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Daniela going after the IM distance world record?
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I'm looking at Daniela's races this year - Texas then Austria, and I am thinking she's going after Chrissie's 8:18. It's going to be great to see what she does but if she rides within 15 minutes of Starky in Texas again - look out!

Going to be a fun year to see what she does with a big Kona focus plus how the other women react. Looking forward to watching her race in Oceanside...

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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A better record would be seeing her win an Ironman outright.

Not just the women’s. But the guys.

I totally think it’s possible if the let the pros start together.

Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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Going to be an interesting season for sure! She doesn't have anything else to prove at Kona, so this is awesome she is going after some other races and goals. And yes, would be great to see an outright win :D

Carson Christen
Sport Scientist / Coach
Torden Multisport
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [PJC] [ In reply to ]
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PJC wrote:
A better record would be seeing her win an Ironman outright.

Not just the women’s. But the guys.

I totally think it’s possible if the let the pros start together.

It would be fascinating to see. To break it down:

-hang with the main swim pack
-use 10m draft to advantage
-run 2:50 against a field with no Uber-runner

Not impossible...

Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [drm437] [ In reply to ]
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drm437 wrote:
PJC wrote:
A better record would be seeing her win an Ironman outright.

Not just the women’s. But the guys.

I totally think it’s possible if the let the pros start together.


It would be fascinating to see. To break it down:

-hang with the main swim pack
-use 10m draft to advantage
-run 2:50 against a field with no Uber-runner

Not impossible...

The little I no about women's distance performance has me agreeing with you.

Big question back to STers: Why have two purses for Ironman distances if we have women capable of winning or podium? Do let them start together.

Women can probably get as much or more commercial support than men these days in this "you go girl world".

I'm for developing all athletes regardless of gender and don't understand the favoritism based on gender. Or lack of it lol.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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Because Daniela does not even come close to proving that female triathletes are as fast as men and forcing women to fight against men for prize money would put them at a huge disadvantage??

One woman in history that some people guess might be able to beat a mediocre pro men's field doesn't mean all the sudden there is no need for a women's race.

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www.VeloVetta.com
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Last edited by: RowToTri: Mar 11, 19 7:17
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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I remember the chaos that broke on ST when she came within the 10% gender difference at some low level race. Slowtwitch would literally break if she won an IM outright.

Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching



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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [chrica04] [ In reply to ]
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With good weather at either Texas or Austria - more than the overall win - I suspect 8 hours could be at least slightly possible...

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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dfru wrote:
I'm looking at Daniela's races this year - Texas then Austria, and I am thinking she's going after Chrissie's 8:18. It's going to be great to see what she does but if she rides within 15 minutes of Starky in Texas again - look out!

Going to be a fun year to see what she does with a big Kona focus plus how the other women react. Looking forward to watching her race in Oceanside...

Daniela doesn't go after records, she just gets them.
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [Brandes] [ In reply to ]
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Brandes wrote:
I remember the chaos that broke on ST when she came within the 10% gender difference at some low level race. Slowtwitch would literally break if she won an IM outright.

I think it would be good for the sport if she won an IM against pro men. It would catch a lot of press attention outside the usual channels. I think that would go much, much further to bring women into the sport than an olympic gold by an American woman ever did.
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
dfru wrote:
I'm looking at Daniela's races this year - Texas then Austria, and I am thinking she's going after Chrissie's 8:18. It's going to be great to see what she does but if she rides within 15 minutes of Starky in Texas again - look out!

Going to be a fun year to see what she does with a big Kona focus plus how the other women react. Looking forward to watching her race in Oceanside...


Daniela doesn't go after records, she just gets them.

Well, she actually stated she was going for it in Roth 2017 prior - then all crap hit the fan and she was only able to complete it. I get what you are saying though - but she has two races that if she gets her best performance out - could result in world best times.

