definitely a chore
I agree with you - I love my disc brakes but they require a ton of maintenance. For some reason my rear brake is much more stable whereas my front brake needs much more TLC. It's one these things where, if you choose to ride with disc brakes, it's a must to learn how to true the rotors, realign calipers and clean the pistons.
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:

Well, like most of these things, it depends on usage. If you spend a lot of time heating them up on long descents, you'll be bleeding more often...if not, then not so much. I'm comparing the results of the former, not the latter.
I live by the San Gabriel mountains and ride there quite a bit and on my local climb I'll usually get stuck behind cars and will need to brake the whole time so that by the time I'm at the bottom there's a constant rub from the heat which then goes away in the next 15-20 seconds. Maybe it depends on how much is 'quite a bit', but so far so good. A long time ago I used to find bleeding such a pain in the ass on my mountain bike that I switched from hydraulic to cable actuated disc brakes, and that experience made me think long and hard before pulling the trigger on going with disc brakes on my road bike last year. No regrets however.
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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If your brakes are constantly rubbing, just loosen the caliper bolts, hold down the lever and re-tighten the bolts. That solves 80% of issues. If it's a tick... tick.... tick sound, the majority of the time, the pads just need to recenter. This happens automatically on hydraulic brakes and the ticking will go away quickly. If the ticking doesn't go away, the rotor might be out of true, something you can fix with an adjustable wrench or even just your fingers and a paper towel. Most rotors come with a bit of runout.

A few things I've noticed:
Shimano post mount brakes are easiest to adjust and most tolerant of slight amounts of rotor runout.
SRAM calipers are a bit more finicky to setup but still not a problem. The tolerance and pad movement both seem to be a bit tighter.
Shimano flat mount calipers are very finicky to setup and tend to rub the most. This is a dumb standard, IMO, expecially given that the pre-existing post mounts work better. Still, you can get them working fine with some patience.

Also, roadies are far more sensitive to rotor noise than mountain bikers. Don't worry about it so much.
Last edited by: hiro11: Sep 18, 19 7:11
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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How come people aren't complaining about disc brake rub? Because it's not a problem.

I'm always surprised to hear the complaints and claims that disc brakes are "high maintenance" on internet forums. If your disc brakes are high maintenance, if your disc brakes rub, the problem isn't with the brakes. It's with whoever is doing your maintenance. Careless, sloppy, lazy brake setup is almost always the problem. Here are the keys to brakes that work great, don't rub, and don't require maintenance until the pads wear out:


  • When you set the brakes up the first time, make sure the brake systems are very well bled. This MAY require taking the caliper loose from its mount in order to establish a straighter path for the bubbles to travel between caliper and lever -- but it's worth it. Be obsessive about it. If you bleed the brakes well when you set them up, they WILL become a set-them-and-forget-them near zero maintenance item. There is no reason to have to bleed brakes again for YEARS and tens of thousands of miles if you do it right.
  • When you set the brakes up the first time, CENTER THE CALIPERS!! Use the "business card trick." Shine a bright light in there to make sure there is daylight between brake pad and disc ON BOTH SIDES. If you do this, your disc brakes WILL become a set-them-and-forget-them near zero maintenance item.
  • Don't contaminate your discs or pads or allow your discs to be bent. If you spill or allow oil (even skin oil), lube, grease, sealant, soap to contaminate your disc or pads, they will squeal. If you throw your wheels into a car trunk and allow the disc to get bent, it will rub. That's not a disc or pad problem. That's a care problem. Be nice to your disc brakes and they will be nice to you.

Be obsessive about initial setup and be nice to your brakes and they will serve you well and be extremely low maintenance. I have ridden hydraulic disc brakes for years on a mountain bike, a couple gravel bikes, and a road bike. The only times I've had brake rub and had to true discs after the initial setup is when I allowed the discs to be bent. I have never ever had to re-bleed a hydraulic disc brake system (granted, that's only with two or three years of use). (I feel better. I will stop my rant now.)
Last edited by: FlashBazbo: Sep 18, 19 8:31
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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learn to do it yourself, i haven't found a shop willing to do it really well yet...

I find them a lot easier to deal w/ than rim brakes, if you're getting consistent rubbing then your rotor is bent or you need a bleed.
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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my experience is the same as yours, every month or so the disk brakes will require some kind of fiddling to keep them working quietly..


The cons of disc brakes include the requirements of expert setup, and significantly more maintenance investment, in time, skills, and parts..

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...r_-_Part_1_6977.html

"The extra investment of time and money for parts and service are clearly worthwhile when you look at the improved braking performance."
..
"Disc brakes, over their lifetime, will require a minimum of 3-4 times more service than standard rim brakes."
..
"disc pads wear out much more quickly, and disc brakes generally require more fiddling and adjustment."


I have one MTB with disc brakes in the family stable of bikes, don't plan on getting any more bikes with discs. The marginal gains of slightly improved stopping distance are not enough to sell me on the extra time I have to spend on maintenance..



"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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nobody is complaining because disc brakes are not just more annoying to fix, they're also heavier, less aero, and more expensive! so what's not to love? now shut up and get on the rocket to the future!!!

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Disc brake rub -- How come more people are not complaining about this? [AndyCaleb] [ In reply to ]
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AndyCaleb wrote:

I feel like this is something that should get mentioned more, when people talk about pros and cons of disc brakes. I would not have bought disc brakes if I had known they were so finicky. I really dislike riding a noisy bike. Am I the only one? Sorry for the rant, but just had to get it off my chest.


Everyone that has them seems to love them too much so they forget to mention this. A bunch of guys I ride with that have disc brakes are always complaining about them and do frequent adjustments. One guy has a 2019 S-works Tarmac disc but lately he keeps bringing out his 10 year old bike because he got tired of playing with the brakes. Not worth the hassle unless you do a lot of steep descents and riding in the rain.
Last edited by: mcmetal: Sep 18, 19 13:52
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