Swim more.

I wouldn't break it down into separate swim, bike, and run blocks.

How much swimming do you think I should add to a baseline week? One more so I'm doing 4/w?
Also why shouldn't I separate i into different blocks?

I would try to swim 3 or 4 times per week at around 2500 yards per session.

If you do bike and run blocks, you won't be swimming as much.

I like consistency.

My current plan has at least 3 swims per week even when doing a bike/run block, and I can prob get in an extra swim somewhere at least most weeks. Definitely agree on the consistency and that is really my main goal this upcoming year.

You are seeming to swim 4 hours a week

I think if you want to improve your swim and qualify for HIM it needs to be more

Yes most weeks my plan was 3-4h and during the block a bit over 6h. It's seems from both comments that I should increase that so I'll make some changes and try do average 5 swims per week, but that is really my limit, especially during the winter when I can't do OW.

I'll bite:

First off just to clarify I am assuming you mean your swim pace is ~1:50/100m? So that is roughly a 1:12 IM swim.....not horribly slow but definitely the weakest of the 3 disciplines for you.

Your run sounds tremendous, especially for a big guy like yourself.

Was the 20 min FTP test 326W or was is that 95% of your 20min power? Either way very solid but I'd rank it still relatively weaker than your run.

So high level assessment my guess is you certainly have the potential to KQ if you can put it all together, although there a some really fast dudes in the 25-29 AG you are about to move into.

Questions/comments on your proposed program:

• How far out from your A race are you planning on starting this? Based on my understanding of what you wrote you are taking about at least 6 x (6 weeks+1 recovery week)=42 weeks!!! Maybe I am misinterpreting???
• 6 weeks seems like an awful long time between recovery weeks. My guess is the most common ratio is 3:1
• ~20 hours a week right off the bat also seems very heavy, not to mention 6 weeks in a row. If your current training load is 4-5 hours on the bike and 1-2 swims I see that kind of volume as something to build up to
• Your run volume in your "run block" seems pretty high..I'm guessing 10 hours for someone with your speed is going to be +-80 miles (even with "easy runs").I know you are trying to improve your marathon time to 2:40 but I think in one season you might have to pick between that and a KQ attempt. I may be completely wrong but it seems like you may have to pick your focus.

So final thought/comment/recommendation. GET A GOOD COACH!!! Seriously. Given the numbers you are putting up now you obviously have both talent and work ethic (I don't think too many people can put down a 2:45 marathon without both). My concern given your proposal is that you go into this endeavor with a relative lack of experience and wind up getting injured and lose a whole season. A good coach is worth every penny and there are plenty out there that will not charge an arm and a leg. A good coach gives you someone to be accountable to (although sounds like you are self motivated), and will be able to push you when needed and more importantly FOR YOU--- talk you out of over training and hopefully make sure you know how to recover properly and stay healthy.




Just my $0.02. Bets of luck on the mission and please let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the reply, and yes that is 1:50/100 so not terrible, but I would like to be around 10 min faster to be in a better position.
The 20 min test was 326 so guess my ftp is around 290 and I agree it is a lot weaker. I hope to get to 4w/kg come next summer, but really is impossible for me to speculate.
I have a 30k trail race in about 3w, after that I plan on doing a few weeks of strength training and then start the first block mid oct. The race I'm hoping to qualify in is mid august so my training plan roughly spans until the end of july and then I'll do a two week taper.
Yeah I wasn't quite sure about the duration of the blocks, I just took 6 weeks since that is usually what I do during a normal run build. Will look in to shortening this to maybe 4w?
Weekly total will be a bit less during the fall, as I will focus more on speed and will need the recovery. Will probably be around 15h/w during the first 20w and the gradually build during the spring, but it is definitely a buttload of training! Not sure how my body will cope really, so gradually building sounds smart.
Regarding the run volume you may be right here as well, I usually bite off more than I can chew... And you are right that I probably have to choose what to focus on, and currently that is tri and KQ, so in case I have to choose, run volume will absolutely go down in order to either get some more rest or some extra bike/swim time.

Regarding a coach, I know how beneficial it is, but it's just not possible at the moment. After living expenses I basically have 500€/month and the coaches I've talked to are around 200€ which would only leave me with 300 for food and other costs. I will get a coach after I graduate when I'm working, but right now I'll have to make due without.
Many thanks for the comments and tips!

At 24yo forget doing more than 2 LC races a year. Focus on getting as fast as you can.

Speed kills...those you race against. It really helps to be as fast as possible while you're young.

Ironman is stupid. get fast. Exercising all day will always be available to you.

Get your marathon/10k times as fast as possible, figure out how to add 8-10kph to your avg speed on the bike over 40k and figure out a way to get your swim into the low 28's...minimal. If you do that with your run, you'll have a lot of people whimpering when you show up.

The person who was only a 2:20 oly triathlete probably won't find themselves battling for a top AG spot in a 70.3. in your AG 2:05 people are a dime a dozen.
The 2:05 oly person, if they don't screw the pooch in the race with poor decision making, will almost never have to worry about the 2:20 oly guy when they move up to 70.3 racing.

If you can drop another :30-:50 off your 10k times that will be reflected when you move to LC. You need to add some serious speed to your S/B

LC racing is about going slow as fast as possible. It's better to figure out how to go as fast as possible then figure out how to dole that speed out over a 70.3.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Regarding the coach, if you really can't swing it financially you should at a minimum get a plan from one or do some one off in depth consultations. There are tons of reputable coaches out there you can get them from. You can do a search on:


https://www.trainingpeaks.com/training-plans


You should also probably use something like Trainingpeaks or similar to track everything.

