Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Leddy wrote:
Please define " the school does not get paid ".

When you say that I envision each teachers paycheck being a little less when students are absent. What I think you are referring to is the school receives less funding the following year ?




The school gets x dollars per day per student. the school budgets for how many students they think they will have, which is then how much money they get for that year, and that is what they
hire teachers, etc. to cover. So if they have less kids, either in total or the number in the seats they expected, they get less this year which depending on how they did the budget, well, ...

The only point I am trying to make is when parents take their kids out of school, the school loses money, which means less stuff for the kids. Just pretty simple.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).

here they only get the money after they give what kids they really had. Not sure if per month, quarter, but it is a real lose of real money.

And if all the parents had the attitude that my kid being taken out a few days makes no difference, well, ...

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
and another article: http://www.outsideonline.com/2040991/cheaters-beware-wrath-internet

This article isn't just about Rossi, but cheaters being outed on Letsrun.com, great article!

Tony
http://www.triathleteguru.com
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).

no, that's is not the way it works here in the states ($ allocation based on actual student attendance) and dave has no idea what he's talking about (shocking...i know)
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [tonythetriguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tonythetriguy wrote:
and another article: http://www.outsideonline.com/2040991/cheaters-beware-wrath-internet

This article isn't just about Rossi, but cheaters being outed on Letsrun.com, great article!

I agree, well written article

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MeltingPot wrote:
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).

no, that's is not the way it works here in the states ($ allocation based on actual student attendance) and dave has no idea what he's talking about (shocking...i know)

Apparently it is true in some states. Dave only suffers from the typical problem of assuming that his situation is the same as everyone else in the world.

Definitely not the case in Canada. Sounds like a crazy way to fund a school system. They penalize the school and all other students for the absence of some.
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MeltingPot wrote:
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).


no, that's is not the way it works here in the states ($ allocation based on actual student attendance) and dave has no idea what he's talking about (shocking...i know)

Dave is in California and yes that is how it works out here. Just because he is Dave doesn't mean he's always wrong.

Live long and surf!
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [Giant Steps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Giant Steps wrote:
MeltingPot wrote:
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).


no, that's is not the way it works here in the states ($ allocation based on actual student attendance) and dave has no idea what he's talking about (shocking...i know)


Dave is in California and yes that is how it works out here. Just because he is Dave doesn't mean he's always wrong.


Thanks, I verified again with my wife, who has dealt with this issue with parents for years. I have no idea what happens in other areas, but I assume it has to be close,
your kid is not in school, they do not get paid.

My wife works with the sw tools the state supports that tracks all this stuff. She told me they may be changing to track a kid in a seat minute by minute since some parents play the game
they bring them in for 5 minutes then take them out.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jctriguy wrote:
MeltingPot wrote:
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).


no, that's is not the way it works here in the states ($ allocation based on actual student attendance) and dave has no idea what he's talking about (shocking...i know)


Apparently it is true in some states. Dave only suffers from the typical problem of assuming that his situation is the same as everyone else in the world.

Definitely not the case in Canada. Sounds like a crazy way to fund a school system. They penalize the school and all other students for the absence of some.

And where did I ever say what happens where I live happens everywhere else in the world? Amazing.

So how else are you getting money for schools? Should a school with 100 kids get the same amount as one with 1000?
Should a school with kids being gone 50% of the time get the same money if another school the kids are gone 1% of the time?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [Giant Steps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Giant Steps wrote:
MeltingPot wrote:
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).


no, that's is not the way it works here in the states ($ allocation based on actual student attendance) and dave has no idea what he's talking about (shocking...i know)


Dave is in California and yes that is how it works out here. Just because he is Dave doesn't mean he's always wrong.

my bad as i've never heard of such a thing in my life. coupled with the fact that dave said so, made me believe the opposite must be true.
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
Jctriguy wrote:
MeltingPot wrote:
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).


no, that's is not the way it works here in the states ($ allocation based on actual student attendance) and dave has no idea what he's talking about (shocking...i know)


Apparently it is true in some states. Dave only suffers from the typical problem of assuming that his situation is the same as everyone else in the world.

Definitely not the case in Canada. Sounds like a crazy way to fund a school system. They penalize the school and all other students for the absence of some.

And where did I ever say what happens where I live happens everywhere else in the world? Amazing.

So how else are you getting money for schools? Should a school with 100 kids get the same amount as one with 1000?
Should a school with kids being gone 50% of the time get the same money if another school the kids are gone 1% of the time?

Just bringing this into the discussion shows that you think your reality is the basis for everything. Rossi doesn't live in California, do you know if his state has the same school funding model? Certainly isn't the case anywhere in Canada. You just sidetrack the discussing by saying parents don't know the financial implications of taking kids out of school, when in many cases there are no financial implications.

