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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [de360] [ In reply to ]
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de360 wrote:
Mixed reaction as to who's 'really' at fault here.
I was surprised at the number of people who were 'against' the triathlete.
I'm not sure I would have done anything different?!

(Article, Video & Comments)


I'm not sure why this is surprising or controversial in any way.

The "apparent facts" based on the video footage:

Open course
Car obviously slowing in front
Place of business ahead on the right
Cyclists attempts to pass on the right
Car fails to signal, but makes a legal right hand turn into a place of business
Cyclist that put self in a bad position gets hit

Yes, the driver should have signalled. But that's the only thing (s)he did wrong. A glance in the rear/side view mirror prior to the turn would have shown the athlete in close proximity behind the vehicle - there was no way to anticipate that the rider would attempt to squeeze the gap and pass on the right.

That athlete is lucky he didn't get hurt.


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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [ranger5oh] [ In reply to ]
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ranger5oh wrote:
p2k2001 wrote:
Passing on the right is an accident waiting to happen. On a positive note, it was nice to see a couple competitors stop at the scene.


Hold the phone... if the car was turning left, would it have been ok for the cyclist to pass right? My guess is, had that car turned left, and the cyclist didnt get hit, and the GoPro video was posted, noone woulda squawked.

That's because it's perfectly legitimate for a legal road user to pass another road user on the right if the othe road user is making a left turn, and the passing road user stays on the road to do so. It's one of the couple of exceptions to the "no passing on the right" law (another being in stop-and-go traffic on a multi-lane road).

Please tell me you just got your learner's permit.

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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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Khai wrote:
Cyclist that put self in a bad position hits truck

Fixed it for you.

I'm competing against my current fitness level, and planning to kick my a**!
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Don't know about washington but in NY state is is 100% illegal to enter a shoulder to pass on the right. A bike is a vehicle in the law's eye so it's also 100% illegal for a bike to pass on the right on a shoulder. A shoulder is not a bike lane (which is a lane of travel and you can pass on the right in it)
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I think the car may have signaled. It's hard to tell, but it looks like the right brake light is flashing.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [npage148] [ In reply to ]
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npage148 wrote:
Don't know about washington but in NY state is is 100% illegal to enter a shoulder to pass on the right. A bike is a vehicle in the law's eye so it's also 100% illegal for a bike to pass on the right on a shoulder. A shoulder is not a bike lane (which is a lane of travel and you can pass on the right in it)

I wouldn't put that to the test:

Quote:
You may pass a vehicle on the right only in the situations listed below, and only if you can do so safely. You may not drive on or across the shoulder or edge line of the road unless a sign permits it.

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/...chapter06-manual.htm

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [de360] [ In reply to ]
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I'm an avid cyclist and avid hater of cell phone talkin SUV drivers. I 99% of the time error on the side of the cyclist, but in this case I think the cyclist showed 0% common sense (passing a car on the right, with brake lights on, cyclist not slowing down, inattentive to surrounding aka business to the right). I get that it is a race and that athletes think they own everything on raceday but come on that is a 4000 pound vehicle and he/she showed no respect for the fact that it could kill him in less than a second and that his little carbon TT bike would not even scratch the bumper. He is lucky he didn't get his head ran over by the SUV.
Last edited by: JimmyDeuce: Sep 7, 11 11:33
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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You are 100% correct! We are invisible to traffic even with bright clothes, blinky lights, and obvious race going on. If we as cyclist would ride like we are invisible maybe we wouldn't have to read about cyclist getting killed everyday.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [packetloss] [ In reply to ]
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Like I said, if you are going to allow cars on a race course, then it is up to them to avoid the cyclists.Otherwise i'll start taking some offers to block up competitors for the next race.

One could equally say that if you are going to allow triathletes to race on an open road, it is up to them to obey all traffic laws. Wait! What? That sounds exactly what I've been told everytime I've raced on an open course.

You certainly can't expect a racer to slow down or stop to avoid cars during a race.

Yes, you can. On an open course, both competitors and motorists have an equal obligation.

You can't expect to have a meaningful race if cars are allowed to interfere with cyclists

I'm not aware of any race where cars are allowed to interfere with cyclists. But cars aren't allowed to interefere with cyclists when it's not a race either.

