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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Don't overthink it for now. Just go race, see what it's like, try out a few different approaches, and then come back with thoughts and questions.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [mjp202] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all the advice lads! Lots to take in, but I have some semblance of a race plan... which I'm sure will go out the window on the first lap, but hey... I'll let you know how I get on.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
Quick clip in is key, or front row start. I have had a crit that was literally over in the first 10seconds because I had a 4th row start and the few guys around me in front of me struggle to clip in

I think an equally important skill is feeling comfortable riding a few hundred meters when you are not clipped in but still stepping on the pedal. This is easy with most look style cleats & even speedplay. That way if you don’t get clipped in immediately, you aren’t a sitting duck.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
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turningscrews wrote:
Trauma wrote:
Quick clip in is key, or front row start. I have had a crit that was literally over in the first 10seconds because I had a 4th row start and the few guys around me in front of me struggle to clip in


I think an equally important skill is feeling comfortable riding a few hundred meters when you are not clipped in but still stepping on the pedal. This is easy with most look style cleats & even speedplay. That way if you don’t get clipped in immediately, you aren’t a sitting duck.

So most crits go flat out from the start?
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with more or less everything that's been said thus far. I've found a good time to attack is during / immediately after preme sprints. ie, sprint with the preme sprinters and keep going. There's some disorganization and people may assume you're just going for the preme. Also, occasionally you get brownies.


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All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. ~Gandalf
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
So most crits go flat out from the start?

No. But you should be prepared to go flat out from the start, just in case. That means lining up near the front if you can, and being fully warmed up and ready to go if necessary.

The most common scenario is that the first 200m or so is kinda fast, but not a full sprint, as people try to get good position immediately. But then there'll be a few relatively subdued warmup laps as everyone gets a little extra warmup before any real fireworks really start.

All depends on the people in the race, per my first post. Last year I was lining up for a crit and got a funny feeling while checking out some fast guys from one team who were on the front line. Some instinct told me to do a full cyclocross start (all out). I did, and just *barely* made into the 5-man break created by those fast guys who did a full ~1500W sprint off the line. The other ~50 people in the race never saw us again.

Always be alert.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [ In reply to ]
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Some good tips on here.

Just want to point out that almost every early season cat 5 crit breaks up relatively early. Especially if it's windy (like most March/April races) or it's technical. Early season races in lower cats are especially scary because you've a ton of riders chomping at the bit after a winter of indoors but they have forgotten how to ride a bike at speed. Try to keep near the front and don't be reluctant to put your nose in the wind and move up the hard way if you feel uncomfortable. Yes, crits are all about efficiency but don't be afraid to expend a few extra kJs in the name of safety.

When I was racing in the Midwest the first crit of the year was on a motor racing track with zero tricky corners, but multiple ambulances were called every year. Spring fever is a dangerous thing.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:

So most crits go flat out from the start?

There was mention of it being a mixed start with U15 kids.
Those kids are highly likely to put the hammer down from the get go.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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For your first crit you simply need to show up and race. Then next weekend, do it again. Then the next, then the next.

Then, after you've done a few, you'll have a much better idea of any pertinent questions and things that you need to work on. And a lot more of what's been written in this thread will start to make sense.

There's simply too much "advice" to take in and digest without actually having done any racing. So go have fun, be safe, and report back.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
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turningscrews wrote:
Trauma wrote:
Quick clip in is key, or front row start. I have had a crit that was literally over in the first 10seconds because I had a 4th row start and the few guys around me in front of me struggle to clip in


I think an equally important skill is feeling comfortable riding a few hundred meters when you are not clipped in but still stepping on the pedal. This is easy with most look style cleats & even speedplay. That way if you don’t get clipped in immediately, you aren’t a sitting duck.

Yes... most people who have ridden cyclocross tend to have this skill on lock, these gents didn't. It was amplified, because we were effectively starting on short plateau in the middle of a climb...

