Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [NeverEnough] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:07

Post #51 of 154 (10726 views)

No regular 2-4 hour CT sessions, only 1 of those a week. I do maybe one long ride outdoors a month. I actually push harder on the CT vs outdoors. My 3.5 hour ride Saturday was horrible....I averaged 175 I think (computrainer). The 207 70.3 was a race...obviously. I was amazed when I got to Guatanemo and saw the Computrainer set up....but am glad they have it here. I am sick of being shot at though.

As far as HR goes while running, I don't know what that would be....I believe 16 months ago it was 191 running (yes, 191)......and 181 right now would feel like death.

I have no expectations to get to 300 watts....I was merely using that as an example.

I guess I am just wondering how much hope there is for on the bike....I am 44 and started running/working out in 3 years ago. I have a 5:10 HIM under my belt and am shooting to break 5 hours this year. I have more in me on the run and know thats where most of it comes from, I feel like I have a decent swim, but with the bike being the longest leg...I would like to see more improvement there.

Last edited by: NeverEnough: May 12, 14 15:09

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [NeverEnough] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:24

Post #52 of 154 (10694 views)

NeverEnough wrote:

Donzo98 wrote:

NeverEnough wrote:

Alright, thanks for all of the responses....perhaps I should add some clarification.

I am 6'1" 156 lbs on race day, 159/160 during training. My BF is 8.5% (calipers) 12-13% (BF Scale).

I looked back at my last race data (Haines City 70.3). 2:39, 207 average power, 21.0 MPH, IMFL was 20.4 mph, I did not have a power meter for that race.

I have been working with a coach for the last 16 months. I am very pleased with my race performance improvements...he has done a hell of a job...and I have trained my ass off.

We train off of heart rate (bike/run)...and those zones were set 16 months ago, and I have seen definite improvement. I am faster at lower hear rates.

My coach (trust him completely) told me that some of my concern about not being able to push to higher heart rates during training can be due to training fatigue. I am sure that is the case.

My speed on the bike has improved also.....it just seems like the effort I have put in should be yielding more than a 207 avg watts for a race. Really, I don't care what the watts are....just using that as a gauge, as people on ST throw that number around. My goal is to be able to avg 22+ MPH for a 70.3 and 21+ for a full....since speed translates to lower times.

Lastly, i know there are a lot of factors to take in, but for me to hit those speed, what sort of wattage would I need to push (average). Does it just take longer to build up to higher wattage/faster speed on the bike vs run?

... see the bold font above. How do you know your ave power was 207 if you didn't have a power meter??

But...207 watts for over 2.5 hours seems pretty strong to me.

Please read the entire line of text. I did have a PM for the 70.3 where I avg 21. I did not have it for IMFL (140.6) where I averaged 20.4

Sorry.... misread it. What do you think your FTP is?? If you can hold 207 for 2.5 hours +... I would say your FTP must be 260 if not higher.

Last edited by: Donzo98: May 12, 14 15:29

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [NeverEnough] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:38

Post #53 of 154 (10670 views)

NeverEnough wrote:

xtrpickels wrote:

Power13 wrote:

Why are you training off HR for the bike if you have a power meter? And why haven't you reset your zones in 16 months?

Honestly, those two points would make me question what your coach is doing.

This bears repeating.

I keep having a PR (knock on wood) at every race so something is working...and I am very pleased. My question is really about understanding how you get to the point of operating at higher wattage (aka go faster), what is a realistic gain, is it a time thing, leg strength, etc. I guess I just feel like I should be faster on the bike by now.

As an example of what can be done with power one of my clients raised ftp by 31% in 10mths last year (had a few years of tri and an IM build behind him). Achieved by hard work on his part, monthly testing and resetting of zones and ~6hrs a week on the bike. His improvement was a bit more than typical (normally around 15-20% over that period) but a worthy demonstration that, even for an athlete in their 50s, there is no reason not to aim for big improvements.

