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Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly
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https://www.cnn.com/...ist-death/index.html

Sad news.
Last edited by: bluemonkeytri: Mar 11, 19 5:26
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Caitlin? RIP Kelly [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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Just saw this in UK on Guardian sport. Tragic tale.

She seemed to have s pretty full and successful life.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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Very sad.

Just so hard to know what's going on inside a person :(

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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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Such incredible potential.

Heart-breaking news.

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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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Very sad. I was just reading about it on the BBC. Life can be very hard, even when you seem to have it all.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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The Washington Post has a very nice piece in today.

Evidently, she suffered from depression and suffered a concussion in a crash last year.


" . . . Everything was open to her, but somehow her thinking was changed and she couldn’t see beyond, I guess, her depression. After her concussion, she started embracing nihilism. Life was meaningless. There was no purpose. This was a person with depression. For her, she could no longer concentrate on her studies or train as hard. She couldn’t fulfill what she felt were her obligations to herself, she couldn’t live up to her own standards. She couldn’t realize that what she needed to do was get away and rest, heal. We were all searching for the magic words, that life was worth living.”


So very sad.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]
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HandHeartCrown wrote:
The Washington Post has a very nice piece in today.

Evidently, she suffered from depression and suffered a concussion in a crash last year.

That was tough to read, especially since her brother & sister felt that the three of them were like a little gang when they were growing up

Again, the depression/concussion link and she had already tried to take her life months before

Blessed are the Nobodies, for Theirs is the Kingdom of Fascinating Stories
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]
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HandHeartCrown wrote:
The Washington Post has a very nice piece in today.

Evidently, she suffered from depression and suffered a concussion in a crash last year.



Quote:
" . . . Everything was open to her, but somehow her thinking was changed and she couldn’t see beyond, I guess, her depression. After her concussion, she started embracing nihilism. Life was meaningless. There was no purpose. This was a person with depression. For her, she could no longer concentrate on her studies or train as hard. She couldn’t fulfill what she felt were her obligations to herself, she couldn’t live up to her own standards. She couldn’t realize that what she needed to do was get away and rest, heal. We were all searching for the magic words, that life was worth living.”


So very sad.

OK, I'm going to mount my hobby horse here.

They have this the wrong way around. The concussion wasn't just in addition to the depression, the concussion probably caused or at least worsened the depression. The concussion wasn't just one of the things that made her life unbearable, it was the thing that *made* the other things unbearable. The concussion turned a susceptible developing brain into a depressed, foggy soup full of doubt and anxiety.

And a cycling federation staffed with exercise physiologists and sports psychologists and coaches and data analysts and who the fuck knows what else didn't recognize that and let her mind careen her to her death.

Yes, I'm angry. And sad. I was there, in 2012/13, thinking about which pills I had in the house and wondering if that would be enough. But I had knowledgeable support, and a loving family, and I was talked off the ledge. And I would have hoped that Kelly had the same support.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Sport is pretty lonely sometimes... even more so in a "high performance" environment. Tends to be a culture where "weakness" is something to hide away from the world.

For a sport where concussions are certainly very possible - more or less depending on the discipline, I hope this starts to get more attention. Repeated blunt force trauma to the skull is certainly not an inherent part of cycling (unlike say football), but it's also not unheard of.


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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Sport is pretty lonely sometimes... even more so in a "high performance" environment. Tends to be a culture where "weakness" is something to hide away from the world.

For a sport where concussions are certainly very possible - more or less depending on the discipline, I hope this starts to get more attention. Repeated blunt force trauma to the skull is certainly not an inherent part of cycling (unlike say football), but it's also not unheard of.

I get that. I realized that as well when I was thinking about this. My anger is twofold - first off, and most important, that the journos writing about this fail to point out the profound impact on mental health a (even single) concussion can have. And second that she rode for a pro team, and for USAC, and that both of these basically let her life spiral out of control. But I realize that there's only so much they can do.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
Sport is pretty lonely sometimes... even more so in a "high performance" environment. Tends to be a culture where "weakness" is something to hide away from the world.

For a sport where concussions are certainly very possible - more or less depending on the discipline, I hope this starts to get more attention. Repeated blunt force trauma to the skull is certainly not an inherent part of cycling (unlike say football), but it's also not unheard of.


I get that. I realized that as well when I was thinking about this. My anger is twofold - first off, and most important, that the journos writing about this fail to point out the profound impact on mental health a (even single) concussion can have. And second that she rode for a pro team, and for USAC, and that both of these basically let her life spiral out of control. But I realize that there's only so much they can do.

Let's not forget the while she was training and racing, it says in the link below she was also pursuing a degree in computational and mathematical engineering


https://www.sfgate.com/...dies-at-13677705.php

So she's training hard, studying hard - which were overwhelming to begin with - then she sustains a head injury, whereupon she now has trouble concentrating, is susceptible to light, and so on, to the point that her studying is being affected as well

After her first attempt, I would think someone would have recommended to her that she back off in some way, but who's to say if it would've helped by then?

Blessed are the Nobodies, for Theirs is the Kingdom of Fascinating Stories
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
Richard Blaine wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
Sport is pretty lonely sometimes... even more so in a "high performance" environment. Tends to be a culture where "weakness" is something to hide away from the world.