Now that you know your reality isn't the only reality, why don't you act like an educated adult and check on what other systems might exist in the world? Why would you think that a system that's been in place in California for a relatively short period of time is the only sensible system? To me it sounds ludicrous. Does it cost less to have a teacher in a classroom when a student is absent? Does the teacher get paid less if a student misses a day or a week? Having a fixed budget based on the total enrolment at the school makes far more sense to me than a budget based on assumptions and no firm numbers until the final day of class.
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jctriguy wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Jctriguy wrote:
MeltingPot wrote:
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).


no, that's is not the way it works here in the states ($ allocation based on actual student attendance) and dave has no idea what he's talking about (shocking...i know)


Apparently it is true in some states. Dave only suffers from the typical problem of assuming that his situation is the same as everyone else in the world.

Definitely not the case in Canada. Sounds like a crazy way to fund a school system. They penalize the school and all other students for the absence of some.


And where did I ever say what happens where I live happens everywhere else in the world? Amazing.

So how else are you getting money for schools? Should a school with 100 kids get the same amount as one with 1000?
Should a school with kids being gone 50% of the time get the same money if another school the kids are gone 1% of the time?


Just bringing this into the discussion shows that you think your reality is the basis for everything. Rossi doesn't live in California, do you know if his state has the same school funding model? Certainly isn't the case anywhere in Canada. You just sidetrack the discussing by saying parents don't know the financial implications of taking kids out of school, when in many cases there are no financial implications.

Now that you know your reality isn't the only reality, why don't you act like an educated adult and check on what other systems might exist in the world? Why would you think that a system that's been in place in California for a relatively short period of time is the only sensible system? To me it sounds ludicrous. Does it cost less to have a teacher in a classroom when a student is absent? Does the teacher get paid less if a student misses a day or a week? Having a fixed budget based on the total enrolment at the school makes far more sense to me than a budget based on assumptions and no firm numbers until the final day of class.

It appears that currently California, Kentucky, Idaho, Illinois, Mississippi, Missouri and Texas, distribute state funds based on average daily attendance. Oregon is currently considering a move in that direction as well. As a retired teacher, the concept is a terrible on multiple levels.

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sciguy wrote:
Jctriguy wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Jctriguy wrote:
MeltingPot wrote:
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).


no, that's is not the way it works here in the states ($ allocation based on actual student attendance) and dave has no idea what he's talking about (shocking...i know)


Apparently it is true in some states. Dave only suffers from the typical problem of assuming that his situation is the same as everyone else in the world.

Definitely not the case in Canada. Sounds like a crazy way to fund a school system. They penalize the school and all other students for the absence of some.


And where did I ever say what happens where I live happens everywhere else in the world? Amazing.

So how else are you getting money for schools? Should a school with 100 kids get the same amount as one with 1000?
Should a school with kids being gone 50% of the time get the same money if another school the kids are gone 1% of the time?


Just bringing this into the discussion shows that you think your reality is the basis for everything. Rossi doesn't live in California, do you know if his state has the same school funding model? Certainly isn't the case anywhere in Canada. You just sidetrack the discussing by saying parents don't know the financial implications of taking kids out of school, when in many cases there are no financial implications.

Now that you know your reality isn't the only reality, why don't you act like an educated adult and check on what other systems might exist in the world? Why would you think that a system that's been in place in California for a relatively short period of time is the only sensible system? To me it sounds ludicrous. Does it cost less to have a teacher in a classroom when a student is absent? Does the teacher get paid less if a student misses a day or a week? Having a fixed budget based on the total enrolment at the school makes far more sense to me than a budget based on assumptions and no firm numbers until the final day of class.


It appears that currently California, Kentucky, Idaho, Illinois, Mississippi, Missouri and Texas, distribute state funds based on average daily attendance. Oregon is currently considering a move in that direction as well. As a retired teacher, the concept is a terrible on multiple levels.

Hugh

Why? If the kid is not in the seat, how can they learn?

But I had no idea what I was talking about relating to funding. :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yup, California successfully hit the lowest level of state funding for education, but also seems to be at a fairly low level for student achievement. It would be a bit much to suggest cause and effect, but I'm sure many people have studied this relationship before. Also interesting that California spends 47k per inmate and only 9k per student. Maybe another wild assumption that improved education might relate to lower poverty and prison population. But, these are all thoughts from a left wing Canadian who thinks education is the foundation of an advanced society :)

Back on topic, I am also fully supportive of parents taking kids out of school for cultural, sporting or other important trips. You can learn when not in a class, life experience and seeing the world beyond the classroom is also important. So, on that part of the Rossi story I have no issue.
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
California changed the funding model to cut the budget, not to improve education. California and Idaho have two of the lowest spends per student. Do you think that is improving the education system by forcing larger classes and fewer resources?

Do you think it's good to budget for class sizes of 40 students and hope only 30 show up?
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:

Why? If the kid is not in the seat, how can they learn?

But I had no idea what I was talking about relating to funding. :)

You are now obfuscating the point....the issue was not about learning, it was about excused vs. unexcused absence.