It's easy to keep improving by just having a consistent program and ironing out execution mistakes. Making the kind of gains that see your FTP at the start of the program become your IM pace requires a bit more from the coach. Which is why I quoted P13 & xtr above - the point is valid.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [jbank] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:44

Post #54 of 154 (10663 views)

jbank wrote:

You ever see Good Will Hunting. Will, the genius, says regarding math, etc:

Will: Right. Well, I mean when it came to stuff like that... I could always just play.

The guys holding 300+ watts for 2-4 hours, a lot of them are like Will. I feel pretty lucky that I got some ok cards dealt to me for cycling, with some hard work I'm >4 w/kg, which allows me to get some ok results as long as there aren't too many "Will"s in the field. Note that none of this discounts the value of hard work, it just means that each of us tends to hit different results with the same workload. A given individual will do better if they work hard/smart.

Do you like apples?

Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Me_XMan] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:49

Post #55 of 154 (10655 views)

Me_XMan wrote:

That's why they're the Pro's and we're not.

Genetics. All genetics.

Last edited by: needmoreair: May 12, 14 15:49

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [needmoreair] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:55

Post #56 of 154 (10641 views)

Earlier it was mentioned that body size has a lot to do with power. In my case having my FTP just over 300W isn't anything to write home about when my Watts/kg is <3.5, and I can't ride a 40km TT under 60min (more like 61-62min).
So if your 150lbs soaking wet and complain you can't hit 300W, I'll trade you bodies so you can hit your number, however I'm not going to trade you back once you realize its not all its cracked up to be.

Last edited by: GrumpyCat: May 12, 14 16:06

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [needmoreair] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:56

Post #57 of 154 (10639 views)

needmoreair wrote:

Genetics. All genetics.

I'm sure pros just love reading this sort of thing. No hard work and training, just genetics.

I'd argue that pros are far more likely to realize their athletic potential than AGers. And thats a terribly hard thing to do.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Jordano] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:56

Post #58 of 154 (10639 views)

Hi Will :). Just don't go showing up here. I already get enough humiliation from the local cat 1/2s.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [GrumpyCat] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:58

Post #59 of 154 (10635 views)

GrumpyCat wrote:

I'm not a great cyclist by any stretch of the imagination, (can almost break an hour for a 40km TT) but being 6'2" nearly 200lbs, my FTP is just over 300. My watts/kg suck however. I'd need an FTP of 360 before I'm at 4w/kg like everyone else on here.

That's me too. I get all excited after a test or really strong ride, then look at Coggan's chart.... notsomuch.....

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Pooks] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 16:03

Post #60 of 154 (10625 views)

Pooks wrote:

needmoreair wrote:

Genetics. All genetics.

I'd argue that pros are far more likely to realize their athletic potential than AGers.

Well of course, most pros don't have to hold down an 8am - 6pm job 5 to 6 days a week.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Kentucky Mac] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 16:09

Post #61 of 154 (10608 views)

Talent, discipline, and desire. Most of us only have only one or two of these traits, then we wonder why we aren't as good as those who possess them all.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Kentucky Mac] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 16:19

Post #62 of 154 (10594 views)

Kentucky Mac wrote:

Pooks wrote:

needmoreair wrote:

Genetics. All genetics.

I'd argue that pros are far more likely to realize their athletic potential than AGers.

Well of course, most pros don't have to hold down an 8am - 6pm job 5 to 6 days a week.

Yeah, they just rolled outta Mom and Dad's house, and became pros. Never worked an honest day in their lives.

float , hammer , and jog

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [GrumpyCat] [ In reply to ]

blueraider_mike

May 12, 14 16:20

Post #63 of 154 (10593 views)

GrumpyCat wrote:

Earlier it was mentioned that body size has a lot to do with power. In my case having my FTP just over 300W isn't anything to write home about when my Watts/kg is <3.5, and I can't ride a 40km TT under 60min (more like 61-62min).
So if your 150lbs soaking wet and complain you can't hit 300W, I'll trade you bodies so you can hit your number, however I'm not going to trade you back once you realize its not all its cracked up to be.

