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Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach
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OK, I appreciate that this isn't going to get many responses, as I know that all Slowtwitchers only over achieve. But stay with me.

Been doing IM since 2005, mixed results, didn't really take it 'seriously' until 2 years ago which was as a result of a come back from some serious injuries / surgery from trail running. So then got a coach, was pretty dedicated and in training / B races got some really surprisingly good results. A races have been Ironman NZ last 2 years, and both been disappointing relative to my training and race plans. In both cases there were 'reasons' but the outcome was the same - not delivering on 850 hours of training each time and a year of 4:30am/5am starts.

First year my goal was to get to the start line fit (remember was a return to racing year) and after a strong half ironman in January (4:42) off no taper and as the end of a big block I was keeping with / ahead of most my training buddies. Come the race, things went OK in swim and bike, and first half of run, but some late course nutrition changes caught me out, and I spent final lap spewing. So finished in a (PB time of) 11:3x an hour and a bit down on where I was heading after 28km.

This year, training was impacted by some injuries. Blew a hamstring first week of July, 3 weeks out from what would have been the first of two marathons in August. Coaches plan for those were to push for 3:15 - reality I think was always going to be 3:20. Then that led to a chain of other issues, tear in plantar fascia, post tibial ligament, achilles, etc. In the end it wasn't until start of December I was back running, but spent that time really working on my swim (traditional weakness) and keeping my bike going (traditional strength).

Managed to put a good block in over xmas and again managed an OK half ironman in January - especially off a month of running. 4:45 and recovered well in the week after. More good consistent trainign January / Feb and 3 weeks out from the race then every metric (swim, bike FTP / HR) Run (pace, HR, distance) was up on the year before.

Just under 2 weeks out I did something to my back in a freak event - never had any issues before, but spent the 10 days pre race with physio, dry needling, manipulations and wolfing down ibuprofen and paracetamol to be able to work, get any sleep.

Come race day I really didn't know if I was going to start, or how the bike especially would go. But what happened was a really slow and disappointing swim (1:09 compared to 1:06 the year before), a 5:15 bike (but was 8 mins slower lap 2 as feeling exhausted) and then a total shambles of a run where my back went into spasm and I had to walk the majority of it. Finish time was 11:56 with the last 5km being the only time I really managed to run at my target pace (5:10/km) after I'd stopped, eaten some chips, had some more pain killers and just emptied the tank.

So now it's the end of the season, I need to get my body fixed (I'm M45 and so reality is I'm not bouncing back as quick, and still have the injuries from last October I've been managing and haven't healed). But I'm trying to get my head around how to approach future A races. With two underperformances now, I'm building a monkey on my own back to make me doubt myself. I've already decided to not do full distance next year, limit to 'multiple A' races at half distance. Body, work and relationships mean that 3 years of Ironman training in a row wasn't going to be viable.

Anyone got any thoughts, experience? (And yes, HTFU, take the concrete pills, get a grip and think about this whining in the context of the world at the moment are all legitimate and expected responses).
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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You may be overthinking it. Your first race went well until you had nutrition issues. Your second race, you were injured and taking drugs to get to sleep. I'll guess you just went into the race sleep deprived, but it is a bit hard to tell. And a 3 minute difference in an IM swim could be any of a number of small things: wind/surface current, a few good drafts, a miss-sighting or two.

That said I think the biggest issue you have is too much self pressure. Race often enough that: you have your routine down pat, you sleep excellent the night before the race, and you are never thinking "I wonder if I can hit time hh:mm". You show up, give it what you have, take home the result you deserved. Fundamentally, self pressure often results in poor quality sleep the night of, or even several nights before, a race. Try staying up all night some time, then go train in the morning, and you'll quickly see how a sleepless night, the night before your race, ruins your ability to perform.

2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Paul Dunn] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Paul. I see that, and 'overthinking' is one of my core strengths.... ;-)

But what I loop back to is more the 'Ironman blues' part - That's still 1700 hours of training and 2 years with 'nothing to show for it' other than validation that I'm 'average' at best.* A lot of sacrifice by my wife, a lot of money poured into the black hole of ironman with the race entry fee a tiny percentage of that.


* and I genuinely mean no offence at all for those that aspire to finish in 13, 14, 17 hours. Indeed once I'd finished I was back out to the run course to midnight supporting everyone, including a training buddy aiming for her first finish. I just got genetically lucky that I can cycle well which moves the goalposts / recalibrates expectations in longer distance triathlons.
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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It sounds like you may need some perspective. What would success look like to you? A 10:30 IM performance?

