those guys aren't the only ones. here's the last $1,500 wetsuit to get tested. i swam them all down, against the clock, the 8 wetsuit brands that mattered most to me, using a consistent protocol. the freak was a $750 wetsuit with a $750 wrap of bullshit around it. which was quite fine. but the hurricane 5 was every inch as fast.

i have no problem with whatever any company wants to do; what it wants to make; what it wants to charge. TYR was an advertiser at the time, was a slowtwitch partner, but the test was the test and i couldn't lie about it. you could buy 2 lesser-priced TYR wetsuits for the same price as 1 freak and you'd have been 1 wetsuit ahead.

the hurricane 5 was the fastest wetsuit of all, back in 2012, that i tested. by maybe a second per 100. and, that's probably a case of the suit fitting me exceptionally well. but you needed an extra suit, because that wetsuit had a pretty delicate calf, and it was vulnerable to calf blowouts when putting it on, unless you took care (which is a good idea in any case).

there's a difference between $1,500 wetsuits and $15,000 bikes. i can be in the wetsuit business tomorrow. with no development costs. knowing nothing about wetsuits. not so a shiv disc or a P3X.

still, it's incumbent on every brand to justify its value, whether bike, wetsuit or whatever the product. the freak was, in my opinion, in retrospect, a cynical exercise in finding out just how stupid customers really were. you might say that about campy super record. or rapha. or assos. and that isn't to throw shade on any brand, just, are these products worth the price? a consumer can be, simultaneously, value driven and performance driven. the trick is to figure out where performance no longer tracks with price - where the price continues to escalate but the performance remains level.

i don't know anything about deboer wetsuits. they may well be worth the price charged. but, i have a little background in this, and i don't see it. yet. i'm willing to be educated. monty has been around since the beginning of tri wetsuits, if he gets one of these and swims in it perhaps he can demystify it for us.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I've been surprised at the negativity in this thread, to be sure. Did deboer kick their puppy or something? As you say, this is the price of *components* on the bike - a new wheelset is easily more than this.

I'd like to see an evenhanded take on their products, because what they're doing is interesting. What technology are they using? What's their design philosophy? And where do they see themselves going? All remains unanswered.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

I understand a lot of the negativity to be honest. From the outside perspective (not in the wetsuit industry, not an entrepreneur), it looks like some company came in with a lot of seed money and paid a few of the worlds best athletes a lot of money, knowing that if they would sell enough potentially (definitely in my opinion) overpriced wetsuits to suckers or people with way too much money. I have no doubt their wetsuits are great. I'm sure I would love swimming in one. But how could it possibly be worth twice what the next most expensive wetsuit goes for? I'm also not questioning the effectiveness of their business strategy, though I do think it feels a little bit slimy to me.

I think I should be clear that I come into this sport never having had any real money, I bought the wetsuit I swim in used and it has probably two dozen dime-quarter sized tears in it. I've always looked for the cheapest way into each discipline and the only truly high end piece of gear I ever bought new was my Dash saddle, which I was able to test first and still got at a slight discount through my fitter. Do I have a slight amount of bitterness that I can't afford this wetsuit? Honestly I don't think so, if I had the money for it I think I would buy a top of the line Roka and upgrade to oversized pulley wheels or something with the extra money.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Using influencers/spokespeople to sell product is hardly new. And it's not "slimy" marketing tactics from the company since they aren't forcing you to pay for their wares. The issue a lot of people take with any new product is a marketer making claims they don't (or can't) substantiate.

Some people complain about the price, but paying it is a choice they can make. If it means that other companies will raise prices in step, that opens up new opportunities for lower-cost entrants. All of this is a choice by the consumer. By corollary, hanes sells a t-shirt for $3, and Gucci for $300. Both serve the purpose of covering your torso. Some people will spring for the expensive item because of prestige, and some won't.

I just want to know the mechanisms behind the "whale skin" being faster. It's a weekend and they're busy with races, so I can wait for an answer. But a cursory look at the suits and their claims doesn't fall in line with physics.

So lets do a theoretical thought experiment and assume that their claims down actually align with physics as you say they may not. If this turns out to be true doesn't that make them kind of slimy or scammy? Charge twice the price for the exact same product? Of course people don't have to buy them, I stated in my last post that I don't doubt that their tactics work. I guess I forgot to say that I do think that's perfectly a perfectly fair tactic for them to use, but I can think that and still think its slimy. Or at least wreaks of slime. I would have no problem getting proved wrong though.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Your initial point was that hiring spokespeople to sell something at a 100% premium was slimy. I disagree with that. Making unsubstantiated or blanketly false claims about a products efficacy, and then pricing based on those claims, however, is slimy. I won't say this is definitely the situation here until I hear more about the tech. It doesn't pass muster with me yet, based on a visual of the suit and the website literature, but I'm open to be proven wrong.

I personally won't drop 1500 on a wetsuit, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for them. I would just like to see that market properly informed of the product.

I don’t get why anyone is shocked by the negativity. It’s $1500, making it by far the most expensive wetsuit. I don’t know if it’s “worth it”but I DO know that it’s expensive...and I think it’s fair to bitch about it being that: expensive. Why can’t people just be negative for that reason only. Just like buyingnthensuit, being negative and having an opinion is a choice. And this IS a forum for opinions and discussion, and yet you and others are surprised by negativity?!? Really???