Yep, I am 129lbs, just over 58KG (only 5'4")...my FTP right now is 220...If I get to 300 as an FTP I may compete for best bike leg (pipe dream). Even tho I am 50, I am thinking I may be able to get to 240-250, I have never spend the winter raising my FTP. Maybe this upcoming winter I will do it; right now I think I can get higher just off my HIM build because I am using power to help me make sure I am working hard enough.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 16:48

Post #64 of 154 (10548 views)

Murphy'sLaw wrote:

Kentucky Mac wrote:

Pooks wrote:

I'd argue that pros are far more likely to realize their athletic potential than AGers.

Well of course, most pros don't have to hold down an 8am - 6pm job 5 to 6 days a week.

Yeah, they just rolled outta Mom and Dad's house, and became pros. Never worked an honest day in their lives.

Please re-read and comprehend the post. The comment was about athletic potential. Who will reach their "athletic potential" faster:
a) guy who can train all day
b) guy who only has a few hours to train each day
In many (if not most) cases, it's pretty obvious.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Kentucky Mac] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 17:05

Post #65 of 154 (10527 views)

Kentucky Mac wrote:

Murphy'sLaw wrote:

Kentucky Mac wrote:

Pooks wrote:

I'd argue that pros are far more likely to realize their athletic potential than AGers.

Well of course, most pros don't have to hold down an 8am - 6pm job 5 to 6 days a week.

Yeah, they just rolled outta Mom and Dad's house, and became pros. Never worked an honest day in their lives.

Please re-read and comprehend the post. The comment was about athletic potential. Who will reach their "athletic potential" faster:
a) guy who can train all day
b) guy who only has a few hours to train each day
In many (if not most) cases, it's pretty obvious.

Please re-read and comprehend the post - you don't GET to be a pro, unless you've already displayed quite a bit of ability and effort.
When does this happen? It's certainly before the days of being a pro and having all day to train.

float , hammer , and jog

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Kentucky Mac] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 17:12

Post #66 of 154 (10513 views)

"Discipline is the hardest part of talent."

Joe Dombrowski is riding in TdC now weighs about 145lbs. and can do 20 minutes at 410w whenever he wants. 6.something w/kg. Talent (genetics). Then he works his balls off (still 145lbs with the balls, just an expression) and is now a Euro Pro. Good on him. You can watch him pace Wiggo up el Diablo tomorrow. When something comes easy to you, it's hard to work at it. You discount it. These guys work hard. Phil Gaimon is another one. From Bissell to Garmin. Tough boy.

I'm 6' 4" and have an ftp of about 350w. Also mildly asthmatic and 215lbs and old as fuck. No great genetics unless you like male pattern baldness, but I love to ride the bike and have busted my ass to get to be a mediocre amateur road racer. I think you can raise that ftp number a lot if you focus on training with your PM instead of just having it around as a yousuckometer. Get a coach who knows how to analyze power files and can prescribe intervals to power.

Do work.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [NeverEnough] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 17:20

Post #67 of 154 (10503 views)

I am about your height and weight but go a lot faster on similar watts. Keep working on your position as well as watts. What your coach says is true, your HR is depressed from fatigue, but that is normal some of the time.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [NeverEnough] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 17:25

Post #68 of 154 (10496 views)

I have just retired from tri, but when I was religiously using my HRM, I found no difficulty in maintaining the same high heart rates in all 3 sports.

From exercise, the highest HR's I've seen on my HRM for swimming is 204. Cycling 205 and running 207. Pretty close.

I've done 100km bike rides (fun rides that are races and not much fun) at 175BPM average for 3 hours. Running I've done several 1/2 marathons at 175-180BPM average, and swimming my last IM was 1:02 at 175BPM average.

My cardiologists have restricted me to 175 max,and 160BPM average :-( With those restrictions I just kept getting slower and slower, but at least I'm still alive.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [NeverEnough] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 17:29

Post #69 of 154 (10487 views)

A gross generalisation, but many triathletes (and cyclists too) don't train "hard" enough, nor easy enough.

Usually those that a "plateau" don't brutalise themselves say on a 10 x 30sec on/off, or 3x3min or 4x8min vo2max efforts, to the point of vomiting and/or falling off the bike. Or actually do a genuine L2 ride keeping that power low.

