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Re: Deboer wetsuits [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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Gotta be onbrand

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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i might be able to find this info else where but is the wetsuit targeted good swimmers/all swimmers or something else? from what i read the diff. between the two suit is warmth.
But as know from other brands their very top line suit has less bouyancy as it is for the elite with good form. Is this the same case or?
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [Daniel Clarke] [ In reply to ]
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Daniel Clarke wrote:
gd28 wrote:
Can you point to any testing that has been done to compare Jan, Ben, and other's performance with other wetsuits on the market?


The short answer is no, we don't currently have any publicly available data that would be almost the equivalent of a bike companies white paper. I know the anecdotal feedback we get from athletes doesn't satisfy the Slowtwitch community, but as an example Ben swam his fastest 100y in the Fjord 1.0 since his high school swim team days.

If you're at an event where we're doing demos try it for yourself. We're going to be at VillaSport in the Woodlands on Thursday on the off chance you're in the area. We've rented a few lanes at their pool from 11am - 3pm and it's going to be free to any athlete to swim. We will have a few demo wetsuits there that you can try on, or if you just want to get in a pre-race swim without demo-ing a wetsuit you can do that too.

Hi Daniel,

Anecdotal feedback from paid representatives is nice and many of the athletes in your roster are very selective with their equipment.

But I am confused when products are marketed on the back of extensive claims about objective "finely tuned and extensively tested" technology that increases the efficiency of each stroke and kick and "aiding in forward propulsion." Personally, I feel if your marketing platform is willing to make these kinds of claims, it is incumbent upon a brand to back that up with data. If not, I think it is just as plausible to go with the other half of your marketing strategy which seems to be "cool people think we are cool, and you will be a little bit cooler too if you buy this wetsuit."

In addition, I was happy to see the diversity in your models.

And finally, I'm not sure I'd highlight the connection to Dare2Tri wetsuits. Friends use them and universally complain about how quickly they fail after a few uses. I know it's an entirely different price point, but not a ringing endorsement in my eyes.

From the deboer website:
AquaGripâ„¢
The perfectly measured, positioned, finely tuned and extensively tested grooves reduce turbulence and increase the surface area in contact with the water, increasing the efficiency of each stroke and kick and aiding in forward propulsion.
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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lassekk wrote:
i might be able to find this info else where but is the wetsuit targeted good swimmers/all swimmers or something else? from what i read the diff. between the two suit is warmth.
But as know from other brands their very top line suit has less bouyancy as it is for the elite with good form. Is this the same case or?

Both the Fjord and the Floh are targeted towards all swimmers. With the materials we developed we did not have to sacrifice buoyancy for flexibility. You're right, it really is warmth between the two suits. The Fjord's arms are only 0.3mm thick, so they don't provide a lot of warmth, but they do offer incredible shoulder mobility.

Work for deboer wetsuits
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [Darren325] [ In reply to ]
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Darren325 wrote:
Daniel Clarke wrote:
gd28 wrote:
Can you point to any testing that has been done to compare Jan, Ben, and other's performance with other wetsuits on the market?


The short answer is no, we don't currently have any publicly available data that would be almost the equivalent of a bike companies white paper. I know the anecdotal feedback we get from athletes doesn't satisfy the Slowtwitch community, but as an example Ben swam his fastest 100y in the Fjord 1.0 since his high school swim team days.

If you're at an event where we're doing demos try it for yourself. We're going to be at VillaSport in the Woodlands on Thursday on the off chance you're in the area. We've rented a few lanes at their pool from 11am - 3pm and it's going to be free to any athlete to swim. We will have a few demo wetsuits there that you can try on, or if you just want to get in a pre-race swim without demo-ing a wetsuit you can do that too.


Hi Daniel,

Anecdotal feedback from paid representatives is nice and many of the athletes in your roster are very selective with their equipment.

But I am confused when products are marketed on the back of extensive claims about objective "finely tuned and extensively tested" technology that increases the efficiency of each stroke and kick and "aiding in forward propulsion." Personally, I feel if your marketing platform is willing to make these kinds of claims, it is incumbent upon a brand to back that up with data. If not, I think it is just as plausible to go with the other half of your marketing strategy which seems to be "cool people think we are cool, and you will be a little bit cooler too if you buy this wetsuit."

In addition, I was happy to see the diversity in your models.

And finally, I'm not sure I'd highlight the connection to Dare2Tri wetsuits. Friends use them and universally complain about how quickly they fail after a few uses. I know it's an entirely different price point, but not a ringing endorsement in my eyes.

From the deboer website:
AquaGripâ„¢
The perfectly measured, positioned, finely tuned and extensively tested grooves reduce turbulence and increase the surface area in contact with the water, increasing the efficiency of each stroke and kick and aiding in forward propulsion.

I've been in touch with Monty about getting him a wetsuit to test and review to provide Slowtwitch with an unbiased opinion.