For a sport where concussions are certainly very possible - more or less depending on the discipline, I hope this starts to get more attention. Repeated blunt force trauma to the skull is certainly not an inherent part of cycling (unlike say football), but it's also not unheard of.


I get that. I realized that as well when I was thinking about this. My anger is twofold - first off, and most important, that the journos writing about this fail to point out the profound impact on mental health a (even single) concussion can have. And second that she rode for a pro team, and for USAC, and that both of these basically let her life spiral out of control. But I realize that there's only so much they can do.


Let's not forget the while she was training and racing, it says in the link below she was also pursuing a degree in computational and mathematical engineering


https://www.sfgate.com/...dies-at-13677705.php

So she's training hard, studying hard - which were overwhelming to begin with - then she sustains a head injury, whereupon she now has trouble concentrating, is susceptible to light, and so on, to the point that her studying is being affected as well

After her first attempt, I would think someone would have recommended to her that she back off in some way, but who's to say if it would've helped by then?

Pfft. Mathematical Engineering. Any idiot can do that, they even gave me the diploma (pink *and* backdoor brag. I'm on a roll).

I totally agree with you. It's probably a perfect storm of her own drive, the workload, her family environment where drive was valued, and finally the lack of mental health support at Stanford and from her team and USAC.

I'm still upset though. Maybe because it's all so familiar - the mathematics, the cycling, the drive, the head injury, the depression.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
RandMart wrote:
Richard Blaine wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
Sport is pretty lonely sometimes... even more so in a "high performance" environment. Tends to be a culture where "weakness" is something to hide away from the world.

For a sport where concussions are certainly very possible - more or less depending on the discipline, I hope this starts to get more attention. Repeated blunt force trauma to the skull is certainly not an inherent part of cycling (unlike say football), but it's also not unheard of.


I get that. I realized that as well when I was thinking about this. My anger is twofold - first off, and most important, that the journos writing about this fail to point out the profound impact on mental health a (even single) concussion can have. And second that she rode for a pro team, and for USAC, and that both of these basically let her life spiral out of control. But I realize that there's only so much they can do.


Let's not forget the while she was training and racing, it says in the link below she was also pursuing a degree in computational and mathematical engineering


https://www.sfgate.com/...dies-at-13677705.php

So she's training hard, studying hard - which were overwhelming to begin with - then she sustains a head injury, whereupon she now has trouble concentrating, is susceptible to light, and so on, to the point that her studying is being affected as well

After her first attempt, I would think someone would have recommended to her that she back off in some way, but who's to say if it would've helped by then?


Pfft. Mathematical Engineering. Any idiot can do that, they even gave me the diploma (pink *and* backdoor brag. I'm on a roll).

I totally agree with you. It's probably a perfect storm of her own drive, the workload, her family environment where drive was valued, and finally the lack of mental health support at Stanford and from her team and USAC.

I'm still upset though. Maybe because it's all so familiar - the mathematics, the cycling, the drive, the head injury, the depression.

I'm totally with you. No one stepped up when so many knew. Inexcusable! In past times I've been there too and did not have such a support group. Hopefully the loss of such a shining light where we've had so few will spur organizations, and groups to look in the mirror and realize this is every bit as important as doping, etc. Oddly, ANY good coach sees the symptoms in athletes moods, yet where were they?
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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But how many "good" coaches will still say "Oh, just work through it?"

Or if the athlete does take time off, yet is still unfocused and sad or bitchy "It's just endorphin withdrawal"

Blessed are the Nobodies, for Theirs is the Kingdom of Fascinating Stories
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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Sadly, the solution used by most coaches is to take some time off, but that actually can have the opposite effect, in cutting one off from the support of their team/teammates.

Hopefully the team, and USAC learn from this, and work on implementing better support for athletes, and better concussion awareness programming.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [bluemonkeytri] [ In reply to ]
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It's a morbid but human interest - how did she take her life? Sometimes these are reported openly and sometimes not in the case of suicide. I don't see that in the articles. Certainly a sad day for the community.
John
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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johnnybefit wrote:
It's a morbid but human interest - how did she take her life? Sometimes these are reported openly and sometimes not in the case of suicide. I don't see that in the articles. Certainly a sad day for the community.
John

Please fuck off.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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johnnybefit wrote:
It's a morbid but human interest - how did she take her life? Sometimes these are reported openly and sometimes not in the case of suicide. I don't see that in the articles. Certainly a sad day for the community.
John
You're disgusting.

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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Blaine wrote:
johnnybefit wrote:
It's a morbid but human interest - how did she take her life? Sometimes these are reported openly and sometimes not in the case of suicide. I don't see that in the articles. Certainly a sad day for the community.
John


Please fuck off.