Depends on the crit whether they are flat out from the gun. I find most of them tend to be, although some of the local training ones have a controlled ramp up, to give everyone chance to ride in the group, before they allow the racing to begin in earnest...

As for someone mentioning to ride inside line, especially with roundabouts... I'd put that in the so/so advice category... the risk riding inside, is that you get guys that bomb corners like they're riding solo, forgetting they're in a pack and come across you very quickly, so be ready to hop the curb if needed... Years back we had a crit that was literally a straightaway with a roundabout at each end... it was hairy at first, but it strung out really quickly, and was rarely wider than two abreast through the roundabouts... That was the crit where I was most nervous beforehand of all of the ones I have raced, but it was also the most fun...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Find the local douchebag ride, typically populated with cat 3 & 4 riders and angry masters. The guys that race each other every day, disregard traffic laws, and have anger issues. Riding with them will prepare you for riding in a racing pack where everyone is angry and just looking out for themselves.

Don't find the higher category riders or more experienced masters who have bike racing in perspective, thinking that since those are "better" riders you'll learn more. They'll treat you with civility. There's no civility in a crit. Ride with these people once you've figured out what you're doing, and when you don't want every ride to be a fight.

PROTECTING YOUR FRONT WHEEL IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, NO ONE ELSE'S.


Wear reasonable length shorts & socks, and a jersey with sleeves. God forbid anyone tag you as a triathlete.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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I think of taking corners like this if you're in a pack that you don't really trust. Slow corners, take the outside line. There is usually less traffic on that line. Although it is the longer route you can usually carry more speed on that line so the acceleration won't be as rough coming out of the corner. Also if someone does happen to go down in a slow corner they will fall in place so the risk of being taken out is minimal. For a fast corner the line shouldn't matter, but he inside is the safest bet because at speed anyone who goes down, their momentum will carry them to the outside of the corner. Taking with them anyone who is outside of their line. Riders sweeping down to the apex from the outside nothing to worry about as long as you aren't the guy trying to make up positions by braking late and going down the inside of the corner. IMO if you are doing that it is you responsibility slightly more so that the riders taking the optimal line through the corner. They still shoulder some responsibility but are not to blame in that case you would be coming from behind and would better know where riders are going. Also when cornering a high speed look where you want to go and not were you are going. Everything will be much smoother if a change in line in needed. Someone has mentioned it before to but do not focus on the wheel just in front of yours only. Look two to three riders up. You will be able to see the flow of the pack better and your movements won't be as twitchy, sudden, or seem erratic. Also, I like to keep my cadence high that way the torque is minimized on the accelerations that occur.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [woodys737] [ In reply to ]
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woodys737 wrote:
trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5


Why not?


+2. 5 to go is when the race is on. Fight or lose.



ON lap 5 not 5 to go, big difference.

Yes 5 to go if you are not at the front you never will be.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5


Why not?

because you have 50 more to go...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [pknight] [ In reply to ]
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pknight wrote:
crits are the X-games for mid life crisis masters

:)) yeah rodeo for modern gladiators...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:

because you have 50 more to go...


You can take a gamble and stay back. But you run the risk that your race could be over like 2 minutes into the race (if your intention was to win).

Here is Colin Strickland in lap five, ending everyone's race. You can tell the camerman "Crit King" Daniel Holloway nearly decided to try the bridge, but didn't.


Last edited by: trail: Feb 9, 18 7:58
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

because you have 50 more to go...


You can take a gamble and stay back. But you run the risk that your race could be over like 2 minutes into the race (if your intention was to win).

Here is Colin Strickland in lap five, ending everyone's race. You can tell the camerman "Crit King" Daniel Holloway nearly decided to try the bridge, but didn't.


This is Redhook, it is not a crit...

It is fixie shitshow for hipsters with beards, they have no brakes and dynamics are totally different from normal crit, it is more like track racing on steroids.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
It is fixie shitshow for hipsters with beards, they have no brakes and dynamics are totally different from normal crit, it is more like track racing on steroids.

