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DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing
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https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/02/challenges-ahead-zwift-esports.html


I think it's a pretty spot on analysis by Ray. I think there is definitely a demand for this, and enough money involved that many of these problems can be solved.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [MRid] [ In reply to ]
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MRid wrote:
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/02/challenges-ahead-zwift-esports.html


I think it's a pretty spot on analysis by Ray. I think there is definitely a demand for this, and enough money involved that many of these problems can be solved.

Fixed it for you (the link, that is...it's not hard to embed ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [MRid] [ In reply to ]
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I still think all this Zwift and similar stuff is a huge pile of crap.

NO
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [MRid] [ In reply to ]
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I must be a luddite, because I literally just DO NOT GET spectator eSports---and I HATE that term "eSports"...its a friggin video game damnit, not a friggin' Sport!

Actually, I don't get video game spectating at all.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Alabama Viking] [ In reply to ]
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And yet the woman who won a zwift/sis? race won more by an order of magnitude than World Tour women win.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:

...it's not hard to embed ;-)

No...but, it would be nice if the "advanced editor" could be as clever as the "basic editor" for handling embedding. Seems kinda ironic to have to switch to the basic editor to get a "smart" feature.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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I don't watch eSports at all. But I've watched every KISS Super League race thus far live, and have enjoyed it immensely. To me it feels more like watching a race then watching a video game. It's still got some kinks they need to work out, but overall I've enjoyed the experience.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [MRid] [ In reply to ]
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It's not a race because as Ray pointed out, very clearly, there's no uniformity. I can call Lance Armstrong and have him come over and win that 'race' for me. No one would know.
Yes, there's surely cheating in all other competitions, but hey, at least I saw Gert Jan Theunisse ride up Mt Ventoux himself.

NO
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Alabama Viking] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah we get it, you don't like Zwift.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [MRid] [ In reply to ]
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This thread is clearly full of people who don't understand eSports or the growing demand for them.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Alabama Viking] [ In reply to ]
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They'll figure that part out.

Eventually all the "money" races will have some type of specific uniformity while the rest of the masses can do the daily/weekly "races" on whatever trainer/setup they want and if they 'game' the sytem, they game it. But with big money on the line, we'll see much more stringent uniformity with rules/regulations than just "any trainer" will do, etc.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Alabama Viking] [ In reply to ]
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All your W/kg are belong to us.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
They'll figure that part out.

Eventually all the "money" races will have some type of specific uniformity while the rest of the masses can do the daily/weekly "races" on whatever trainer/setup they want and if they 'game' the sytem, they game it. But with big money on the line, we'll see much more stringent uniformity with rules/regulations than just "any trainer" will do, etc.

Yep, this is what I think too.

I can also see a scenario where Zwift will allow race organizers to limit entrees to their races based on what trainer/powermeter they have. There can definitely be checks put in place. Won't necessarily even it out totally, but it can make the playing field a bit more fair at the community race level. Zwift has to decide if they want to oppose restrictions on races, right now them seem opposed to the idea.

I can also see sponsored on-site (multiple site) race series, much like indoor triathlons, sponsored by a fitness company or bike company or something. There are ways to make bigger events fairer and still open to more than just pros.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [MRid] [ In reply to ]
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Recurring problem in esports that cheating is somehow "easy", in zwift it is probably easier than in normal "esports" as you can hack SO MANY THINGS. But lets see, the UI needs to get fixed before i can really follow it.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
Tom A. wrote:

...it's not hard to embed ;-)


No...but, it would be nice if the "advanced editor" could be as clever as the "basic editor" for handling embedding. Seems kinda ironic to have to switch to the basic editor to get a "smart" feature.

But I DID do it in the advanced editor. Just highlighted the text, hit Ctrl-C (to copy the URL), clicked the little chain-link symbol in bar above the text window, and then pasted the URL into the "create link" pop-up window. Bing, bang, boom...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [MRid] [ In reply to ]
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MRid wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
They'll figure that part out.

Eventually all the "money" races will have some type of specific uniformity while the rest of the masses can do the daily/weekly "races" on whatever trainer/setup they want and if they 'game' the sytem, they game it. But with big money on the line, we'll see much more stringent uniformity with rules/regulations than just "any trainer" will do, etc.


Yep, this is what I think too.

I can also see a scenario where Zwift will allow race organizers to limit entrees to their races based on what trainer/powermeter they have. There can definitely be checks put in place. Won't necessarily even it out totally, but it can make the playing field a bit more fair at the community race level. Zwift has to decide if they want to oppose restrictions on races, right now them seem opposed to the idea.

I can also see sponsored on-site (multiple site) race series, much like indoor triathlons, sponsored by a fitness company or bike company or something. There are ways to make bigger events fairer and still open to more than just pros.