It's a natural question. You offered your own explanation for your attempt - pills as well as the support system that got you through it. You have share your story here for a number of years and I think it has helped many.
Many comments here focus on her family and support system and what the could have done.
It may offend you but that's OK - you are still here to post on ST. When involved with someone suffering through this it could be useful to discuss if there is a way to help. Perhaps there is something we all can learn here to help others in our lives suffering in this way. Nothing salacious about it.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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johnnybefit wrote:
Richard Blaine wrote:
johnnybefit wrote:
It's a morbid but human interest - how did she take her life? Sometimes these are reported openly and sometimes not in the case of suicide. I don't see that in the articles. Certainly a sad day for the community.
John


Please fuck off.


It's a natural question. You offered your own explanation for your attempt - pills as well as the support system that got you through it. You have share your story here for a number of years and I think it has helped many.
Many comments here focus on her family and support system and what the could have done.
It may offend you but that's OK - you are still here to post on ST. When involved with someone suffering through this it could be useful to discuss if there is a way to help. Perhaps there is something we all can learn here to help others in our lives suffering in this way. Nothing salacious about it.

Did you not comprehend the bolded response?

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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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I'm totally with you. No one stepped up when so many knew. Inexcusable!

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I'm not with you guys in suggesting it was other's fault or they didn't "support" her enough. Or better yet, I dont think you or I have any clue what they did or didn't do and that just because she successful took her life this time means they failed her. You can't put someone in a bubble, you can only be there for them and do everything you can for them. ETA: If you guys have evidence they ignored/didn't help, I'm all ears, especially when your putting blame on others for this situation. I find that pretty disguisting as well.

In the article the sister said she had a 2.5hr conversation with her 1 week prior to her death. She said she seemed fine and in a better place, not "suicidal".

So I think I'd hope the finger pointing doesn't occur or better yet have a much better grasp of what people around her did or didn't do to help her....And no just because she died doesn't mean imo they "failed" her. At some point we all have shit that we have to answer for ourselves.


ETA #2- I think we can look at this situation and assess what was and wasn't done to help her and potentially have better "steps" to help athletes in these situations...but at the same time this was an independent 23 year old woman. How far are you going to say people around her have to do stuff to make sure suicides don't occur? Take her out of school? Not let her race anymore? Put her in a hospital til she feels better...Concussion symptons can come and go for what 2 years? At some point people make really bad bad decisions and we can't always be there for someone when that bad decision is made....unfortunately.....I just find it wrong to say it was the family/friends/coaches/school's fault.

At the end of the day, you can support someone as best you can but unless your going to alter your own life to provide actual real life daily care for someone, people with stuff like this type of altered mental state will "fall through the cracks".

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Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Mar 11, 19 12:43
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the post.
One of my good friends suffered a TBI (fall while work on roof). He isn’t the same guy after. He has a lot of the classic symptoms of depression in men (moody, angry issues, low energy, flat affect, etc.). It only took one hit. What’s worse for him was that he developed seizures and had been on an anti epileptic Which just made him feel worse.
I kept telling our circle of friends that the fall changed him but they refused. Even my friend who does concussion screen for HS sports (but he’s a PT). I happened to have done my training at a school/hospital that’s on the forefront of sports med so I got some exposure. I think there’s still a poor understanding and education of TBI.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [ In reply to ]
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Rest in peace....
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Your view is fair to a certain degree Brooks. We don't know what support Kelly received. I think Richard B's point was more that people miss the causal link between concussions and mental health and as a result fail to provide the support and guidance needed after accidents. The mood swings, the headaches, the sensitivity to light were all very likely CAUSED by her concussion and not just peripherally related. And,...they would have gotten better with time! The fact this isn't better communicated to a lot of concussion victims is a travesty. ("it's going to be hard,...but it WILL get better").

I was there also after being run over by a car ~ 10 years ago. The months after a serious brain injury can be a very very bad time. At least in my case I'm not sure this was properly explained or communicated to me upon hospital discharge.

B_Doughtie wrote:
I'm totally with you. No one stepped up when so many knew. Inexcusable!

-----

I'm not with you guys in suggesting it was other's fault or they didn't "support" her enough. Or better yet, I dont think you or I have any clue what they did or didn't do and that just because she successful took her life this time means they failed her. You can't put someone in a bubble, you can only be there for them and do everything you can for them. ETA: If you guys have evidence they ignored/didn't help, I'm all ears, especially when your putting blame on others for this situation. I find that pretty disguisting as well.

In the article the sister said she had a 2.5hr conversation with her 1 week prior to her death. She said she seemed fine and in a better place, not "suicidal".

So I think I'd hope the finger pointing doesn't occur or better yet have a much better grasp of what people around her did or didn't do to help her....And no just because she died doesn't mean imo they "failed" her. At some point we all have shit that we have to answer for ourselves.
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Re: Did I miss the thread about Kelly Catlin? RIP Kelly [lschaan] [ In reply to ]
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 I think Richard B's point was more that people miss the causal link between concussions and mental health and as a result fail to provide the support and guidance needed after accidents.

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Yes but what's support or guidance? Who's to judge that. This is a 23 year old woman that was riding/school/life, this wasn't someone who was going to just get put under adult 24hr supervision.


So as I said unless we know what they did or didn't do, I find it a bit disguisting to point blame on others in these situations.

-USAT L2 coach, M.S. Exercise Physiology
https://www.instagram.com/alloutmultisport
http://www.aomultisport.com
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