There is some semantics in the wording, but Daniela has talked about times and being within 30 minutes of the men. This would result in records. She's trying to get the best out of herself for sure - but being sub 8:10 first for the women, or better - would be incredible!

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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On a fast bike course, without any uber-bikers pulling the faster male runners down the road so that she could just hold her own power and not deal with surges and other tomfoolery. Add in a pair of Vaporfly 5% and she could cruise to a W.
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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I am excited to see Ryf race again in North America as she is a once in a generation athlete. However, any "Ironman World Record" performance in my opinion is of little value without manipulating the truth. The truth is you can only really compare identical course records and even that has a big caveat, race day weather conditions. For example, if we look at a Kona and Carfrae's results. Carfrae's 2011, 2013 & 2014 Kona performances were all incredible, but all were slower than her 2018 Kona race. Indeed, any record set in Kona 2018, should have a hug asterisk next to them, not because they were bad performances, but because the 2018 Kona course conditions were so incredibly easy compared to any previous Kona year, even the easier years, it is almost as if it was a different race course.

If Ryf wants to have an iron distance record she'd be better off doing it at Roth so it is more comparable to Chrissie's race, but again even slight course changes and weather conditions can make comparing the actual performance between the two.
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [Spandexboy] [ In reply to ]
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I totally get what you are saying. Ultimately, I think that the more fun idea is seeing if she can get within 30 minutes of the men, 11which would on either course on a fast day at least get her within spitting distance of the 8 hour mark. If I remember correctly, when Chrissie went 8:18 Andreas Raelert went 7:41, so about 37 minutes. That's also a pretty good representation of things - Chrissie was 4th overall with that race I believe? I'm just writing, not checking my facts right now! HA!

Kona 2018 was special, it would be really interesting to see a big huge wind year and a winning time in the 8:40s for the men again - you just never know what you are going to get!

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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Ryf is an outlier--like Chrissie-- and I don't think getting to within 30 minutes of the winner at Texas is that big of a deal as there are too many legal drafting or otherwise that increase the speeds at this event and thus reduce times. Not a shot at her, but the Ironman Texas course and Ironman's race to the bottom. In addition, what males are racing and how the male group races will significantly affect how close she gets. When you compare Ryf--hands down the current best female long course triathlete by far--to the current consistently best male long course triathlete--Jan Frodeno--she is in the 40-45 minute range, not the thirty minute range. Ryf also has a massive advantage over the male pro athletes in that she gets to ride her own race whereas the men are racing each other to the detriment of their overall and bike and run times.

That said, I love and hate Ryf's dominance and wish we could have seen Chrissie and her race each other. I think the only female athlete that could challenge her right now is fellow swiss triathlete Nicola Spirig and she has the talent and skills to challenge Ryfs dominance. Spirig won the only Ironman she entered and Apparently will not be pursuing an iron distance triathlon racing career.

Ryf is an outstanding athlete, but I think she is on par, or maybe even not quite as good as Chrissie. Chrissie was conistently a much better runner than Ryf, despite Ryf being a much more trained athlete with many many more years of triathlon experience than Chrissie. Ryf while a stronger cyclist was not massively stronger then Chrissie. These races are probably the best comparison of the two, as conditions on both days were apparently similar according to reliable sources and the course was the same as far as I can tell.

2011 Roth vs. 2016 Roth

Andreas Raelert
0:46:18 4:11:43 2:40:52 7:41:33

Chrissie Wellington
0:49:49 4:40:39 2:44:35 8:18:13

Vs.

Jan Frodeno
0:45:22 4:08:07 2:39:18 7:35:39

Daniela Ryf
0:49:10 4:31:29 2:57:40 8:22:04

Intetesting to note that Sebi Kienle was 2nd in 2011 with 7:57 and Dr. Joe Skipper was 2nd in 2016 with a 7:56 and a 2:38 run!
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
Because Daniela does not even come close to proving that female triathletes are as fast as men and forcing women to fight against men for prize money would put them at a huge disadvantage??

