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Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858
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http://www.bikeradar.com/...f-slx-gallery-51679/

Martin previously had an 858 up front. Given that he's SRAM/Zipp sponsored, I can't imagine why he would run an 808 over an 858 with the implication being that perhaps the 808 tested faster for him.

The cassette choice was curious as well 11-32 rear with a 2x setup up front?

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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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you sure there is a small ring on there and not just the largest chain catcher possible?
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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On the cassette choice, I saw in a gcn video one time they did a pro bike for him, they claimed he likes a decently wide cassette so that he doesn't have to come out of his gigantic front ring as much. Rather cross chain for a short burst opposed to shift into and out of the little ring - sort of thing.
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/tony-martins-canyon-speedmax-cf-slx-gallery-51679/

Martin previously had an 858 up front. Given that he's SRAM/Zipp sponsored, I can't imagine why he would run an 808 over an 858 with the implication being that perhaps the 808 tested faster for him.

The cassette choice was curious as well 11-32 rear with a 2x setup up front?

And the 808s aren’t even NSW!
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
I can't imagine why he would run an 808 over an 858 with the implication being that perhaps the 808 tested faster for him.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit, though I have very limited data on NSW's.

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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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FWIW, I recall Swisside said that they investigated the tubercles concept in CFD but couldn't find a configuration that decreased drag. That's not to say the physics behind the concept is bunk (it's not). I could see such a rim design being far more sensitive to what tire is used.

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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting about the tubercles.

But an odd thing, why does one never see that feature or a similar feature on the leading edges of any (to the best of my knowledge) bird wings?

.

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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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the 858 and 808 NSW are clincher only, seems he chose the tubular option Firecrest 808 for certain TT events.
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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The 454 has been out there for a while now. 858 has been out for a few months.
Did Zipp themselves ever release wind tunnel test results backing their claims? Did anyone?
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Kind of reminiscent of our testing a couple of weeks ago when the 404 with a 23 mm Supersonic beat the heck out of the 454 with a 23 mm Corsa Speed on a Specialized Shiv in the velodrome ridden by a very experienced track national record holder.
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Interesting about the tubercles.

But an odd thing, why does one never see that feature or a similar feature on the leading edges of any (to the best of my knowledge) bird wings?

.

My suspicion is that the tubercle approach is I’ll-suited to applications that are also driven by strength to weight. Also, birds have another solution to stall angle in the form of wings which can easily change geometry and orientation. Honestly, they’re remarkable feats of engineering themselves.

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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [Thorax] [ In reply to ]
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Thorax wrote:
The 454 has been out there for a while now. 858 has been out for a few months.
Did Zipp themselves ever release wind tunnel test results backing their claims? Did anyone?

I believe Zipp has stated in marketing material that it’s the fastest wheel they’ve ever produced.

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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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http://aerogeeks.com/...bon-clincher-review/

One more thing worth mentioning about the design… if you compare the 858 with an 808 NSW, you’ll quickly notice that the 858 is thinner—significantly so. An 808 is 26.4mm (front and back), while the 858 has a maximum width of 24.4mm at the front and 23.7mm for the rear wheel. According to Zipp, the reasoning behind the width difference as to reduce aerodynamic drag. In the absence of a crosswind, a narrower wheel is always going to be aerodynamically faster.

One of the reasons aero rims have grown wider (an innovation that was first made by Zipp with their Firecrest wheels) is because, with a conventional rim, wider rims are less affected by crosswinds. With the Sawtooth rim design, Zipp has improved crosswind performance so much that they were able to go to a narrower rim and improve the aerodynamics even more. In short, they are able to get the best of both worlds—a wheel that is aerodynamically faster and more stable in a crosswind than a wide conventional rim.

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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
http://aerogeeks.com/2018/02/06/zipp-858-nsw-carbon-clincher-review/

One more thing worth mentioning about the design… if you compare the 858 with an 808 NSW, you’ll quickly notice that the 858 is thinner—significantly so. An 808 is 26.4mm (front and back), while the 858 has a maximum width of 24.4mm at the front and 23.7mm for the rear wheel. According to Zipp, the reasoning behind the width difference as to reduce aerodynamic drag. In the absence of a crosswind, a narrower wheel is always going to be aerodynamically faster.

One of the reasons aero rims have grown wider (an innovation that was first made by Zipp with their Firecrest wheels) is because, with a conventional rim, wider rims are less affected by crosswinds. With the Sawtooth rim design, Zipp has improved crosswind performance so much that they were able to go to a narrower rim and improve the aerodynamics even more. In short, they are able to get the best of both worlds—a wheel that is aerodynamically faster and more stable in a crosswind than a wide conventional rim.

which leads us to tire choice, and perhaps sponsor issues or personal preference led TM to pick the wider wheel to better mate with his tire of choice.

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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Worldtour time trials are almost always technical in spots. So wider 25mm tires make sense. It's not like the out-and-back TT's in North America.
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [nightfend] [ In reply to ]
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They also have hills, and worldtour riders are as obsessed with weight as anyone, so he chose the lighter tubular setup.
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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He doesn’t want to look like a complete Fred. Even Tony Martin is embarrassed to ride such a ridiculously overpriced wheel
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Allegedly. Until there's actual test(s), to me, it's a cool story bro.
I know Zipp's claims, but I don't know why not even Zipp have published wind tunnel tests. Sounds... weird, to say the least.
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
He doesn’t want to look like a complete Fred. Even Tony Martin is embarrassed to ride such a ridiculously overpriced wheel

My bad, this was the correct answer.
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [Thorax] [ In reply to ]
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Thorax wrote:
Allegedly. Until there's actual test(s), to me, it's a cool story bro.
I know Zipp's claims, but I don't know why not even Zipp have published wind tunnel tests. Sounds... weird, to say the least.

This. I'm sure Zipp managed to find some outlandish protocol that shows it to be fastest (likely for a silly yaw angle) in said situation, but dollars to donuts the standard 808 is faster when it matters. As for choosing tubs, well they could have tested faster, but also could have been chosen for roads more likely to produce punctures.
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Why do people think it's tubulars? Just because it says so in the article? It's obviously ridden with errors:

SRAM Red cassette - nope, it's not a Red cassette.
Zipp 900 disc - pretty sure that's a Super-9.
Tacx Tao bottle cage - nope again.
Tubulars - it looks really much like clinchers to me.

It also looks like there's actually no small chain ring on the bike. I wouldn't put too much stock into whatever wheels or tires are on this bike. It might be a training bike they were handed for some shots. And the team/Zipp might very well not supply any 858's for training. I was told last year by a rider on Katusha that they were quite strict with how much equipment they supplied, that they didn't just hand it out if you needed e.g. a cross bike for winter training. So said person had to buy his own cross bike and was seemingly then training all winter on a Felt cross bike in full Katusha outfit. Kind of funny. I was told Kristoff also had to buy a bike himself.
Last edited by: MTM: Feb 9, 18 13:56
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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I know Tiago Machado got a fully equipped mtb bike (Canyon, obv). He's not even close to being one of the bigger names there.
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [Thorax] [ In reply to ]
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didn't HED come out with the fat aero wheel first with the Stinger?
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
One of the reasons aero rims have grown wider (an innovation that was first made by Zipp with their Firecrest wheels)


HED C2 beat Firecrest to market. Firecrest was superior, and HED had to very soon follow up with the "SCT" revision to C2. But C2 was unambiguously the first "wide" aero wheel to market. 2009 vs. 2010.
Last edited by: trail: Feb 9, 18 18:57
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Re: Curious: Tony Martin Uses 808 Over 858 [mike s] [ In reply to ]
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