Most end up in the middle, which works for a while. Then it doesn't.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 17:36

Post #70 of 154 (10477 views)

Open question to anyone: On a flat road, decent surface, negligible wind, what is YOUR typical speed (within a range) when you are pushing 300 watts?

On the TT bike it would be ~ 29mph (at 6000ft). Wish I could do 300W for an hour...

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 17:42

Post #71 of 154 (10464 views)

Yeah, they just rolled outta Mom and Dad's house, and became pros.

Kinda sounds like Taylor Phinney...

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 17:47

Post #72 of 154 (10454 views)

Murphy'sLaw wrote:

Kentucky Mac wrote:

Murphy'sLaw wrote:

Kentucky Mac wrote:

Pooks wrote:

I'd argue that pros are far more likely to realize their athletic potential than AGers.

Well of course, most pros don't have to hold down an 8am - 6pm job 5 to 6 days a week.

Yeah, they just rolled outta Mom and Dad's house, and became pros. Never worked an honest day in their lives.

Please re-read and comprehend the post. The comment was about athletic potential. Who will reach their "athletic potential" faster:
a) guy who can train all day
b) guy who only has a few hours to train each day
In many (if not most) cases, it's pretty obvious.

Please re-read and comprehend the post - you don't GET to be a pro, unless you've already displayed quite a bit of ability and effort.
When does this happen? It's certainly before the days of being a pro and having all day to train.

well, sorta. If you look at the majority of the Euro pro cyclists, they are already very solid racers in high school and besides going to school they don't have many other responsibilities and therefore, lots of time to train. Our high school had several guys that later became professional racers for big teams including US postal, RadioShack, Trek, Garmin, Belkin, Lotto, etc.

Once they graduate from high school the guys wanting to take a shot at a pro cycling career will typically either get a part time job to support their racing and still have a lot of time to train (for these guys the next step up is a professionally run cat 3 UCI continental team) or they immediately get to join a UCI Continental team and race and train full time. They don't get a salary but get everything else a pro gets and they do the big U22 races and maybe a few races including pros. Their success in these teams defines their future, you do well and you'll move on to a pro team. If you do not succeed, you've given it a shot and your limitations have been exposed. You will likely need to take a step back and focus on local racing.

_____________________
Don't forget to attack!

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Pooks] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 17:49

Post #73 of 154 (10452 views)

Pooks wrote:

needmoreair wrote:

Genetics. All genetics.

I'm sure pros just love reading this sort of thing. No hard work and training, just genetics.

I'd argue that pros are far more likely to realize their athletic potential than AGers. And thats a terribly hard thing to do.

I'd sure pros would agree with that sort of thing. And the few that I've conversed with about it do.

At that level everyone has worked hard and trained hard. And at the level below that, and at the level below that. I worked very, very hard to get to a Cat 1. I raced and trained with a number of guys who, while my equal at some point in our ascension of the ranks, eventually eclipsed me due to their talent. Some are now pro tour level. They didn't train that much harder or smarter than I did. They just responded to their training and improved that much more.

That's genetics.

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 17:53

Post #74 of 154 (10446 views)

Murphy'sLaw wrote:

Please re-read and comprehend the post - you don't GET to be a pro, unless you've already displayed quite a bit of ability and effort.
When does this happen? It's certainly before the days of being a pro and having all day to train.

Agreed.

It's not about the time to train. If you have the ability to be a pro you're very likely going to showcase that ability very early on in your racing. For a lot of cyclists that's high school/ juniors and some college/espoir. From there they're put into the pipeline and that ability is further developed. But most are doing something besides simply training, whether it be school or a part time job or both.

Or, on that rare occasion, it's that guy so obsessed with the dream that he works odd jobs or odd hours specifically to get in those training hours. But rest assured nothing is gifted and that kind of lifestyle is very hard to maintain.

Last edited by: needmoreair: May 12, 14 17:53

Re: Cycling Fitness...how the hell do people hit 300 watts? [needmoreair] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 18:07

Post #75 of 154 (10431 views)

We're essentially saying the same thing. Hard work gets you to the higher/highest levels of the sport, genetics will determine what level you can ultimately reach. But without the work you'll not get anywhere.

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.