Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
 
Ron_Burgundy wrote:
SBRcoffee wrote:
Fuck it, I'll probably get blasted for this, but....I don't feel one bit sorry. You know why?

Because of shit like this from you:

I've owned three Dimonds. All have been great bikes. Like ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIKE I've ever owned, there are things I would change about them. What's great about working with Dimond is how fast many of those things HAVE been changed in the two years I've been working with them. And none of the things I desire to change are (or were) things that I think should keep someone from buying a Dimond.

Lots of folks, myself included, asked your opinions of the Dimond in very recent months, including via PM's, and you lied your ass off. You never spoke of any major issues. Now you want people to fund a defence for you. Piss off.


Good point. Additionally, it seems atypical for Diamondback to not cover is legal fee's, i am guessing there is more to this than meets the eye. In the end you are under contractual obligations unless formally released, we all know how useful verbal agreements are in the court of law.

Agree with Ron_Burgundy and SBRcoffee.

Free Legal Advice - Always follow up potentially important business phone calls and conversations with a quick synopsis letter or email. If it can not be read it was never said.

David K
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
 
SBRcoffee wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
*IF* Dimond broke the contract first by not providing a suitable bike, then the contract is null and void and Jordan is no longer bound to keep quiet and say nice things about Dimond.

Hard to prove the bike was not suitable when he was recommending it to everyone who asked, never had an actual frame failure by his own admission, won an Ironman aboard it, etc etc

Presumably he has all the emails he sent to Dimond to address the bike issues while he was still trying to make it work and abide by his contract which required him to say nice things? He only decided that they had not lived up to their end when the third bike, in his estimation, was still not race-worthy.

Right now all I have to go on his his side of the story but that's what it seems to boil down to.

Whether Jordan is being overly picky about the bike or not, the lawsuits against him and their former rep seem to be both beyond the pale and also counter to their own interests. I cannot understand why they would want to focus such a public spotlight on this by filing lawsuits unless there are internal things we do not yet know about. Hard to imagine what they could be.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
not off hand. But just about every pro I have talked to (US Pro) goes under a corp name for many benefits. Mostly tax reasons because it's easier to write everything off. I'm a coach and go under a corp name for taxes and to protect myself. Keeps my personal finances protected in case something ever happened. I can answer some questions, and those i can't I can go in the bedroom and ask my wife. She's the lawyer. :-)

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
 
"Jordan is now saying that they are inherently badly made and manufactured, and, dangerous."

as a point of order, that is not what i read in his original post. i looked for an evidence-free blanket statement about a product. i didn't find that. i read his own personal experience (colored by a very bad past crash that has made him hypersensitive to many aspects of cycling) with the frames he has gotten.

i have no wisdom on whether his post was a good strategy.

on a personal note, in 30 years of being a litigant, of arbitrating litigations and fee amounts, in spectating litigations of all sorts, only once in that time did i see either side benefit from a litigation. every other time both sides are worse for the exercise.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
But he posted here under his personal name so (even if they couldn't pierce that corporate veil), guess what that means???
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
 
lbmxj560 wrote:

Which is patently ridiculous. People on ST are not saying they aren't going to buy the bikes because Dimond is "bullying" Jordan, they are saying they are not buying the bikes because Jordan is now saying that they are inherently badly made and manufactured, and, dangerous. If the reason was the former, there may be some veracity to that argument. As it's the latter, there isn't. The noise wouldn't have happened had Jordan not chosen to ask, in public forum, for support in this case and proceeded to state why Dimond bikes (the bikes themselves) are so bad. Had he dealt with it like almost every other person/company does when being sued (i.e. taking legal advice, keeping quiet and dealing with it all in the background) then no one would have been any the wiser and no one would have been publicly stating that they don't want to by Dimond bikes anymore because they are scared they are dangerous.

At best this is just evidence Dimond can show as damages for breach of contract (in an endorsement deal the basics are: 1 - use our stuff; 2 - say nice things about our stuff). By saying bad things about Dimond, whether or not Jordan believes them to be true, he will be in breach of those terms. At worst this is a form of libel/slander and, again, all of these posts just evidence the damage Jordan's statement has made to Dimond's brand and reputation.

I have no sympathy whatsoever. Jordan, by this post, is severely (irreparably as many here are claiming - oh dear, Jordan) damaging Dimond's brand and, if I were Dimond, I would be throwing the kitchen sink at this and Jordan.

I don't disagree with you at all but that is why I was scratching my head last night. Jordan is intelligent and TJ is brilliant as well (pun intended just for DHR). I know there are a lot of lawyers in the forumn scratching their heads as well. Maybe this is just THE emotions of two very powerful personalities who are both winners and just refuse to lose and quit. A part of me thinks this was a very tactical plan by both parties. I can see the Stratego board as we speak.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
trail wrote:
James Haycraft wrote:
but the Dimond Mafia will jump all over that one in a heartbeat.