Open course races are a necessary reality. Without them, permits are not granted. That there may be some traffic direction and course marshalling on an open course doesn't relieve triathletes of responsibility on an open course. And if that means there are occasions where safety and traffic laws trump strategy and competitive drive, then so be it.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Hubblesmith] [ In reply to ]
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Hubblesmith wrote:
The year I participated in this race, the director made specific mention in the pre-race briefing that the roads were open to traffic and that we were to follow all traffic rules, except for at intersections where uniformed officers were directing traffic.

I've heard the same speach at every open course race I've done.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [matto] [ In reply to ]
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matto wrote:
The cyclist was in a no win situation.

If he had passed on the left he would have needed to cross the double yellow, which is not only illegal but can get you a penalty. If he had been hit by a car head on people would have said he's a darwin award candidate.

His only safe choice was to slow down and stay behind the car until it turned.

Actually, the safer choice is to stick with triathlons that have closed courses.

Those all sound like the same decisions a triathlete must make on a crowded course if he doesn't want to get caught drafting, blocking, etc.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [JimmyDeuce] [ In reply to ]
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JimmyDeuce wrote:
but come on that is a 4000 pound vehicle


actually 9000 pound vehicle. especially with those wheels.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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Robert wrote:
Not true, if the biker had an expectation that no right hand turns by vehicles would be allowed into businesses. If I were on the jury, I'd hammer that driver. He's too stupid to be driving.....

-Robert

I'm really sorry that you were hurt in several auto/cyclist accidents, but you're clearly biased (as you admitted) and are letting that blind your opinion here. What on earth about the known facts of this situation would give the cyclist a REASONABLE expectation that vehicles wouldn't be allowed to make right hand turns into business?
I am all for holding cars responsible for their actions and the injuries caused, however, but the driver but for failing to signal and failing to use better judgment and stay off a race course (which apparently was left open to traffic) did nothing wrong. I've been in races where cars were whizzing by me and while I knew they were traveling too fast, it didn't mean they would be at fault if I veered into their lane. The cyclist clearly failed to take responsible, evasive maneuvers to avoid a collision and instead as the video showed kept hammering away as he passed on the right. Fault is clear (and it should be noted that I am a former personal injury attorney who is always looking to hold someone responsible for the injuries they cause).
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [ranger5oh] [ In reply to ]
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I don't believe anyone has alluded to a left blinker in this particular video.


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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [de360] [ In reply to ]
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Our requirements to obtain a drivers license and also keep a drivers license are not stringent enough.

Cyclists are not defensive enough.

Just another example of human stupidity.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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In California if you are riding in the bike lane "I believe you have the right of way" meaning a car should look before turning into a drive way or making a right hand turn.....anyway drivers Ed 101 LOOK BEFORE TURNING. Passing on the right as far as I'm aware is for cars not bikes in a bike lane. I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will let me know.

Was it the smartest move by the cyclist NO but that does not make it his fault. There were cones and other racers on the road, the person driving the car should of been paying attention.


Train safe & smart
Bob

Last edited by: Longboarder: Sep 7, 11 13:52
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Some state do allow passing on the right in the shoulder area. This seemed odd to me when I moved to Delaware as other places this was not allowed, but Delaware does allow you to pass left turning vehicles on the shoulder. That means you have to be careful as a cyclist as you aproach a car turning left. Another vehicle may pass you and immediately move into the shoulder in front of you and may slow down. It is always good to know what is around and what people might do.

The other thing people do here that is not legal, but most do it is to pass on the right a string of cars slowed down/stopped waiting for a light. They use the right shoulder and make a right hand turn, but they pull in hundreds of feet before the right turn lane starts. You have to watch for that too.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [JimmyDeuce] [ In reply to ]
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JimmyDeuce wrote:
You are 100% correct! We are invisible to traffic even with bright clothes, blinky lights, and obvious race going on. If we as cyclist would ride like we are invisible maybe we wouldn't have to read about cyclist getting killed everyday.

I just wanted the above to be repeated.

I don't think the video (as posted) shows enough. Where is the cyclist looking? Did the truck just recently pass him? How far away is the truck at the "start" of the video (GoPro wide angle can make things look much further away than they are)? Was a blinker used?

