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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Philb] [ In reply to ]
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Philb wrote:
So you expect a member of the public to give a damn about some race?! His only interest was getting gas. The roads were open, the racers need to take care and assume the worst scenario.

Like I said, if you are going to allow cars on a race course, then it is up to them to avoid the cyclists. You certainly can't expect a racer to slow down or stop to avoid cars during a race. Otherwise i'll start taking some offers to block up competitors for the next race. You can't expect to have a meaningful race if cars are allowed to interfere with cyclists.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [de360] [ In reply to ]
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Stupid Triathlete all the way.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [superphil] [ In reply to ]
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This all happened in about 5-8 seconds. Give the cyclist a break here. We may have the reflexes of Superman but, sheezh..... You guys are acting as though this wasn't a race but some Sunday training ride. He didn't expect the turn, so why move left? If he had moved left he could have been hit as the guy turned left as well. Sheezh....The driver probably has 50 tickets....I'd love to see his 'rap' sheet. ;)

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Philb] [ In reply to ]
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The year I participated in this race, the director made specific mention in the pre-race briefing that the roads were open to traffic and that we were to follow all traffic rules, except for at intersections where uniformed officers were directing traffic.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [packetloss] [ In reply to ]
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it's not motorists being allowed on a race course, it a race being allowed/permitted to use a road open to traffic. traffic follows all of its normal operations. racers are allowed to share, not given priority.

it's a wonder............
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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You need to pay attention when you are on the bike, period. Triathletes are no smarter then anyone else on the road. I see more stupid cyclists on the road then anyone else.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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Robert wrote:
This all happened in about 5-8 seconds. Give the cyclist a break here. We may have the reflexes of Superman but, sheezh..... You guys are acting as though this wasn't a race but some Sunday training ride. He didn't expect the turn, so why move left? If he had moved left he could have been hit as the guy turned left as well. Sheezh....The driver probably has 50 tickets....I'd love to see his 'rap' sheet. ;)

-Robert

The point is he SHOULD HAVE expected the turn. He's an idiot for not expecting it. What else would the driver be doing, slowing down near a gas station? My opinion is if this guy were actually a decent cyclist, the 'shoulder check + drift left and pass left' should be reflexive. The move he made was completely boneheaded and he paid the price.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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R U kidding me.. Cyclist approaching from the rear of a vehicle in front of him and then decided to pass on the rt and you think the driver of the car is at fault?? Sorry, have to take an alternative position.. I know of no State MV laws that give cyclist more rights on the road just because a race is in session. Most State MV laws clearly state that cyclist are treated as a Motor Vehicle. Therefore passing on the rt would be illegal. He should have slowed when he saw brake lights until he figured out what the driver was up to, or passed on the left. In anycase.. if you are overtaking another vehicle period, you have the higher degree of due care.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [de360] [ In reply to ]
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Two facts:
- He's not using the bicycling lane at all. He's driving on the road which is fine. But then you can't pass a car on the right. You're allowed to do this when you are using a bicyling lane.
- The car DOES SIGNAL and the brake lights were on long enough (He didnt hit the brakes super hard but rather slowed down normally)

To me a 100% cyclist fault. He had to brake as well and pass on the left.
Last edited by: Aralo: Sep 7, 11 9:56
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [yme] [ In reply to ]
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yme wrote:
You need to pay attention when you are on the bike, period. Triathletes are no smarter then anyone else on the road. I see more stupid cyclists on the road then anyone else.

this. I can't count the number of times I'm out riding and I get passed by a cyclist while I'm waiting at a red light - they just blow through and sometimes give me a look like I'M the idiot for actually obeying the rules of the road. I see an amazing number of boneheaded moves by cyclists every day.

I'm all for more cycling infrastructure, better laws to promote safety - but as a group we often don't do ourselves any favors. I think Robert is displaying the same sense of entitlement that a lot of cyclists seem to have - "I can ride however I want and if I get hit it's ALWAYS the driver's fault".
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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jeffp wrote:
it's not motorists being allowed on a race course, it a race being allowed/permitted to use a road open to traffic. traffic follows all of its normal operations. racers are allowed to share, not given priority.

it's a wonder............

