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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i do not agree with the accepted view, the "proven" view, the experts' view. i went to high school at lake tahoe, lived in tahoe and reno through most of HS and most of college, about 10 years altogether, and live and train at altitude now.

the issue is not physiology. if you make your decisions based on the spurious and scant quasi-known physiological elements of this topic, you'll overlook the more important elements specific to comfort, pacing, sensory adaptation. i think you need about 4 days of being at altitude to acclimate, and i'm not talking about blood physiology, i'm talking about losing the sense of asphyxiation every time you go running. i think that's more important.

second, you need to go to altitude and swim. you need to go to altitude and run. if you're entered in that race, just go to altitude 2 or 3 times, for a weekend, and swim and run. there is no come to jesus in triathlon like trying to swim at 6000 or 7000 feet. cycling at altitude is not a problem. in fact, it's easier. swimming is the big problem, running is the second problem.

i live at 4000', and i regularly drive to 6000' or 7000' to run. that 3000' difference is probably the equivalent of going from sea level to 5000'. when i run at 7000' i don't feel anything. it's second nature. because i'm used to how it feels. it's the same lack of air. but i know how that feels. i know what pace to run. to start out a run. i know what it feels like. i'm adapted in a sensory way. that in my view is more important than trying to hit it right via some formula. going from lower altitude to higher altitude and hitting that right is like trying to hit a taper. good luck following science's advice on that one. your best bet, in my view, is to sensory adapt, and that means taking as many trips to altitude to train as possible, and then get to the race 4 days in advance.

when you do go there to train, do not train hard. just moderate. just get the feel of it.

So damn true. I remember in high school going from sea level out to Colorado Springs for a water polo development camp. Got to the OTC at night, the next morning immediately after breakfast was swimming 400m IMs in the dungeon pool at the AFA and thinking I had never experienced pain like that before. Absolutely brutal.
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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [Gurudriver10] [ In reply to ]
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Gurudriver10 wrote:
So far, a pretty idiotic thread with regard to responses! Only cogent responses here, please. Here's my strategy:

1) Stay below 5000' for majority of the trip until about 24 hours prior (friends in Sacramento and SFO). Might even check-in, drop equipment, and then head back down. Check in to hotel the afternoon prior near the start. Goal is to stay low until less than 24 hours prior.

2) Acclimation strategies require 2 full weeks or more at altitude! Can't do that. It's either <24 hours or >2+ weeks.

3) The swim is a problem for the first few minutes as evidenced by several friends who got real panicky in years past (XTerra and open water folks). The problem? Constrictive wetsuit, very cold water (website is lying about the temps, which will be probably mid-50s?), high altitude/lower oxygen, combative mass start, and elevated heart rate in general from the pressure altitude all will conspire to take one's breath away at the start. Get in and acclimate a little and fill up your wetsuit to get it warming up. The swim will likely take several people out in the first few minutes.

Not sure where you are from but I've spent many years in Tahoe and the website is not lying- the water, especially in King's Beach should be in the mid 60's if not low 70's if we have a hot Summer. Water temp will not be the issue at all- air temp will probably be in the 30's at start though. The elevation and metered breathing will be a BIG issue for many......

D

Team Every Man Jack

http://www.teamemj.com
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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [dmounts] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome! Thanks for the info.
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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [iheartfestina] [ In reply to ]
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Altitude tent, breathing control while swimming, training camps at high altitude, making sure your iron levels are ok. Getting as much sleep as you can. If your really serious about IMLT then doing a 2-3 week training camp at altitude is best. If not, doing some work at VO2 max efforts at sea level and breathing control while swimming.

http://www.MattRussellTri.com -Pro Triathlete -Tri Coach
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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [MattRussellTri] [ In reply to ]
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I had another one which is not prep related but execution related. It's related to "getting more oxygen". Yes, do breathing control at sea level, but when you get to 6400 feet, you will need more oxygen. I have been working on the technique where you breath every stroke.....by that I mean you breath on the right for every left hand entry and on the left for every right hand entry. I have gotten to the point that this feels comfortable, and although my 50 and 100m times are not better, my 200-400m times are better thanks to a lot more oxygen. I think this breathing pattern would be very helpful for a lot of Tahoe athletes. If you have not raced a try at Tahoe, the swim will be one of the biggest challenges. I raced the old World's Toughest Tri in Tahoe in 1993. It was 2 mile swim, 100 mile bike, 20 mile run. One of the guys posted a results sheet on another thread....looks like I was 11th overall after the swim and bike and then the altitude did me in!!! Funny thing is I did not know Cid Cardusa back then but he faded just as badly on the run....both of us were sea level guys suffering it out.