In reality, the difference between a 10:30 and an 11:30 is virtually nothing in the long run. If you don't enjoy the process of the 850hrs of training and the lifestyle, simply don't do it. It's not your day job, this is a hobby that you are choosing to pursue

As for the two races, you blew nutrition on one and were injured for the other. I wouldn't overthink that. Any endurance sport with 8+ hour races is tough to master. Hell, look how many pros attempt to peak for Kona and still blow it. And they've raced dozens of times.

In short: enjoy the process, learn from your mistakes, and keep doing it as long as it's fun
Last edited by: indianacyclist: Mar 16, 20 14:27
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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850 hours/year that a freaking lot! Probably top 2% of Ironman finishers (and top 70% of slowtwitchers, but they all pink Kona-qualifiers, :)

Just a thought: Are you sure you're doing it effectively (i.e recovery and supercompensation)? Or like persona in Matt Dixon books, just pushing hours is gray zone?
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [ask77nl] [ In reply to ]
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Linking the responses to the two posts above together. I do actually do this for the training, the process and the routine. And so that in part explains the hours. But I need to have a goal of a race there to justify / motivate that level of investment (of time).

Note that that time includes 2-3 hours of Pilates a week, that's the first session that goes into training peaks as part of the 'keep healthy' baseline.

I have a coach that I have huge faith in, and indeed the issue I had before I got coached was more over training and injury, not undertraining. And so I'm comfortable that the rest is in there. We are good at communicating, and on a couple of occasions I've raised the flag and said I need an easy weekend to catch up on some sleep.

As for what I'd see as success - delivering the race plan. That would have led to a 10:30 last week in the conditions we had. So no-where near KQ (and I have no desire for that).
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:

Come race day I really didn't know if I was going to start, or how the bike especially would go. But what happened was a really slow and disappointing swim (1:09 compared to 1:06 the year before), a 5:15 bike (but was 8 mins slower lap 2 as feeling exhausted) and then a total shambles of a run where my back went into spasm and I had to walk the majority of it. Finish time was 11:56 with the last 5km being the only time I really managed to run at my target pace (5:10/km) after I'd stopped, eaten some chips, had some more pain killers and just emptied the tank.

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Same age group and similar 70.3 times (4.3x and 10.27 for full). What were the IM races? So many people go too hard on the bike, have a poor run, start blaming nutrition etc Especially in a full. A 70.3 you can kind of get away with biking too hard, a full, it can add hours to your time. You said you felt exhausted the second lap, that's not a good sign. It shouldn't feel that hard.

Do you know what your power/HR was for the race where you went 5.15 and how does it compare to your 70.3 data? Also you said nutrition changes caused you to be sick. Are you sure it was the nutrition? I've got sick twice in races and it was because I overcooked the bike. Lots of people cite nutrition as the issue when really it's the over-exertion or lack of fitness that has made them sick. I might have vomited 5 mins after taking a gel, but when you've been going for 9 hours in the heat and have gone too hard, even water is going to make you sick. But people will blame the gel.


And I'm not really sure what your issue is, as it seems that it's injuries and subsequently a lack of consistent training that are to blame, rather than just not performing on the day or poor pacing?
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Hi, thanks for taking time to reply. In response to the above, I'm satisfied I didn't overbike either time, and that's obviously a coach conversation. The second lap I was flat as which given power data could not be related to going too hard, I'm more likely suspecting was down to the ibuprofen/paracetamol leading to digestion issues with the nutrition I'd practiced with plenty of times. Example 4 weeks earlier I'd done full distance course recce at race pace using nutrition in lot harder conditions (hotter and windier) and still felt better. Anyway, as below.....

I guess what I ddin't explain well is how do I 'process' deal with it now. Sure there are always lessons to learn to improve for next time, but that's 24 months away and I'm kinda struggling a bit with the here and now. All the eggs in that A-race basket, and it didn't pan out. So I'm feeling deflated and frustrated. Clearly wish there was a rewind button, but as there isn't, what's the mental play book from here? In some ways I'm kinda glad that the current events mean that all races of any sort are cancelled for forseable as it stops me trying to jump back into trainign for a standalone marathon, etc for 'redemption' and let my body recover. But at the moment I'm finding it hard to go to swim squad, or my other group training sessions as I'm 'embarassed' for letting myself/coach down. Not saying that this is true, but that's where my head is at.

Perhaps I just need to raise my saddle 3mm?
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Injured leading into two marathons you planned to run in a month and continuing to manage injuries that haven't healed. Others can comment as I'm not a coach but have been coached racing IM a while now and planning to run two marathons in a month is pretty excessive. The list of resulting injuries are what I can call extreme.

You are quoting your age which is the same as me and every now and again I get calf issues. The first was by a coach pushing my run too hard leading into my first Kona. He is no longer my coach and I found a coach that understands training balance and recovery.