Then don't call it a race because it's closer to the gumball rally than a real race.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Aralo] [ In reply to ]
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I just watched the video like 5x. Honestly, the more times I watch the video the more it doesnt look like its the cyclist's fault. The truck is way left, and it slows down. The cyclist likely would have had to cross the yellow line to pass. I am also pretty sure the cyclist couldnt see in front of the truck, so the truck could have been slowing down for any number of reasons. It looked pretty darn safe to pass on the right.

Further, whos to say the truck wouldnt have turned left if the cyclist passed on the left?! Then everyone would be saying how stupid the guy was for not trying to pass on the right.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [ranger5oh] [ In reply to ]
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That's what the turn signal is for. Duh.
Also, who says he HAD to pass? He should've slowed down and waited for the turn. Just like a car would've done it.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Aralo] [ In reply to ]
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The cyclist was in a no win situation.

If he had passed on the left he would have needed to cross the double yellow, which is not only illegal but can get you a penalty. If he had been hit by a car head on people would have said he's a darwin award candidate.

His only safe choice was to slow down and stay behind the car until it turned.

Actually, the safer choice is to stick with triathlons that have closed courses.
Last edited by: matto: Sep 7, 11 10:19
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [de360] [ In reply to ]
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Passing on the right is an accident waiting to happen. On a positive note, it was nice to see a couple competitors stop at the scene.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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nickwhite wrote:
If the cyclist was a motorcycle rider, the truck would be held at-fault.

Wrong! If a motorcycle rider was using the dedicated Bike Lane or shoulder of the road, especially to pass on the inside, he/she would be 100% at fault. That said, a motorcyclist likely would be well aware of what the vehicle in front is doing (which, IMO, is clearly signalling a right turn), and would NOT attempt to pass this vehicle on the right.

This is just a case of a zoned out tri-ath-a-lete making a bad decision. Should the driver of the Excursion have been a little more aware of his/her surroundings? Perhaps. So too should the rider! There was plenty of time to avoid this collision and pass on the left.

All else fails, see this:
Tom A. wrote:
Tom A.'s 3 rules of riding your bike (or motorcycle) in traffic:

1. Assume you're invisible.
2. Assume all cars will turn in front of you if they can.
3. When in doubt, see rules #1 and #2.

"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [p2k2001] [ In reply to ]
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p2k2001 wrote:
Passing on the right is an accident waiting to happen. On a positive note, it was nice to see a couple competitors stop at the scene.

Hold the phone... if the car was turning left, would it have been ok for the cyclist to pass right? My guess is, had that car turned left, and the cyclist didnt get hit, and the GoPro video was posted, noone woulda squawked.

Also, to the above poster... was the turn signal on? The article says no, and its very difficult to tell in the video. To me, it doesnt appear to be on???
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [de360] [ In reply to ]
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It's unclear how a permitted race changes Washington State bicyclists' rights and responsibilities:
  • Riding on the Road - When riding on a roadway, a cyclist has all the rights and responsibilities of a vehicle driver (RCW 46.61.755). Cyclists who violate traffic laws may be ticketed (RCW 46.61.750).

  • Riding Side by Side - Cyclists may ride side by side, but not more than two abreast (RCW 46.61.770).

  • Shoulder vs. Bike Lane - Cyclists may choose to ride on the path, bike lane, shoulder or travel lane as suits their safety needs (RCW 46.61.770).
Depending on one's goals, it might be risky or pointless to race on open roads.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [de360] [ In reply to ]
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I've watched the video many times to see if I can see any turn signal. Don't think so - you do see the taillight change but that I think is more about breaking.

The truck is slowing down, and the likely place it is going is to the right as there is nothing on the left side of the road. Bad choice by the cyclist.

I'm competing against my current fitness level, and planning to kick my a**!
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [p2k2001] [ In reply to ]
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I cant see the video, as it does not seem to play for me; but I have read all the comments describing it.

For all those that say you can not pass on the right....

Yes you can, when a car is making a left hand turn; you certainly can make a legal right hand pass.