I know that cars will pass a cyclist, then immediately make a right turn into or directly in front of the cyclist. This happens to me all the time (so I'm ready for it). Someone who isn't experienced in open road riding may not expect someone to give him the "right hook". It's a messed up situation.

Be careful!

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Longboarder] [ In reply to ]
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Longboarder wrote:
In California if you are riding in the bike lane "I beleve you have the right of way" meaning a car should look before turning into a drive way or making a right hand turn.....anyway drivers Ed 101 LOOK BEFORE TURNING. Passing on the right as far as I'm aware is for cars not bikes in a bike lane. I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will let me know.

1. I'm not sure that was a bike lane -- a solid white line, in itself, does not make it so.

2. Even if it was a bike lane, the cyclist was not riding in it. It wasn't until the last second, when he attempted to past, that he moved into the "lane."

I'd say both the motorist and the cyclist share fault.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [patf] [ In reply to ]
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I don't see the car signaling the turn. Also, it would appear there were at least 3 other cyclists riding along the stretch of road so the car should have been looking out for cyclists before making that turn.

It also happened in the span of 2 seconds. If the cyclist is even going as slow as 20, that is just not enough time to hit the brakes and react to the car slowing and turning. Up till that point in time in the video the car looked like any other car going along the road and it lookes like he decided at the last second to turn in - hence why he hit his brakes and didn't signal. You can't ride under the assumption that every car that passes you is going to suddenly stop and turn into you. Legally, you are supposed to give adequate warning to other motorists that you are turning. Slaming your brakes on and turning without signalling will get you a ticket.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [kdw] [ In reply to ]
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kdw wrote:
"I've been hit 7 times"

Robert,
You might want to ask yourself if maybe there are things you could change about the way you ride that will keep that number at 7, and from your posts here it seems a major one might be not assuming that right of way protects you at all. It doesn't matter to me if the car was right or wrong, what is important is whether or not there were things he could have reasonably done to prevent the crash, and clearly the answer is yes. If you pass a car on the right, you are performing a dangerous move and should be ready for a turn, doors opening, whatever.

In reality, the biggest potential danger here is that the SUV is slowing down to let an oncoming car turn into the parking lot that can't see you/you can't see because of the SUV. The last thing you want on your gravestone is "He was so right".

+1

Having been hit 7 tims by vehicles is not a badge of honor. That kind of experience doesn't tell me that you know the rules of hte road and how to ride safely. In fact, it tells me the opposite.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [patf] [ In reply to ]
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patf wrote:
Some state do allow passing on the right in the shoulder area. This seemed odd to me when I moved to Delaware as other places this was not allowed, but Delaware does allow you to pass left turning vehicles on the shoulder. That means you have to be careful as a cyclist as you aproach a car turning left. Another vehicle may pass you and immediately move into the shoulder in front of you and may slow down. It is always good to know what is around and what people might do.

The other thing people do here that is not legal, but most do it is to pass on the right a string of cars slowed down/stopped waiting for a light. They use the right shoulder and make a right hand turn, but they pull in hundreds of feet before the right turn lane starts. You have to watch for that too.

The person to whom I responded said it was legal in NYS, so I quoted the NYS driver manual that said it isn't.

It's a jungle out there.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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1. I'm not sure that was a bike lane -- a solid white line, in itself, does not make it so.

2. Even if it was a bike lane, the cyclist was not riding in it. It wasn't until the last second, when he attempted to past, that he moved into the "lane."

I'd say both the motorist and the cyclist share fault.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Cal that would be a bike lane.

I agree that coming from behind and making a sudden move to the right of the car is not smart. Still I did not see a right turn signal.


Train safe & smart
Bob

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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [de360] [ In reply to ]
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I have been telling my kids the same thing for a long time. When you are driving it's not the dum things you do that will kill you it's the dum things they do, that will.

So having watched the video a couple of times, and speaking from a bikers perspective.

1 The vehicle is slowing down, brake lights are on.
2 there's a entrance to a gas station there.
3 where would you anticipate the vehicle was going.
4 don't go there.

Hope the bikes ok, but that was a losing proposition.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [de360] [ In reply to ]
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the cyclist is at fault.

andrew
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