And I couldn't care less how school systems are funded as it pertains to attendance. If a parent notifies a school ahead of time that they will be taking their child out of school, the idea that a school can classify it as "unexcused" is ridiculous. I am my child's parent and legal guardian.

And as my example noted, it doesn't even pertain just to attendance in school, so in my example, there is no funding at risk.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [Power13] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Can we please get back to Mike Rossi cheating? We need to know if he has a Christmas or New Years 5K planned!
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jctriguy wrote:
Back on topic, I am also fully supportive of parents taking kids out of school for cultural, sporting or other important trips. You can learn when not in a class, life experience and seeing the world beyond the classroom is also important. So, on that part of the Rossi story I have no issue.

I am, in principle, with you. But public education does not work unless participation is compulsory. think about it.
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:

And the school does not get paid those days. Parents just have no idea how their actions impact the schools, and their kids education. My parents NEVER pulled me out of school, let alone to go somewhere for them. Now I cannot say my kids have not, but at least
they have told the teacher, gotten the home school homework to do while gone, and the school got paid!

Thats a state thing. In Michigan they look at attendance on 2 days of the year. and use that to calculate the schools enrollment days. There is a big push in schools with high absenteeism to get the kids into school that day. Parties, gifts etc..

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
timbasile wrote:
Yes, but is it really on a day by day basis? I'd imagine that its based on full time enrolled students - meaning while it may matter if your kid is around half the time, one or two more absent days aren't going to change any funding mechanisms.

At least, that's how its done here (Ontario).

As I just posted in Michigan they use the Headcount on 2 days. Oh if your sick one of those days, but attend with a 5 day window they count you also.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Of course Funding of Calif. schools is much more complex then what is being implied here. happy reading (an excerpt follows the link)
http://www.ppic.org/.../report/R_310MWR.pdf

Summary California’s 978 school districts receive the majority of their funding through a formula known as “revenue limits.” Revenue limit funds can be used by school districts for general purposes, unlike funds received through categorical programs, which include restrictions on their use. Revenue limit funding is based on a complex series of formulas reflecting a long and complex history. And although it is commonly believed that revenue limit funds are equitably distributed because of a series of lawsuits in the 1970s and subsequent efforts to equalize funding per student, differences in funding per pupil can be significant. Revenue limits were created in response to a lawsuit over inequities in funding per pupil based on the relative wealth of each school district. Under revenue limits each district has a base revenue limit, a dollar amount per pupil. A district’s revenue limit entitlement is its base revenue limit multiplied by the number of students attending its schools. The number of students is measured by the district’s average daily attendance (ADA). The revenue limit entitlement is funded by local property taxes and state aid. A percentage of the property tax revenue generated by real property located within a district is assigned to the district; state aid makes up the difference between a district’s entitlement and its property tax revenue. If a district’s property tax revenue exceeds its entitlement, it retains these “excess taxes.” The sum of the entitlement and any excess taxes are a district’s revenue limit funds

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [Power13] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Power13 wrote:
You are now obfuscating the point....the issue was not about learning, it was about excused vs. unexcused absence.

And I couldn't care less how school systems are funded as it pertains to attendance. If a parent notifies a school ahead of time that they will be taking their child out of school, the idea that a school can classify it as "unexcused" is ridiculous. I am my child's parent and legal guardian.

And as my example noted, it doesn't even pertain just to attendance in school, so in my example, there is no funding at risk.

You have me confused, its there decision to define what is excused or not, you can for your use, but they still get to for their's and most are state mandated. Funny thing in our school district, it doesn't matter if we call them in or not its unexcused, unless we have a Dr's note or its for a funeral. (Still wonder what they do to confirm the funeral) School activities are ok also (college visits, school sports etc... But not club sport events)

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Can we get back to how much of a d-bag Rossi is?
Quote Reply
Re: Did Mike Rossi (viral marathon dad) cheat his way into Boston? [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DavHamm wrote:
Power13 wrote:
You are now obfuscating the point....the issue was not about learning, it was about excused vs. unexcused absence.

And I couldn't care less how school systems are funded as it pertains to attendance. If a parent notifies a school ahead of time that they will be taking their child out of school, the idea that a school can classify it as "unexcused" is ridiculous. I am my child's parent and legal guardian.

And as my example noted, it doesn't even pertain just to attendance in school, so in my example, there is no funding at risk.

You have me confused, its there decision to define what is excused or not, you can for your use, but they still get to for their's and most are state mandated. Funny thing in our school district, it doesn't matter if we call them in or not its unexcused, unless we have a Dr's note or its for a funeral. (Still wonder what they do to confirm the funeral) School activities are ok also (college visits, school sports etc... But not club sport events)

Because it can have implications on other aspects of a student's life / activities. In most schools, unexcused absences can impact participation in sports and other activities. See my previous example.....

Also, there can often be punishments associated with too many "unexcused" absences.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
Quote Reply

Prev Next