If there were NO TURN SIGNALS by the auto; how is one to know which side to go to...the right or the left...Now, this also would argue that the cyclist should have just slowed down...well, that I would have to defer to someone else in terms of legality, and liability; as I just dont know.

Also, since cyclists are required to stay as far to the right as reasonable during normal operation on the road; and since autos can pass cyclists on the left; would that not argue that the shoulder DOES represent a 'bike lane'?

I guess I really need to see that video to see the specifics.

Stephen J

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [matto] [ In reply to ]
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matto wrote:
The cyclist was in a no win situation.

If he had passed on the left he would have needed to cross the double yellow, which is not only illegal but can get you a penalty. If he had been hit by a car head on people would have said he's a darwin award candidate.

His only safe choice was to slow down and stay behind the car until it turned.

Actually, the safer choice is to stick with triathlons that have closed courses.

You hit it on the head -- "his only safe choice" -- so that's what he should have done. Other drivers/riders on the road make dumb decisions or mistakes regularly, but whether you are in a car or on a bike, you have to do what's safe, not compound it with a mistake of your own.

In this instance, the cyclist entered the shoulder at speed to pass on the right a slowing vehicle in front of him. It sucks to be put in the position that the cyclist was in -- racing an open course with cars and trucks, the driver slowed but didn't signal before turning. The cyclist was in a race, so sure he doesn't want to slow down. But the fact is that he should not have just passed (on right or on left) a slowing or stopped vehicle without finding out what's going on. Is the truck turning? Is the truck stopping because of something in the road? The cyclist doesn't know, he has to slow down until he knows what is going on. Then he can make the safe decision. I haven't raced an open course, but don't you have to look at this situation in the same way that you would look at it for a training ride?
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [packetloss] [ In reply to ]
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packetloss wrote:
Like I said, if you are going to allow cars on a race course, then it is up to them to avoid the cyclists. You certainly can't expect a racer to slow down or stop to avoid cars during a race. Otherwise i'll start taking some offers to block up competitors for the next race. You can't expect to have a meaningful race if cars are allowed to interfere with cyclists.

If the race director doesn't get permits to close the road to motor vehicles, then the law requires that cyclists behave according to motor vehicle law. That means no passing on the right (except when normally permitted), and exactly expecting cyclists to slow down or stop to avoid cars during the race. It is not up to motor vehicles to avoid legal road users (cyclists and other motor vehicles) who are behind them. Is it prudent? Of course, just like at any other time.

That they are in a race on open, public roads doesn't mean jack. You can go onto any road course and do any bone-headed legal driving maneuver you want.

No wonder cyclists get a bad name.

(One reason I, after some 25 years of racing bikes and triathlons and training on the road have never crashed is because I act like a motor vehicle and expect drivers to do stupid or unaware things)

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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X2. I had a woman turn in front of me last summer, no signal. I hit the back of her BMW. If she had signaled, I would have been liable under the (BC) Motor Vehicle Act. However, she hadn't, she realized her mistake and left - albeit grumpy.

When on the road on my bike, I am subject to the same set of laws that apply to motor vehicles, at least in my jurisdiction. I suspect it is the same in WA.

Not a lot of sympathy from me on this one.

AP

------------------------
"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [matto] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, the safer choice is to stick with triathlons that have closed courses.

The rider ended up running his bike all the way to transition; three miles in his bare feet and three miles in borrowed shoes.

Closed courses are better, but the guy must have really wanted to finish this one.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Vehicle During Triathlon Caught on GoPro [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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"I've been hit 7 times"

Robert,
You might want to ask yourself if maybe there are things you could change about the way you ride that will keep that number at 7, and from your posts here it seems a major one might be not assuming that right of way protects you at all. It doesn't matter to me if the car was right or wrong, what is important is whether or not there were things he could have reasonably done to prevent the crash, and clearly the answer is yes. If you pass a car on the right, you are performing a dangerous move and should be ready for a turn, doors opening, whatever.

In reality, the biggest potential danger here is that the SUV is slowing down to let an oncoming car turn into the parking lot that can't see you/you can't see because of the SUV. The last thing you want on your gravestone is "He was so right".

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