G'day Monty,

I was just wondering if you've had a swim in the deboer wetty yet, and if you'll be doing a review for the site.

Thanks very much for your time mate.

Blue seventy

ROKA

DeSoto

All allow you to test and decide if you want to keep their wetsuit

This company doesn’t allow that

If they did I would buy one in a heart beat to test

Am I the only one who thinks it looks incredibly boring as well? At least with the TYR Freak of Nature you get abs with your purchase.

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Team Zoot 2023

G'day Monty,

I was just wondering if you've had a swim in the deboer wetty yet, and if you'll be doing a review for the site.

Thanks very much for your time mate. //

I have had a chat with the company, a suit is supposed to be coming my way to test. Will let you all know once it is done..

Great stuff Monty!

Thanks very much for your reply, much appreciated mate.

Great to hear this.

Your review is what prompted me to buy my current wetsuit

I just saw this comment catching-up in this thread. I am curious if you have anything written you could point to about efficiently getting out of the water. I think I kind of suck at this.

How much money do they have? They're tossing a whole lot around.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Literally the reason I own this suit. #littlethingsmatter

Seems like the heavy marketing that Ventum did when they came out. Relative to other sports or products, the upfront investment required to do this might be modest in triathlon. Sometimes all it takes is one angel investor or two

My natural reaction would be to I agree with your comment, but for the sake of reducing negativity it helps to take the other perspective:

I can't afford this suit, but if I could and I enjoyed owning/swimming in it, why would it make me a sucker for buying it? If something brings you $1500 of joy, it's worth $1500. It doesn't have to be twice as fast as a $750, nor would we expect it to work that way. It only needs to at least be marginally better (in any dimension) than those suits for someone with money to find value in it. And why draw the line at $1500? You say it's double the price of the next most expensive suit but TYR's top suit is $1200, Roka's is $950, HUUB's is $900, BlueSeventy's is $850, Speedo's is $850, and so on. They might be better value for the money, but we don't know yet whether DeBoer is better or worse. The complaints are only about cost, which don't make much sense when there are plenty of wealthy athletes in tri who perceive a $1500 purchase the way we see a $100 purchase.

The last line reminds me of car conversations. "If I could afford a low-end Ferrari, I'd buy a top-end Corvette and X and Y and Z, instead" when in reality someone who can afford these things can likely just get X and Y and Z anyway. DeBoer customers, especially the ones that will buy before it's shown to be any faster than sub$1000 suits, can easily pick up an OSPW as well.

The MOP racers on $15,000 bikes know they aren't getting top bang-for-the-buck either, so it doesn't make them suckers. They got something they enjoy and that's great for them. The existence of a $1500 wetsuit shouldn't offend me if it makes someone feel good, if not fast.

They had them available to swim in at IMTX through Playtri. Anyone use one?

The issue I have with these super high ends suits is that at the price ranges slightly below the stratosphere there appears to be an inverse relation between price and durability.

My Huub Archimedes II just started falling apart at the seams after one year of not too heavy usage (I usually use a Chinese Zaosou wetsuit for most of my training swims that is build like a tank but unfortunately is a bit too large by now). Granted, the seller (and maybe Huub) accepted a warranty claim and refunded me (thumbs up) but still: I'd hate to spent 1.3k on something I might be able to use in maybe 5-10 races. Spending a ton of money on a bike that lasts for 5+ years is one thing but I feel that wetsuits moving more and more into the running shoe / consumable territory.

I just picked up a Sailfish One btw. which will be my suit going forward. It feels quite nice and fits perfectly but I have no idea regarding its durability, keeping my fingers crossed, though.

LOL, sure. Triathletes will buy anything. The sad thing is all the poor suckers who really can't afford something this expensive but will buy it anyway. 99% of us would benefit way more from better training than from expensive wetsuits. Dropping $1,500 on a wetsuit is so completely unnecessary. I think if someone showed up at an AG start line wearing one of those he/she might as well be wearing a sign on their forehead that said "TOOL". Surest thing to have people laugh at you, even if it makes you one minute faster (hilarious...).

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http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

True ... triathletes buy anything ..... but does one really care what people think. If I purchased a deboer wetsuit and I m thinking about it, currently wearing a Roka Maverick X and there is nothing wrong with it, but I like change and trying something else. And if and when I turn up to a race in a deboer wetsuit do I care what other triathlete think??? Not a chance .... I do triathlons for myself and not for others, and I will wear what I feel suits me best or simply what I like, and what I can get for my money.

And yes one minute faster is always better than one minute slower. I take that any day, especially as I suck at running & cycling and swimming is the only thing I m good at. :)

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N+1
Strava

I too have a ROKA

I’d buy this one in a second to test and see if it makes me faster

Unfortunately they don’t allow a return if you have used it

Hold tight guys, I'm still testing this suit, had a little sizing issue, but getting that worked out. Will have a write up later on when all is done..

Swam in a demo one at lake Placid today. Did one loop of the course. It was very nice and there was a lot of flexibility in the arms. But I prefer my blueseventy Reaction by a mile which I think is less than a third the price. I really don’t see how this company stays in business. People that want a sexy and more expensive brand buy Roka. I don’t see that changing. Also, it a boring visual design. All black.