Looks like you could have possibly sized down an inch or 2 and that would allow you to move the elbow pads back.
But with your setup as is, I'd say neutralize your arm carriage out front (drop your hands) to a 90 degree then move arm-pads and extensions back accordingly.

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Kind regards,
DJ

The thing is is that I have the ability slide my arms back because of the length of the scoops. Notice how I'm about an inch+ slid forward ok the scoops. This is my more aggressive position and then if I want to relax a bit, I just slide back some. And also the scoops are mounted as far forward on the bars as is. 90° angles are honestly kind of an antiquated concept from what I've gathered.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
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Think it still comes down to personal preference to some degree for some.
Sorry to site pros but many of them may have high stacks but not high hands. So not an antiquated style. Totally get what you are saying though.

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Kind regards,
DJ

I believe that’s the LG P-09 helmet.

If so, then take the visor off and use regular sunglasses. For some odd reason, which I can not explain, that helmet tests faster with sunglasses vs the visor.

So I've heard that in a couple of random places now but have never actually seen the data to back it up. Did you test it yourself? I certainly like the convenience of a visor but would drop it for sure if there is a difference.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
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It comes from desertdude I believe, and all his testing. I'd PM him, might be able to help.

There an interaction with the visor/glasses and plug, but I can't quite remember what the trick was. The old thread with Jim Manton discussed it in depth.

The first think I would do is find (or make) extensions that fit up next to your fore arms. That is a lot of round tubing hanging out in the wind.

The next thing to try is maybe a new helmet. Some people have good luck with the wider helmets that do a better job covering the shoulders. The old POC Tempor is the obvious one, but the BBB works well on a number of people. Maybe the new Uvex.

Also, how tall are you and what altitude are you riding at? That gives a better idea about whether that is a good speed at 345 watts.

My recollection is that the helmet is faster at triathlon types of speed with glasses, say 27mph and under, and faster at TT speeds with the visor.

Well, that would likely be more comfortable for long course triathlon which is why that approach is so commonly recommended. But there's a very good chance it will make him slower. The only way to know for sure is to test. Looks like traveling for wind tunnel testing is off the table right now so I'd say careful Chung testing is his best bet.

get rid of the visor & plug..ask me how I know hahaha
Better yet ditch that for an aerohead. Your chances for success are > aerohead than the LG. The P09 is good for ~80% of people. When it's bad it typically does a good job of being bad. The Aerohead even when it's bad is usually only 2-3w off the fastest helmet for that person

You're very stretched out in that clip.

Hands up idk, i mean I get why people do it bc it is so dang comfy. It's typically not the fastest solution for 85% of triathletes. Although there are exceptions. If you are

1. in a very, very low yaw environment. Too bad they don't have those races where they brought pools inside velodromes from back in the late 80s early 90s.
2. can go speeds that create a very, very low yaw environment. It's hard for triathletes, even pro triathletes, to go at velocities that make these conditions more likely.

I'd venture a guess it's pretty solid and we'd find ~ 10-12w of drag to shave when we can get back to using the tunnel.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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i'm not really sure if i'd want to position optimize for 19k TT work.

since you're at 6000ft in that post i'd say that's a fair number of watts for just over 30 mph, but you are doing a u turn so that will affect the avg pace.

do a 2hr TT and take some video then report back; that'd be what i'd want to "optimize."

i will take that bet!

Appreciate the tips. I probably won't swap helmets until I can get into a tunnel, except for maybe the Aerohead, but it's definitely an interesting consideration to go with the wider ones.

As far as the above question goes. I'm 6'3" 167lbs, so not exactly small. But this ride was done at 5800ft so I got some free aero there.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
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I mean I didn't change anything position wise except for maybe seat height a tad from when I raced Indian Wells 70.3 in December, so I think this is still a pretty accurate idea. Maybe more time spent in the back of the cups with a slightly higher head and shoulders though.

The turn around is a major speedbuster though, as it's on a downhill and I had to wait for a car to pass before turning so I ended up coasting and braking a bit longer.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
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well, position looks good then. i wouldn't change anything.

i'd focus more on your run form from miles 8-13. how you go about economizing that is probably more important to your overall race placement.

Well the good news is that in about 3 weeks I'll be living within a stones throw of you on Virginia, so when life gets back to normal hopefully I can pop down before racing starts back up.

And yeah I love the comfort of high hands but would be willing to drop if something else is faster of course.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
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Oh gosh. The run form video I took a few months ago is so comical it's almost embarrassing.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
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no expert, but I'll play (maybe I'll learn a thing or two from the peeps who really know what they're talking about)

it looks, to me, like your hands are in a tweener position. I'd guess that you either want to get them closer to your face, not necessarily higher, but inward, maybe moving the pads down slightly to do so to keep the same torso angle) or flatten them.

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Well since I live in Tucson we could drive there in 2d from ABQ. I'll swing by, we'll quarantine for 14d then make the trip. We can easily do social distancing in the tunnel.

Road trip!
The first rule of road tripping is No P until fuel gauge reads E
The second comes from the former state police in my family: 9 over your fine 10 over you're mine - except in TX where they like to give you warnings for 9 over...ask me how I know and how many times I've learned (or not) learned this

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

a fast triathlete i know was recently in the tunnel in toronto, and while he primary focuses on 140.6 i found some insights he gained interesting

• "turtling" or shrugging is not worth it because it is simply not sustainable over a 4:10-4:30 bike ride
• as such, putting elbows in together very very close serves to "lock in" the shoulder position
• while not quite as aero it was significantly more sustainable and only marginally less aero
• found that forearm hugging extensions were worth the improvement, especially with ~10deg tilt

sort of goes against the common wisdom (including mine) of turtling being an effective cda reducer. realistically, if you are racing at fairly high output (80% +) the turtle is probably not a good option.

Interesting, although in my own field testing turtling made a pretty significant difference. You don't need to do it all the time, I focus primarily on doing it on the faster sections of the course where aero is more important. I don't bother when I'm riding up false flats in aero. I don't have any problem doing it on 70.3, haven't done long course in a while.

i think in this n=1 (although it looks like frodo does the same thing, and maybe kienle, so maybe n=3) example the importance of positional stability is prioritized over a (let's all be honest and call it uncomfortable) shrug.