Another place to get plans are from these guys...they have a good reputation:

https://www.qt2systems.com/shop/358-catId.562036768.html


Looks like around $100 seems to be the ballpark for a semi-customized one off plan.




the timeline information helps a bit. Good news is you have plenty of time. My suggestion is spend the next couple of months working on the weaknesses. Swim A LOT. Join a masters group. Take some lessons. I am an adult onset swimmer and it used to be my weakest leg by far. I swam a ton (relatively) over the last few years in the offseason (up to ~ 100k yards a month) and finally broke an hour for an IM swim this year, so it can be done ( and you are starting from a better place than I was).


In terms of your total volume during your blocks, 15 hours/week still seems pretty high to start out with....you are talking about training for almost a year...that is a long time to maintain that much continuous training. I see most serious long course triathletes building up to 20 or more hrs/week leading up to a race but I don't know many that maintain that all year.


Anyway...again good luck and keep us posted!

I would say cut the running down to 30+ MPW with no garbage runs. Dont run to the pool, maybe ride? Take all that extra time and learn how to swim fast. 5 sessions a week should be minimum, that Is where you are going to improve overall. IF you get out of the water quicker, you will ride faster and start the run more in contention.

Your run is fine, and on a high quality 30+ MPH a week it can get faster still. I know a lot of world class pros that only run that much and could do 30 flat 10K's or better. I was never a runner and seldom ran more than 30 miles, and I inched dow to a 32 flat 10k in just a few years, the other stuff definitely helped fill in any mileage gaps..

To get a Kona slot I would say you need to either bike and run like a Lionel 6 years ago, or get that swim down to 1;20 pace, while making micro improvements on your bike and run.

Orren:

Conceptually your off to a good plan. Probably want to put in more specifics on your workouts. You should align the purpose of the workouts to your race goals in more detail too. If interested, check your PM Inbox for a year's supply of personalized long distance workouts free of charge. I understand the student on a budget situation. Pick and choose what you like.

Desert Dude does provide good insight about building speed when young. Distance can wear on you over time when trying to re-build speed. Though you may have circumstances of limits or changes in the future that may be the reason to try for KQ over the next year. Good luck.


https://www.palmtreesahead.com/feed
https://www.palmtreesahead.com/tri-50-states

Thanks for the reply Brian, and I know that I will have time for LC when I'm older and that has been what I've been struggling with for the past couple of years. Even when I was just running I tended to draw to the longer stuff because my 5/10k were relatively weak compared to my half and full as well as mid distance stuff like 800/1500. If I were to go the short distance route, wouldn't my first block be similar? I will be doing vo2 and speedwork on all three disciplines and focus more on intensity? Or do you recommend cutting it down further to like 12h/w and just bang workouts hard?

Thanks Monty, I feel I have to concede after practically everyone says my run volume is too high :) Luckily I have access to some fast dudes I can swim with!
Regarding the run, I know it's fine and I likely won't have to make huge improvements to be competitive in AG ranks, main reason the run volume is high is just because I love running but yeah seems consensus is saying to cut it down, so the dude abides.

Thanks I will definitely add more specificity, this was just more a general outline of the plan to see if I'm at least headed in the right direction which I sort of seem to be :)
Wow huge thanks, that is really invaluable and much appreciated!
I will rethink my plan on LC and see if I should maybe do a few years of oly and sprints instead. How does my overall volume change when focusing on short course? In my head I'm thinking the overall training will be the same, except during the spring I'll do mile repeats instead of cruise intervals and add at least one more interval workout to the bike? And then of course some different specific race workouts.

Anyonewho can run a sub 2 hr marathon at 80kg can eventually do 360 watts for 20'.
To get better on the bike:

4 real bike days per week, fill in as many more as needed but all recovery <50% threshold. Run 3-4 times a week but all easy, adding strides if you're worried about leg speed. Swim as desired.

Twice weekly: 2x 20 at 88-95% ftp, or similar with about 40' hard work on minimal recovery.

Once weekly: 60-90' at 80-90% ftp or ~85-92% lthr. As close to continuous as possible, taking short breaks as needed or as stoplights dictate.
The following day: 3 hrs at endurance, conversational effort.

That should be about 8 hrs a week with wu and cd.

Retest after 3-4 weeks in place of the tempo ride, continue 5-8 weeks before adding more intensity and volume.

Well I can't run sub 2 yet, but I have high hopes for a battle with Kipchoge during the next breaking 2 ;)
Thanks for the tips, do you think it's necessary to do all the workouts in aero? Or can I maybe do the hard efforts and 2x20 upright and the longer continuous ones in aero?

a strict running 5/10k that is weak compared to your only running peers still puts you in the company of all but the fastest ITU guys. Your run time right now gives you the ability to run with almost all the top long course pros off the bike. Now if you can S/B with them that's a different story.

You could start off a block like that with a ton of vo2. I think if I got a bunch of marathoners who wanted to take it to the next level in their training, I may start off with a few weeks of short(er) fast(er) repeats before layering on a ton of volume.

For triathletes IDK, pro's with several years under their belts I'd be more likely to do that but otherwise most age groupers don't have the training under them to really benefit from that. They'd probably be better served by more aerobic volume early in the season.

Different paths for different athletes. You question is as much philosophical as practical when talking generalities.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Lol, yeah. Got my numbers mixed up. Fwiw, I'm fairly confident bc I'm on the other side of this imbalance: competent biker and mediocre runner. I backed out the ballpark O2 requirements for a 325 watt, 2 hr ride ( which was a benchmark ride for me at 80kg when I was in shape) and it comes out a little above 6 min miles (caveat lots of ass-u-mptions made in the comparison).

To your question: it's a little of both. A lot of the work, especially at first, can be done out of aero but eventually you need to ride both hard and long in the position you want to race in. How much adaptation is necessary varies from person to person but a new rider should expect to need more time in aero.

Rest or Recovery Days?

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