I really should be back racing Tahoe this year as this year is 20 years since the 1993 event!
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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev, IMLT will be a piece of cake compared to the original World's Toughest.

The water will be much warmer, a bunch less elevation gain on the bike (no need to climb to the top of Monitor) and a relatively flat run - don't even have to go bouldering around Fallen Leaf Lake.

:)

Team Kiwami
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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [owtbac86] [ In reply to ]
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owtbac86 wrote:
Dev, IMLT will be a piece of cake compared to the original World's Toughest.

The water will be much warmer, a bunch less elevation gain on the bike (no need to climb to the top of Monitor) and a relatively flat run - don't even have to go bouldering around Fallen Leaf Lake.

:)

What is my excuse for not doing Tahoe?...I'm only doing Tremblant IM and then Vegas 3 weeks apart...I see you on on deck for IMCda+Whistler+Tahoe+Kona in the span of around 3 months! Don't remind me about that run around Fallen Leaf lake....that was more like a long hike with low blood sugar and no oxygen trying not to fall off a cliff and plummeting 300 feet into a lake....no way they would use that run loop or the Monitor descent in an Mdot race. Man, on the Monitor descent, I thought I was doing to die going over a cattle grate at 50 mph!!!
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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [TheBeek] [ In reply to ]
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nope...climb high sleep low

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [kbird] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure about triathlon...although I am doing IMLT but I know when I do high altitude mountain climbing we cycle up 1500-3000 ft a day and drop some gear and then go back down to sleep and then move up the next day. So basically we can adapt to 1000 meters every 2 days.

Not sure what it means from a SBR perspective but in my experience we can definitely adjust from 7000 to 20000 feet in 5-6 days...

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
owtbac86 wrote:
Dev, IMLT will be a piece of cake compared to the original World's Toughest.

The water will be much warmer, a bunch less elevation gain on the bike (no need to climb to the top of Monitor) and a relatively flat run - don't even have to go bouldering around Fallen Leaf Lake.

:)


What is my excuse for not doing Tahoe?...I'm only doing Tremblant IM and then Vegas 3 weeks apart...I see you on on deck for IMCda+Whistler+Tahoe+Kona in the span of around 3 months! Don't remind me about that run around Fallen Leaf lake....that was more like a long hike with low blood sugar and no oxygen trying not to fall off a cliff and plummeting 300 feet into a lake....no way they would use that run loop or the Monitor descent in an Mdot race. Man, on the Monitor descent, I thought I was doing to die going over a cattle grate at 50 mph!!!

Hey, it's not too late - there's probably still a community fund/charity entry still available. :)

Yeah, the supreme commander gave me permission on the race schedule; figured if the barn door opened, the horse might as well take advantage of it...

I agree, Dev - the WTT descents over the cattle grates were pretty unnerving. Good thing Mdot doesn't use that course - ST probably couldn't handle all of the folks posting after the race.

Team Kiwami
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Re: Definitive Ironman Lake Tahoe Altitude Strategy Thread [iheartfestina] [ In reply to ]
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iheartfestina wrote:
I've seen a wide range of commentary on the effects of altitude on athletes at IMLT. This is a thread for experts to draw up a concrete protocol - not for anecdotes and conjecture. Please add other key questions that are not included.

What is the optimal strategy for arrival at altitude before the event?
Will an altitude tent help at this event? If so, how much?
Will frequent hypoxic training at altitude or with an altitude training mask help? If so, how much?
What effect will the thinner air/lower air resistance have on bike speeds?
Are there any other precautions one can take to limit the effects of altitude immediately before the race (supplements, sleep, nutrition, ect.)?

Nick

I am going to give this a try at the Tahoe 50M run in July and I'll let you know my thoughts :

http://www.mmaltitudetraining.com/

Here's their detailed documentation - http://mmaltitudetraining.com/...Mountain%20Might.pdf


Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach
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