The Dimond Mafia is probably collectively curled up a fetal position on the shower floor with a bottle of Jim Beam, and unfit for legal action at the moment. Someone should go check on them.

That was me on Nov. 8.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
That actually doesn't matter. Corporate protections are quite broad. And I don't know about Rapp's status. I'm talking from complete "if he has a corp" status. if he doesn't, that could be messy.

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Bu the inference is clear - Jordan didn't want to ride the bikes as he didn't feel they were very well made and very competitive. Him showing videos of the bike flexing and not being joined properly is inferring, in some way or another, that they are unsafe. That is certainly an argument I would be running on behalf of Dimond. Whether or not that's successful is for a judge to decide, but Jordan is not helping his own defence here.

And I agree entirely. When talking with my clients I always describe litigation as the "nuclear button". Once a claim is issued there is no going back, the fallout is terrible and no one comes out of it looking or feeling good. No one wins but the lawyers. That's coming from a lawyer.

However, this doesn't make it right, or sensible, for Jordan to be so public about the dispute or to ask for others to fund his defence.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Come on Dan, there is always a winner..... it's called BMW, Mercedes and Land Rover.... that's what the lawyers buy when they take on these cases and laugh all the way to the bank.

USAT LIIE Certified Coach
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
Andrew Coggan wrote:
Dan has assumed the role of a journalist, so I think he owes the world as much. If he doesn't think he can be objective, that's cool too, just turn the job over to someone who can be. So far, though, he hasn't even responded with "we're working on a story - sit tight."

we're working on a story - sit tight.

you're absolutely right. there is no way this is not news.

i have a lot of personal affection for jordan. i feel a lot of solidarity with TJ, because i did what he is doing. i don't sense any gravitational pull from one side over the other. just, i don't really want to write until i have something fundamentally true and helpful and illustrative to write. i haven't heard from TJ, or ruster sports, or its attorney. there absolutely are facts that weigh in favor of their side. i don't need to talk to them to report those facts because i think i know what they are. still would like to hear what they have to say before i write anything.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
I am a little confused as to why people expect Dimond to reply to any of this? If I was them I would sit here, read and screenshot everything and work on an unbeatable prosectution based on the fact that Jordan has clearly outlined everything he has in his defence. It's like giving them your entire strategy.

Once it's settled statements can be made!
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
Ok let me spell it out...He didn't post here under a corporate name. Personal posting=personal liability. Dimind's attorneys are licking their chops right now.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
 
RowToTri wrote:

Whether Jordan is being overly picky about the bike or not, the lawsuits against him and their former rep seem to be both beyond the pale and also counter to their own interests. I cannot understand why they would want to focus such a public spotlight on this by filing lawsuits unless there are internal things we do not yet know about. Hard to imagine what they could be.

While I agree that the lawsuit seems to be counter to their interests, I wouldn't characterize the suit as "beyond the pale." Let's not forget, Jordan began endorsing a competitor's product while he was still under contract, whether or not he wanted to be, with Dimond.

One side cannot typically arbitrarily declare the contract null and void, especially over a subjective issue such as a providing a "suitable" bike. If Jordan and Dimond disagreed over that point, the issue should have been resolved through arbitration or litigation before Jordan began endorsing Diamondback bicycles.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Pb] [ In reply to ]
 
Ding, ding, ding!!!

As well as their evidence for new claims that will be added based upon the post.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Apr 27, 17 12:06
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
 
I agree. I think both parties are thinking they are being smart AF. In fact, one, or both of them, are being monumentally stupid.

The only thing I can liken this to is a pistol due where both parties end up being shot in the face at the same time. Each one has "won", but the losses both have suffered in "winning" are catastrophic. Dimond could go out of business, Jordan could be bankrupted. Well done both.

Without sight of Jordan's endorsement contract I cannot pass comment on whether or not Dimond may be in breach of its obligations to him, but I suspect they pretty much amount to: (1) we'll give you some stuff for free; (2) we'll pay you some money to use our stuff and say nice things about it. As long as they've done that then it's for Jordan to show that what they've supplied him amounted to a breach. However (and bearing in mind this is UK law, but I suspect US law is largely the same), Jordan should have terminated the contract for breach. He can't just pretend the contract doesn't exist and hope it goes away. In English law this is called repudiatory breach. If he doesn't terminate the contract as a result of Dimond's breach (if there was one), he will be in breach by not doing what he is contractually obliged to do.

I wouldn't like to call this one but do wonder why his legal advisor has suggested this is a good way of going about things...
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
 
RowToTri wrote:
*IF* Dimond broke the contract first by not providing a suitable bike, then the contract is null and void and Jordan is no longer bound to keep quiet and say nice things about Dimond.