One woman in history that some people guess might be able to beat a mediocre pro men's field doesn't mean all the sudden there is no need for a women's race.

When you look at women's total compensation (including sponsor $$$), there might be situations where women are making as much or more than men.

If the women started with the men, the women's times could even be faster than they are today. Why handicap them?

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [IT] [ In reply to ]
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If the women started with the men, the women's times could even be faster than they are today. Why handicap them?


They already tried this, and it was pretty universal that it was unfair to the women. Having the first one or few women being able to race with the very back of the mens pro pack, or the guys having an off day, was a big disadvantage to the rest of the women field. And those guys would just cause many of the women to get caught up in dicey situations, where they were more apt to get penalties. So it was changed to what it is now, a separate start so that most of the swim/ride is done with just the ladies around. There is not much mixing of the back.blown up men pros and elite AG men until the run, which ends up being pretty benign as far as getting advantages.


And Ryf is no where near the top men in this sport, on her best day with a like mens field, she would struggle for top 20. Some of you are overlaying her times from Kona last year over other years times. Remember the winning man went 7;52, rode 4;09, and ran low 2;40's. She was further away from the mens winner than other women in the past, its all relative people..
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [drm437] [ In reply to ]
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drm437 wrote:
PJC wrote:
A better record would be seeing her win an Ironman outright.

Not just the women’s. But the guys.

I totally think it’s possible if the let the pros start together.


It would be fascinating to see. To break it down:

-hang with the main swim pack
-use 10m draft to advantage
-run 2:50 against a field with no Uber-runner

Not impossible...

If she did Louisville or Barcelona she could do it. But pretty much wont happen there as Kona is also on.

Possible at Busselton

Rhymenocerus wrote:
I think everyone should consult ST before they do anything.
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [Spandexboy] [ In reply to ]
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Spandexboy wrote:
Ryf is an outlier--like Chrissie-- and I don't think getting to within 30 minutes of the winner at Texas is that big of a deal as there are too many legal drafting or otherwise that increase the speeds at this event and thus reduce times. Not a shot at her, but the Ironman Texas course and Ironman's race to the bottom. In addition, what males are racing and how the male group races will significantly affect how close she gets. When you compare Ryf--hands down the current best female long course triathlete by far--to the current consistently best male long course triathlete--Jan Frodeno--she is in the 40-45 minute range, not the thirty minute range. Ryf also has a massive advantage over the male pro athletes in that she gets to ride her own race whereas the men are racing each other to the detriment of their overall and bike and run times.

That said, I love and hate Ryf's dominance and wish we could have seen Chrissie and her race each other. I think the only female athlete that could challenge her right now is fellow swiss triathlete Nicola Spirig and she has the talent and skills to challenge Ryfs dominance. Spirig won the only Ironman she entered and Apparently will not be pursuing an iron distance triathlon racing career.

Ryf is an outstanding athlete, but I think she is on par, or maybe even not quite as good as Chrissie. Chrissie was conistently a much better runner than Ryf, despite Ryf being a much more trained athlete with many many more years of triathlon experience than Chrissie. Ryf while a stronger cyclist was not massively stronger then Chrissie. These races are probably the best comparison of the two, as conditions on both days were apparently similar according to reliable sources and the course was the same as far as I can tell.

2011 Roth vs. 2016 Roth

Andreas Raelert
0:46:18 4:11:43 2:40:52 7:41:33

Chrissie Wellington
0:49:49 4:40:39 2:44:35 8:18:13

Vs.

Jan Frodeno
0:45:22 4:08:07 2:39:18 7:35:39

Daniela Ryf
0:49:10 4:31:29 2:57:40 8:22:04

Intetesting to note that Sebi Kienle was 2nd in 2011 with 7:57 and Dr. Joe Skipper was 2nd in 2016 with a 7:56 and a 2:38 run!