Let your body heal before pushing the training but my thoughts tell me you are still overtraining or your coach needs to rethink his methodology in regards to coaching you.
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:
more likely suspecting was down to the ibuprofen/paracetamol leading to digestion issues


Stacking NSAIDs to get through an IM-length race is questionable practice. (which I wouldn't comment on, except you asked). Both in short-term effects (which you apparently experienced some), as well as risk of long-term damage. If I were the coach I would have suggested either cancelling/postponing, or just turning the day into a fun walk-jog type deal without the drugs.

I think your suggested approach is good. Do more races and shorter races. Have more fun. Take the eggs out of the basket and spread them around.

I switched from triathlon to bike racing, and really enjoyed the aspect of bike racing of having far, far more races. If you suck at a race...next week there's another one. There are still "A" races but generally speaking you're not psychologically dumping nearly a thousand training hours into one day.
Last edited by: trail: Mar 16, 20 21:27
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [trail] [ In reply to ]
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This is exactly why I hardly do ironman races these days. Did my first ever ironman in 10.21 or 24, I forget which, but still blew massively in last 10kms. Then in my next 3 ironmans, had it shortened to a bike run but at half distance - whole lower body cramp on the run, next one resorted to walking after bad cramping issues, finished in just over 12 hours. Then had a break from ironman for 6 years, did Cairns in 2014, and knee ended up gaving up the ghost about 25kms in, had to walk it in in the rain, then had my best ironman in nz 2015, where i still had major issues but didn't blow up till the last 8kms or so, then did ironman again in 2018 but pulled out at the beginning of the run after feeling the worst i've ever felt in a race - wanted to pull out after lap 1 of the bike.

I enjoy the process of training and getting fit but I actually enjoy feeling like I have given it my all in a race also. Only feel like I have given it my all in my first ironman and my 2015 one, as I did not have cramps or injuries which destroyed my day. I did 70.3 in Taupo and actually kinda enjoyed the race. Had my best run, but probably cruised the bike too much.

I think if you want to enjoy races half ironman and up, you have to save quite a bit on the bike.

Olympic distance races are probably my favourite and my most favourite race was a crit style drafting race the first time they had it in Takapuna. Try some different distances. Ironman racing is not the be all and end all. I don't know how people do it year in year out.
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:
Hi, thanks for taking time to reply. In response to the above, I'm satisfied I didn't overbike either time, and that's obviously a coach conversation. The second lap I was flat as which given power data could not be related to going too hard, I'm more likely suspecting was down to the ibuprofen/paracetamol leading to digestion issues with the nutrition I'd practiced with plenty of times. Example 4 weeks earlier I'd done full distance course recce at race pace using nutrition in lot harder conditions (hotter and windier) and still felt better. Anyway, as below.....

I guess what I ddin't explain well is how do I 'process' deal with it now. Sure there are always lessons to learn to improve for next time, but that's 24 months away and I'm kinda struggling a bit with the here and now. All the eggs in that A-race basket, and it didn't pan out. So I'm feeling deflated and frustrated. Clearly wish there was a rewind button, but as there isn't, what's the mental play book from here? In some ways I'm kinda glad that the current events mean that all races of any sort are cancelled for forseable as it stops me trying to jump back into trainign for a standalone marathon, etc for 'redemption' and let my body recover. But at the moment I'm finding it hard to go to swim squad, or my other group training sessions as I'm 'embarassed' for letting myself/coach down. Not saying that this is true, but that's where my head is at.

Perhaps I just need to raise my saddle 3mm?

I think we've all been there don't that got the t-shirt. I trained hard for IMWA in 2018 ended up with 10.27, two flats (one a slow) and was gutted. 2019 I trained even harder, got better tyres, ticked all the boxes and felt ready. I was already eyeing up Kona accommodation.. I was expecting high 9s low 10s, which would have given me a KQ in 2018. Anyway weather was really warm and windy. Someone joked about a previous nightmarish race where he got a double-headwind and I remember thinking that surely would suck to get a double-headwind.... and that's what happened. I'm guessing some of us had it worse off than others depending where you were on the course. But for me what eventuated was I overcooked the bike, simply because I rode hard with the headwind, expecting the tailwind and some relief and a chance to get my HR down, but it never came. And it got hot, 40C/104F out on the roads.

Race was over before I hit T2 and I was going to record my first DNF, I felt sick as a dog and beyond disappointed, gutted. 4 months of flogging myself gone. Anyway a friend persuaded me to run 1 lap (4 laps), I walked most of it as I felt ill and actually quite depressed. Never felt so desperate to DNF. I walk/ran the 2nd lap and after that decided to finish.

I ended up really stoked that I did finish. So hard to do when you feel sick and utterly deflated. Afterwards there was disappointment, but also I felt pleased I completed it and an acceptance that this is what racing is all about. Dealing with poor performances, adversity, disappointment, letting people down etc finding some positives in what was overall a very negative experience. I learned a shitload in that race and learned a shitload about myself. It would have been easy to let the disappointment eat me up.

