Yes, cycling is sooooo complicated. 5 seconds is wayyyyyyy to little time to react. Or at least so says the 7-time vehicular collision survivor.

If you can't pound on the facts, pound on the table, or your opponent.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

I saw that coming a mile away......... if my only way to anticipate unfolding traffic events involved cars properly signaling I would have been in many a traffic accident or worse.

Is this one of those FACTS that you keep talking about? You contend as FACT that at 50 feet from a 90 degree right turn with vehicular traffic slowing in front of him, the rider was still on the aerobars going 25mph?

Perhaps you might want to look up the word FACT in the dictionary before continuing to embarrass yourself.

If you don't have a closed course, then you don't have a race IMO.

Then that mean 90% if not more of all races are not really races. Ridiculous.

Because there was no safe way to approach that car, or perhaps any car, without just slowing way down -- to a stop if necessary. The winners of the race could easily be folks that simply risk their lives for a faster time. If you have an open course, its pretty safe to assume that you aren't going to see just one car.

Again, ridiculous. We've all raced on open courses. The vast majority of our races have been on open courses. How often have cars interefered with our ability to race? How often have cars determined the outcome of a race? There's nothing inconsistent with racing and, at the same time, being mindful of the fact that you are on an open course and are technically subject to traffic laws.

The Ford Excursion is actually the ultimate road trip vehicle....

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[code:]
Since we are talking about standard rules of the road here, clearly the cyclist carries most of the blame. Triathlons don't override standard road protocols.

I would add this... That biker was in a race. Race directors need to think long and hard about the degree to which they are going to control access to the bike course. If you don't have a closed course, then you don't have a race IMO. People can ride the course, but the race aspect is over. Why? Because there was no safe way to approach that car, or perhaps any car, without just slowing way down -- to a stop if necessary. The winners of the race could easily be folks that simply risk their lives for a faster time. If you have an open course, its pretty safe to assume that you aren't going to see just one car. [/code]

[quote:]
Requiring closed courses for every race? Congratulations, you've just killed the sport of triathlon. Do you have any suggestions for the name of this new swim/run sport that we're all going to do?[/quote]


I must be really spoiled. I never see cars during my triathlons. I guess its a different experience.


Edit: Sorry still trying to figure out posting options.

I'm not sure what video you watched but it certainly wasn't this one.

I saw the biker approach the car in a span of 2 seconds (second 6 through second 8). In that span, it looks to me like the car hit his brakes at the last second as he decided he wanted to turn right (I did not see him signal). The biker going over 25mph was probably hitting his brakes as soon as he could, but couldn't stop fast enough. That is a hazzardous move even if there aren't bikers on the shoulder.

It's not a real race if the course is open to cars. Once you open it to cars then hiring folks in cars to interfere with your competitors is not only legal but encouraged. All it will do is favor those who are willing to take more risks and ignore safety issues with traffic. Worrying about debris, potholes and tacks on the road while doing 25+ is more than enough for anyone to worry about during a race.

What color is the sky in your world?

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''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson

You keep making statements like this, but repetition does not make for truth, Goebbels notwithstanding.

Any racer who has an expectation that drivers will act differently because there are a bunch of lycra-clad people on bikes around is an idiot. Period. These are public roads, and drivers have exactly as much right to their use as do cyclists in a race. I treat races like I treat training rides, except at a faster pace. Always be aware of road conditions and other road users, and expect drivers to do stupid things. If a road is safe enough to train on, it is safe enough to race on without "protection," excepting of course intersections. Welcome to reality.

There's a race that goes within a couple of miles of my house that I don't do, because one stretch of the bike course I deem unsafe for bikes, especially in a race.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

at the 6 second mark, the vehicle is already beginning to making its slow, yes, slow turn and not sudden movement. by 8 it is the driveway apron. there is nothing sudden about any of this. the vehicle does not not make any sudden moves, only the bike does that.

This whole thing is so simple.

1. If there is a car that I am not driving - I don't know what it will do, until it does it.

2. I try to stay alert for opportunities to improve my own safety, so that I can.

This biker had the opportunity, and either missed it or ignored it, and so came close to a situation that could have killed him.

Generally I agree with you that drivers will not change their behaviors in a race, which is why roads MUST be closed at least on one side of the road.

The fact that a race goes on near you that you will not do, but lots of beginners DO, is very troubling from a triathlon policy standpoint. Should such races be legal? I think not. Because no one has been killed so far is hardly a recommendation!