Don't take this the wrong way - 2016 is a terrible comparison. Daniela was tapered for Frankfurt - 2 weeks earlier - which she dropped out with hypothermia, and then raced Roth, knowing she was going to have to race Switzerland the next week. I don't think it's a great comparison to Chrissie looking to beat her world record and at the prime of her racing.

Also - Frankfurt Daniela was only 38 down to Frodo who was trying to prove a point to Lange, while in Hawaii with a good 5 minutes lost to the jellyfish - she was only 34 down to the two time Kona champ.

Last year Matt Hanson went 7:39 - yeah yeah about Texas, but if she's 25 back - that's getting VERY close to 8 hours. THAT gets very interesting. Seeing 7:5X:XX from a woman would be INCREDIBLE.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
If the women started with the men, the women's times could even be faster than they are today. Why handicap them?


They already tried this, and it was pretty universal that it was unfair to the women. Having the first one or few women being able to race with the very back of the mens pro pack, or the guys having an off day, was a big disadvantage to the rest of the women field. And those guys would just cause many of the women to get caught up in dicey situations, where they were more apt to get penalties. So it was changed to what it is now, a separate start so that most of the swim/ride is done with just the ladies around. There is not much mixing of the back.blown up men pros and elite AG men until the run, which ends up being pretty benign as far as getting advantages.


And Ryf is no where near the top men in this sport, on her best day with a like mens field, she would struggle for top 20. Some of you are overlaying her times from Kona last year over other years times. Remember the winning man went 7;52, rode 4;09, and ran low 2;40's. She was further away from the mens winner than other women in the past, its all relative people..



Chrissie was 34 minutes - Natascha 38 once - Paula 30 in 1988 - Daniela 34 last year with the jellyfish - I think Patrick Lange doing what he did was more impressive than the 1988 men's winner - although Paula's race that year was incredible.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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I highly doubt Daniela held anything back at Roth 2016, given her 8:22 performance. Her taper for Frankfurt DNF would probably have had zero effect and maybe enhanced her Roth performance. A hard swim and bike would not tire a pwraon of her calibre at Roth. Daniela could have walked Switzerland and qualified for Kona as she was the reigning Kona champ and only had to validate.

I disagree about Frodeno and Lange at Frankfurt last year, Lange was probably going very hard on the bike and Frodo was making sure it was hard enough that Lange didn't get a free ride and then Frodo crushed Lange with ease on the run. Frodo is a much better biker in Frankfurt than he did last year which is why Ryf was so close to them Lange and Nillson are not even close in terms of biking ability to Frodo.

Lange is a great athlete and an incredible runner, particularly in Kona. Lange, however, clearly benefits from the unique bike situation in Kona more than others. In my opinion Lange is over rated, because he has won in Kona where his very svelt build and the unique bike situation of huge packs combined with a 10m draft zone give him a big advantage. Mark my words if he has to race a 20m draft zone and/or in big winds in Kona, he'll be lucky to finish top 5, maybe not even top 10 in Kona.
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [Spandexboy] [ In reply to ]
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Even if Daniela raced two weeks after her tapered race all out - she's a significantly more well rounded athlete right now than she was then. And the info out of her camp was illness and not being ready to run a hard marathon at that stage - I know - you probably won't believe a word Sutton says on it...but developmentally she's far superior to the athlete she was in 2016.

I'll give you Frodeno soft pedalling the bike - he had already destroyed him swim/bike in Kraichgau (sp) and might have been proving a point. And no, Lange will not win on a big wind year - but he's got the most reliable marathon and bikes fast enough that someone needs to step up their running - after a big bike - in order to beat him.

Lange to Ryf in Frankfurt - ironically - was 29 minutes - approx the same in Kona if you include a little swim adjustment.

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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Texas is not IM distance. 110 mile bike...
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Re: Daniela going after the IM distance world record? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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Recognized IM distance record. Map for this year says 112. Maybe they made the adjustment?

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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