Work for deboer wetsuits
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [Darren325] [ In reply to ]
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But I am confused when products are marketed on the back of extensive claims about objective "finely tuned and extensively tested" technology that increases the efficiency of each stroke and kick and "aiding in forward propulsion." Personally, I feel if your marketing platform is willing to make these kinds of claims, it is incumbent upon a brand to back that up with data.//

Hey Darren, you are absolutely right in you assesment of the claims made here. And of course it is standard procedure for virtually all brands to do this, so it is up to us to sort this stuff out. I went to their site and what struck me at first was the sizing chart. We all know that no matter how great a suit is, if it doesn't fit well, it will suck. An inferior suit with a better fit will trump all the bells and whistles of a high end suit. Of course it would be nice to get it all in one suit, so there is no compromise. There are two suits in their line that look to suit me, so no doubt I can get a really well fitted suit to test.


As for all the other stuff, well it should show up overall in the actual test. I have gotten my protocols down to a pretty good +/-, which is not easy in swimming field tests. But without wind tunnel like precision, this is the best we can do. Over the past 20 years we have been able to see very small differences in just swim suits, to the point that they had to be outlawed for their advanced performance in swimming. We dont have those issues in triathlon at the moment, so if something is technologically advanced from the status quo, we are allowed to use it, until we aren't. You all remember the Water Rover???


Hopefully I can get some info and testing done on the suit, you all will be the first to know the results...(-;
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [thatzone] [ In reply to ]
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thatzone wrote:
Did Ben do Oceanside 2018 ? To compare vs 2019.

One could swim in an ocean twice in a span of 2 hours and get completely different results...

808 > NYC > PDX
2020 Goals & Races?: Rocky Pt cycling sub-20, Pittock run from Macleay sub-20, Larch Mt cycling 1:05, Saltzman run sub-30 | DRVTT Stage race?, CdA 70.3?, Hagg Lake Oly?, Honu 70.3?, NZ 70.3 WC?
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder if the cost, and the features are being considered above the actual speed of the suit. Much like helmets, and bike position, etc....wetsuits have a similar dynamic. A 'fast' suit is not fast for everyone. You can evaluate the energy cost of different suits- as seen here, and be sure. This is very specific to each athlete (like a helmet- not all 'fast' helmets are fast for everyone). This testing is done in flume, using lactate and VO2 data, along with INSCYD to run the analysis. This can also be done with running shoes (to determine what shoe gives the best run economy).
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [telemarkskier] [ In reply to ]
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You are correct, only problem with the flume though, is the water is moving against you and with your pull. They are great for working out, but they also create a dynamic that just doesn't occur in the real world, unless you swim upstream somewhere. In a race, you are either pulling still water, or swimming in the draft, the exact opposite of what the flume does. So all those details of bubbles, catch, flotation, etc, are changed drastically in the flume..

I wish it were not so, because the flume does provide an exact work load on a swimmer, it just doesn't mimic actual water swimming conditions. I do like it for V02 max stuff and measuring loads on the body, that is where it is most effective..
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [STConcierge] [ In reply to ]
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STConcierge wrote:
ggeiger wrote:
Maybe STConcierge will chime in. She's the queen of neoprene.

Ding ding... chiming in here.
It looks like a well-thought out and nicely crafted suit with premium materials throughout. If it's 94% limestone, it's Yamamoto.
I'm in favor of supporting pros, but this seems over the top. If I wanted to drop 1500 bones (US), not on a bike, I'd buy a $425-500 suit and spend the rest entering a really cool non-branded race and traveling there w friends/family. PM if you'd like to know which races and which suit(s.)

Oh dear, I spoke too soon, and will have to pull that spitball off the ceiling and the egg off my face.
Apparently the suit's not crafted from Yamamoto neoprene.
There are some great materials out there, but Yamamoto's more robust cell structure seems to maintain its durability, buoyancy, and flexibility the longest.

Karen ST Concierge
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone pay full price for a Roka? It seems that standard pricing is 30-40% off with all the email discounts and team offers.
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [Daniel Clarke] [ In reply to ]
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What Swimskin will Frodo be racing in come October? Asking for a friend ...


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Re: Deboer wetsuits [STConcierge] [ In reply to ]
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One of these days Durex will make a one use disposible wetsuit that's black in colour and slides on easily, is tight fitting, charge triathlete's $2000 per suit because it weighs 5g and make a killing......

David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [georged] [ In reply to ]
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They've also got Daniela Ryf signed up - just posted on her Instagram.
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [ni31mo] [ In reply to ]
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ni31mo wrote:
They've also got Daniela Ryf signed up - just posted on her Instagram.

Well that settles it then! We must be like the pros!