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

No! The guy who hit me while digging out his garage door opener said he was, ironically, a retired pro mountain biker and he apologized profusely for his bit of momentary stupidity. He got a ticket, but my bike only had a scratched left derailleur. Remember, I've been biking for over 60 years, and haven't been hit for the last 12. I've never been hit in NJ but most of my riding is indoors on a CycleOps PT300. I used to ride thousands of miles every year outdoors, particularly in my 30's and 40's when I was racing crits and starting triathlons.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

The biker is probably doing between 25 and 35 mph as he just came down a hill. Have you braked hard at 35 mph? Ever? I used to race crits and the bunch sprint at the end often ended in mass chaos because of this sort of problem. Of course, one expects that sort of thing when wrestling on a bike (crits) but one doesn't expect sudden braking in a well-marked course, coned, with police and signage. You and the other 20 guys here who all offered things this guy COULD have done are having a major failure of imagination, IMHO.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Exactly. At the 6 second mark it is the first time the ride would have an inkling that the car *might* turn in front of him. Assuming he jammed on his brakes at that point, it wouldn't be fast enough to stop before hitting the car.

I had a similar incident with a biker that turned in front of me last week. I had 2 seconds to slam on my brakes and it wasn't enough time to avoid impact.

Quite likely true, yet completely irrelevant. At the point where the incident occurred he was mere feet away from a 90 degree right hand turn on the course. Clearly he was planning to squeeze between the vehicle and the curb to make that turn. The reasonable assumption, given these circumstances, is that he was on the bull horns already on the brakes and slowing considerably. It would be a suicide maneuver to enter that intersection at the speed you claim he was going.

Now, if we are going to fantasize about possible scenarios and motivations: We were told that there was a police officer directing traffic at the intersection. It is within the realm of the possible that the officer was directing bikes to make the right hand turn and the driver became confused and interpreted the motion as a request for them to turn into the parking area. They check the mirror and the bike is in the lane behind them, so they follow what they believe to be the officer's instructions. Meanwhile, the bike makes his move to the shoulder to pass and gets cut off. No, I don't present this as fact. I present it as one more in a long list of POSSIBLE scenarios given the information available.

I don't buy it. From the very start of the video the racer is catching the car. He should have know well before the 6 sec mark that the driver was going to do something. What the driver was going to do nobody but the driver knew since there was no signal. But the racer should have had his fingers on the brakes and never should never have attempted to pass on the right.

Yes, the driver was partially at fault for not signaling and not checking that the turn was clear, but the racer could have avoided it as well. He took a risk, and paid for that risk.

As for those who say a course must be closed on race day, it sounds great but it's never going to happen for all but the biggest races.

Victor

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Yes, that's a possible scenario. Sometimes the policeman's directions confuse drivers....

I'm done arguing this thread. Until we hear from the cyclist and or the driver, that is....

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

depends theres a bike lane which technically is (not sure about every state or town) the lane for the bike and is a right lane.
Note the suv did not signal right turn either.
I've had this situation happen going along in the bike lane during training ride and cars will pass you and make right turn into your lane.
Pretty much I look for that anyway especially if I see a turn signal.

So might depend on your areas laws. The auto did not signal right turn and turned across the bike lane which I believe in most states or cities are violations.
Granted the cyclist should have kept alert for that situation and since I've had this happen to me(without hitting the car) in training a number of times especiallly on bike lanes
I would have slowed down not sure this guy slowed down.

I'd say legally its the autos fault for not signaling and right turning across a valid lane of traffic(just happened to be bike lane).
But the athlete should have been paying more attention for their own safety because there are lots of drivers who will do this to you.

Watched it another half-dozen times, same conclusion: Stupid move on the part of the rider.

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__________________________________________________
Kotter
Getting back into the game...
Slower than you.

Who prepares for a ninety degree right turn by pulling to the right? I swing as far to the left as I can, like every other experienced bicyclist.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Ha! There is a whole crap-ton of rider-at-fault going on there.

Dave Erickson, the OP and the author of the linked article, is the one who was hit.
Perhaps he will come back on and give his thoughts and comments on the situation that day.

From The bottom right side of his webpage http://www.daveerickson360.com

*9/3 Titanium Man Olympic (Kennewick, WA) 3:25:18, 183rd out of 196

*Hit by a car