I'm not a lawyer, but I think it'd best to not unilaterally consider a contract null and void.. Better to get a signed piece of paper terminating it. I'd think it should have gone along the lines of, "I won't say anything bad about Dimond, ever. You let me go ride another bike. Please sign here."
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [TheTort] [ In reply to ]
 
TheTort wrote:
Come on Dan, there is always a winner..... it's called BMW, Mercedes and Land Rover.... that's what the lawyers buy when they take on these cases and laugh all the way to the bank.

there was a big legal fight at USAT, back in 2004. a bunch of board members were suing another bunch of board members. i was not a party to it. my job, when it was all over, was to cram down the legal bills. i thoroughly reveled in it as you might guess (telling attorneys how much of their bills they were really going to get). but that's another story.

i did spectate the entire case, start to finish. i spoke to all the litigants, many times. what i found notable - shocking, really - is that both sides' lawyers reported to their clients that their case was a slam dunk win. how could both sides' attorneys be certain of a slam dunk win?

in the end it was kind of a rollback to the status quo, some hundreds of thousands of dollars and several burnt hides later. who paid? you paid. i paid. everybody who bought an annual or one day license paid.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
I have to admit, that's a new one on me. I have been practicing law for about 10 years and I have NEVER EVER heard any lawyer say a case is a slam dunk. Not in the US or the UK. It's a surefire way of your client coming back and suing you for negligence if you lose the case, or even, don't get the full result they were expecting.

And, yes, I have a vested interest in this statement, but let's not blame the game, blame the player. If people didn't sign stupid contracts, or do stupid things in breach of stupid contracts, then litigators would be out of business. It's not their fault their clients do stupid things and then ask them to tidy things up afterwards. Guess what, that costs money.
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
we're working on a story - sit tight.

1. I would expect no less.

2. Why didn't you just say so before?
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
trail wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
*IF* Dimond broke the contract first by not providing a suitable bike, then the contract is null and void and Jordan is no longer bound to keep quiet and say nice things about Dimond.


I'm not a lawyer, but I think it'd best to not unilaterally consider a contract null and void.. Better to get a signed piece of paper terminating it. I'd think it should have gone along the lines of, "I won't say anything bad about Dimond, ever. You let me go ride another bike. Please sign here."

That seems like it would have been a better way to handle it. And as Gary p mentioned, if Dimond did not want to let Jordan out of the contract when he informed them that they were in breach, it would be normal for the contract to specify arbitration. We do not know if that was in the contract. In my very very limited experience with sports contracts, the things we usually expect in the business world sometimes do not show up in them. Mostly because people are trying to save money and write the contracts without a lawyer.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
 
DFW_Tri wrote:
Ok let me spell it out...He didn't post here under a corporate name. Personal posting=personal liability. Dimind's attorneys are licking their chops right now.

I would be personally liable regardless. In hindsight, I should have created an LLC early in my career and done business under it. I've always operated as a sole proprietor.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
 
lbmxj560 wrote:
Bu the inference is clear - Jordan didn't want to ride the bikes as he didn't feel they were very well made and very competitive. Him showing videos of the bike flexing and not being joined properly is inferring, in some way or another, that they are unsafe. That is certainly an argument I would be running on behalf of Dimond. Whether or not that's successful is for a judge to decide, but Jordan is not helping his own defence here.

And I agree entirely. When talking with my clients I always describe litigation as the "nuclear button". Once a claim is issued there is no going back, the fallout is terrible and no one comes out of it looking or feeling good. No one wins but the lawyers. That's coming from a lawyer.

However, this doesn't make it right, or sensible, for Jordan to be so public about the dispute or to ask for others to fund his defence.



Agree, there will be no winners here. Jordan is taking a hit on his rep and Dimond is certainly taking a hit on theirs as well. Personally, I can't imagine Dimond, with their struggle to build a brand and expand a business made the decision to go public (file a lawsuit) like this.....they have much more to lose it seems. The money they were paying to endorse their product appears minimal.....but I guess that's the triathlon business. Based on Jordan's story, I'm not sure why he needs a huge legal slush fund. It appears to me if his story is correct, why not just stand in front of a judge and tell the story.....case closed? Does anyone think Dimond has a significant budget to spend and hire a "high priced" attorney? Once Dimond filed the lawsuit, it became public. Bad decision......everyone loses here.

ps....not needing an answer here but per Rapp....if Diamondback can get the same kind of letter and fire back a "stern" reply that makes it apparently go away, why can't Rapp's attorney do the same? And yes, would add to the growing list, Jordan probably should stop contributing to this post for now.


Last edited by: gphin305: Apr 27, 17 8:40
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
 
Andrew Coggan wrote:
Why didn't you just say so before?

i sat down 3 times to do so. wrote it out. got ready to post it. and didn't. in times like this i just find myself wanting to communicate less rather than more. i am by nature a bucketmouth but at least i know that about myself. i felt there was nothing i couldn't write a few hours later, after taking the dogs on a walk and ruminating about the wisdom i should and would have used had i just thought about things a bit more first. so i thought about things a bit more first.

i know that inconvenienced you and others and i regret that.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: Dimond Is Suing Me. I'm Asking For Your Help. [] [ In reply to ]
 
I am here to complain about my Falco

Internet User
 

Prev Next