I think it would be a great platform for fundraising. Have an event where people can form teams and race with spectators betting on the outcome. Profits to the charity, winners walk out with the potential for a larger charitable donation.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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I was a semi pro gamer when Esports was just being talked about. It was a neat way for people that want to stay at home and practice with their group of friends before heading out to the local LAN center. The one thing about ZWIFT has against them is that a significant number of potential competitors live in apartments and condos - noise is an issue. Computer ESPORTS doesn't have the noise issue that trainers do.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Alabama Viking] [ In reply to ]
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Organized events where all participants (1) use the same model of trainer and all are verified/calibrated as part of the event and (2) weigh in before the event are the only way to have a "legit" race.

Outside that, there is just too much that can skew the results. I'm sure there is a lot of cheating/fudging/Hope Hicks white lies/willful ignorance at the top of the food chain among the top racers, but even more than that there is a TON of true ignorance (I use that term in its literal sense, not as a pejorative regarding intellect or character) among the Zwift masses regarding power numbers. There seem to be a lot of Zwift/trainer users who have no experience with an accurate PM on a bike outside IRL so that they know what, e.g., a "real" 300W feels like. I recently saw a female rider who was excited about her recent FTP increase to ~4.5W/kg. I then clicked her FB profile and she was approx 50-60 years old, a grandmother, and looked approximately 5'6" 175lbs and not athletic.

Just to be clear, I think it is awesome that she is on the bike getting in good healthy exercise, and I'm not body shaming here. What I am saying is that there is no way that this particular individual is 4.5W/kg. But she absolutely thinks she is, she truly believes she is, because that is what her trainer is telling her and she has no frame of reference to know that her numbers are not accurate.

Or maybe she is just the Zion Williamson of cycling, a generational freak who can do things no human with her body composition should be able to do. If that's the case, there seem to be a LOT of Zions on Zwift.

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
Last edited by: refthimos: Feb 20, 19 17:27
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
Tom_hampton wrote:
Tom A. wrote:

...it's not hard to embed ;-)


No...but, it would be nice if the "advanced editor" could be as clever as the "basic editor" for handling embedding. Seems kinda ironic to have to switch to the basic editor to get a "smart" feature.


But I DID do it in the advanced editor. Just highlighted the text, hit Ctrl-C (to copy the URL), clicked the little chain-link symbol in bar above the text window, and then pasted the URL into the "create link" pop-up window. Bing, bang, boom...

Like the original poster I have to use the basic editor to insert links. The chain link symbol is greyed out in the advanced editor.
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
Organized events where all participants (1) use the same model of trainer and all are verified/calibrated as part of the event and (2) weigh in before the event are the only way to have a "legit" race.

At which point I seriously question the mental capacities of those excitedly watching this race.
Just put a Super League triathlon race up as comparison.

Slowman says he's fascinated by human powered movement. I would think most of us are. So why is NOT moving so popular?!

NO
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Alabama Viking] [ In reply to ]
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You know what, I'm going on a field research trip. Watch people on the fit bikes at Planet Fitness. Let's see if they can convince me it's awesome to look at them.

NO
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Alabama Viking] [ In reply to ]
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Alabama Viking wrote:
At which point I seriously question the mental capacities of those excitedly watching this race.
Just put a Super League triathlon race up as comparison.

Slowman says he's fascinated by human powered movement. I would think most of us are. So why is NOT moving so popular?!

If we all had the same tastes, whether in food, bikes, or entertainment, the world would be a very dull place.

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
Alabama Viking wrote:
At which point I seriously question the mental capacities of those excitedly watching this race.
Just put a Super League triathlon race up as comparison.

Slowman says he's fascinated by human powered movement. I would think most of us are. So why is NOT moving so popular?!

If we all had the same tastes, whether in food, bikes, or entertainment, the world would be a very dull place.

Couldn't agree more with that statement.
But I'm still waiting for any arguments why I should have a taste of this.
(And just to be clear: that is not directed at you)

NO
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Alabama Viking] [ In reply to ]
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Alabama Viking wrote:

But I'm still waiting for any arguments why I should have a taste of this.
(And just to be clear: that is not directed at you)


I don't think you should. You should probably dismiss it entirely and focus your attention on pursuits which interest you.
Last edited by: trail: Feb 20, 19 17:54
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Re: DC Rainmaker on Zwift Racing [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
I must be a luddite, because I literally just DO NOT GET spectator eSports---and I HATE that term "eSports"...its a friggin video game damnit, not a friggin' Sport!

Actually, I don't get video game spectating at all.

I like zwift.. I use zwift.. but I agree with Tom
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