Totally kidding. I could care less what the pros are using.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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How long until we have to check-out our wetsuits from transition along with our bikes? At $1500, I'd be worried about somebody stealing it. Is there a microchipping option? Joking. Sort of.
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [proftri] [ In reply to ]
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proftri wrote:
How long until we have to check-out our wetsuits from transition along with our bikes? At $1500, I'd be worried about somebody stealing it. Is there a microchipping option? Joking. Sort of.
Not even a little joking. For that price I better get a "happy ending" at the end of each race from that suit. Wow!
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [georged] [ In reply to ]
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georged wrote:
Does anyone know anything about Deboer wetsuits?

They've got Frodo selling their wares, so they must be reasonable. And if competition makes Roka wetsuits a little cheaper...

If anyone is in The Woodlands for Ironman Texas and want's to demo a deboer wetsuit we have rented 3 lanes at VillaSports tomorrow from 11AM - 3PM. We wont have a full size range, but at the very least we will have mens medium and large, and womens medium. Also, if you don't want to try the wetsuits but want to get in a pre-race swim you're more than welcome to stop by with no obligation to demo a suit. It's free for anybody who'd like to come and swim.

You can also check out the wetsuits at Playtri in the IMTX expo area.

Work for deboer wetsuits
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [Daniel Clarke] [ In reply to ]
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Can you speak to how the ribbing aids in both "increasing buoyancy while decreasing drag?"

I can, maybe, make a case for the latter (vortex generation to reduce skin friction, blah blah) but the former seems a bit far-fetched based on the images I've seen of the suit. Simply carving out channels of material to increase surface area by 18.3% (per your website) will not give the results you claim. If anything, it would result in less lift since you're removing neoprene volume while maintaining a max 5mm thickness by rule.
Last edited by: Khilgendorf: Apr 26, 19 15:13
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [georged] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone know anything about Deboer wetsuits?


Just found out about them myself.

I've been through through the wetsuit wars myself on the business side. Tough/interesting market for a number of different reasons:

1. There are already a number of key players involved.

2. Swimming is the sport discipline that triathletes generally have the least amount of interest in.

3. It's also the discipline (swimming) that triathletes don't seem to really understand - you need to put A LOT of time in the pool to get really good/fast. A wetsuit will only help so much - BUT the cool thing is that it actually helps the slower swimmers more than the naturally faster swimmers (assuming great fit - read on)

4. Brands go on and on about wetsuit tech - some of it does make sense and actually does work - but the #1 key thing about how a wetsuit will work well (making you swim faster) is FIT!

5. And that fit dynamic is tricky - every person's body and swim stroke is different - to the point that different brands, work better and are faster/better on different swimmers!

6. But the one constant is that the wet suit needs to fit tight - probably uncomfortably tight. It's hard to come up with a compelling protocol to test suits, but a number of years ago Desert Dude aka Brian Stover, as well as Jordan Rapp did some pool testing of various wetsuit brands. I seem to recall that of the 5 - 6 suits they each tested, each suit that tested fastest for them of the 5 - 6 was the one that felt the most uncomfortable swimming in! Now - going back to #5 whatever the order of the suits were for Brian and Jordan from 1 - 5, someone else could test the same suits, using the same protocol and the order would be completely different!!

7. Most triathletes don't even have their wetsuits on right. When I was in the business, we would go to races, set up a pop-up tent and then help and show people how to put a wetsuit on properly before the swim start (There is a specific technique). When doing this, we discovered that a majority of triathletes are swimming in a wetsuit one size larger than they should be swimming in (Read #6 over again). Why? They are buying for, "comfort"!

Tough/Interesting business for sure!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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was about to hit buy-now but it looks like i'd be ST size which is not available in either model... oh well, i can afford to eat instead

i note that both suits are all black, i believe there are material reasons for black neoprene but a bit of colour on the back of the shoulders would be good for training safety, though i guess at that price it would be a race only suit

they do claim better durability so if it lasts twice as long as a cheaper suit as well as being faster then the price could be justified

wetsuits do seem to be an under-discussed piece of equipment. for a weak swimmer like me anything that can help is like gold - i know i need to swim more but just like with superbikes and nike shoes its not an either/or situation. i suspect there is real time to be gained with correct wetsuit choice but i really have no idea what that means in practice
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [pk1] [ In reply to ]
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With $1500 wetsuits and $5000 (or whatever) handlebars the Nike shoes look like a bargain.
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [tilburs] [ In reply to ]
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tilburs wrote:
One of these days Durex will make a one use disposible wetsuit that's black in colour and slides on easily, is tight fitting, charge triathlete's $2000 per suit because it weighs 5g and make a killing......

Well it is... "Ribbed, for her pleasure"

"Aquabike is a swim then sleep session on aerobars ...."
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [Daniel Clarke] [ In reply to ]
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For $1500 I expect the suit to be made with actual whale’s skin, not some cheap rubber imitation.
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Re: Deboer wetsuits [georged] [ In reply to ]
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Lot of shade in this thread. Why can't we be happy this stuff exists for those who can afford it? It could be the P5x of wetsuits for the price of a cheap rear disc
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