That said I think I'm done with Ironman for the next couple of years. I don't feel burnt out, but I do feel like I need a break, so at the moment I'm doing what I want, mostly running and swimming. And although I'm gutted for my mates that can't race now, I'm glad the races have been cancelled for me, it forces me to have a rest.
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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You're probably over thinking this and putting it perspective helps.

I had the worst IM in my life this year time wise. Its over 100 degrees and I thought I was going to die on the run. I was mad, disappointed, beat down and didn't look at the results until the next day. I came in 27th in my age group.....still my worst ever but way better than how I felt about it at the time. Once I pulled my head out a** and looked at how everyone else did too....everybody sucked that day. We all have expectations but its a race and some are over all faster or slower. Take a look at the race itself and figure out your place in it. It helps.
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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My 2 cents...

I was in a similar boat. About 2 months before first IM I hurt my back. I don't have back issues normally, I hadn't had any issues with my back in 20 years. Just one of those things.

In the end my IM was mostly over on the start of the 2nd loop of the bike. I sat up and just enjoyed my time out there. High fived everyone. Cheered people on. Talked with people on the bike and run. It was still fun, but it wasn't the day I was aiming for.

To get over it, I embraced process goals. Instead of targeting a specific race and time, I would target goals leading up to it (get all my workouts in this week, get 8 hours of sleep per night or during workouts to keep a specific HR for a specific time, or a specific pace, etc.). In the end, your results follow your preparedness so I focused on goals that would help me prepare, and then see where the chips fall. It's worked out fairly well, and I was on track for my next event....which was just cancelled. Process goals keep me motivated, but they aren't for everyone.
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Durhamskier] [ In reply to ]
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All good stuff and good points. Part of the issue is that 'perspective' term that keeps cropping up. Firstly, by definition perspective does vary depending on your view point, and I'm trying to work out how to move my view. The other bit, and if we're honest this is a bit broader that me today, the nature of the sport is such that it does require a fair part of mental training to deliberately exclude and distort what any well adjusted normal member of society would consider reasonable. Both in terms of the time/money we spend on this, part of the training is to lose perspective. 1% of the population think running a marathon is possible / worthwhile. We then go and add a daft warmup on the front.

i think the worst thing for me was that the conditions on race day were possibly as close to perfect as you would ever see on that course. If it had been grim conditions and everyone else had been an hour slower, and i was 2.5 slower I think that wouldn't have been too bad. But pretty much everyone else had great days (of those I know, of course others suffered out there too).

But continued thanks.

As a side bar to this discussion, saw physio last night. We're into 6 weeks of full recovery, no running, drop down a lane swim squad, down a group with the cycle group, then gradual return to walk/run after that to get on top of those injuries I've been managing. Hard to phrase correctly, but the cancellation of all the events does take all the pressure I'd put on myself to return quickly and provides that space for a 100% recovery.
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Duncan74 wrote:
I'm trying to get my head around how to approach future A races. With two underperformances now, I'm building a monkey on my own back to make me doubt myself.


Talk to someone who specializes in working with athletes who need some mental coaching. And no that does not mean your coach. Lots of us are really good at coaching a lot of aspects, including the mental aspect. The reality is working with a sports psych on this issue is the best way to conquer it.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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Wanna know what’s funny?

I started to enjoy racing much more when:
- I started racing sprints (which were almost every weekend, and no real taper. Just a race to go really hard, before a long slow run thereafter)
- stopped attaching a number to my success. I cycle only now (no time for Tri atm) and do it because I want to have fun. Yes I want to win races, and yes I still get pissed at myself when I screw up ... but I don’t “feel” much better after winning than I do with a pack finish. After both, I still go home and play w my kids... eat dinner .. get up and train the next day

Most people tell me I’m crazy, but I only race for a bit of fun. I train because i love it.

I’d think really deep about why you want a specific result. 10.30 or 11.30 doesn’t matter, and you could probably do 9.30 if you didn’t have the same life commitments outside of training. But again, why do you really care? I hope that when you can answer that honestly, you can truly enjoy the journey
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Re: Dealing with under-performing in A race. Mental processing approach [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
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You don’t do it for five minutes on some AG IM results sheet no one will ever read. You focus on it, but it’s meaningless.

You do it because every once in a while you realize you’re in mile 14 of some run, and you’re floating above churning legs effortlessly driving the pavement away beneath you. Or you crest a hill and have the legs to accelerate the pedals into the downhill when you used to just be gasping to get to the top. If that’s still happening you’re doing great. Focus on that. Comparing times year over year isn’t reasonable, every day it’s a different course.
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