The guy with the camera is a multi-time U.S. national criterium champion, and world-class caliber (he just won a track World Cup in the omnium, and is the U.S. men's omnium racer on for the upcoming track World Championships. Not a hipster.

Those are all, really, really good criterium racers. The dynamics aren't that different. You don't use brakes in crits, generally, anyway.

In any case I could find example after example of criteriums where the action all happened in the first 5 laps. You have to be alert.

You can rest in back if you're the sprinter and it's the job of your teammates to neutralize any breaks and force a field sprint. If you don't have team tactics playing out, you'd better be near the front.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
I'm popping my crit cherry this weekend. No idea what I'm doing.... It's 20 x 1km loops and there are 5 grades, A - E, with E being the slowest. I think noobs have to start in E or D for their first race. Do I just start at the back, wait for someone to make a move and then go with them? At what stage do people normally make a break, only towards the end or it can be whenever? Are they normally close to flat out the whole way with the faster guys trying to wear out the slower guys?


There's some seriously dubious advice here, but some good information, too. In general, listen to what RONDAL, trail, and GingerAvenger have to say. The macho hubris exhibited by most of the others is typical of the people that think they know it all because they're "triathlon fit," but are really just folks real racers are trying to avoid so they can get on with things. And more than anything, try to relax and observe the race as it unfolds. You'll learn a lot by watching what others do. And have fun. If you're stressed and hate it you'll never be motivated to do more and improve.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
woodys737 wrote:
trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5


Why not?


+2. 5 to go is when the race is on. Fight or lose.




ON lap 5 not 5 to go, big difference.

Yes 5 to go if you are not at the front you never will be.

Ok I'm with you now. Will go back to reading comprehension 101 now...:-)
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
woodys737 wrote:
trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5


Why not?


+2. 5 to go is when the race is on. Fight or lose.




ON lap 5 not 5 to go, big difference.

Yes 5 to go if you are not at the front you never will be.

I'll give you an example of this NOT being true, but keep in mind it's course-specific and in a teamwork scenario.

This was in the district championship criterium some years ago at Seward Park (southeast Seattle on Lake Washington), an oft-used loop for the weekly Thursday Night Worlds. Anyway, it's a 1K loop with only one real turn, a tight acute hairpin. We were running counter-clockwise, so there was a long gentle incline with a sweeping wide right hand bend leading into that tight left-hand turn. On the last lap, instead of taking the turn we ran straight to the finish line.

On EVERY lap, I watched everyone bunch up on the right side of the road, both for the shortest distance around that bend, but also to line up for the widest line into the left turn. And I could make up half the field easily on each of these laps by going wide on the sweeper and then getting into position for the leftie. Just that one short section of road. On a couple of laps I went from near last to near first on that sweeper, everyone left the outside line so open.

So I had a really strong team mate, good long-sprinter type, and we were gunning for him to do well at this race. With two laps to go he's beside me near the back of the pack. And he's getting jumpy. I tell him, relax, stay with me, it'll work. We cruise through to the bell, just chilling. He's going "Dave, we have to go now!" I tell him to relax and just be ready to follow my wheel, he'll know when to take over. We hit the bottom of the course and things start to bunch up as we sweep left, still near the back of the pack. "Dave!?!?" "Chill!"

As the road swept right again, sure enough, EVERY ONE was bunching up on the right, looking for a wheel. I launched with Brian on my wheel. When I cleared the front, I swept right making sure I had enough gap to not cross any wheels, and he took off straight for the finish line. I let the pack swallow me up, so I didn't see just how much gap he ended up with at the line, but it wasn't even close.

And he had his whole family there to see it. It was one of my most memorable races, even ahead of my own wins.

That's not to say this would work all the time, or even most of the time. In fact, it's pretty rare. But knowing the course, watching what's happening and where people are going can reap great rewards. And sometimes not actually winning can be very rewarding.

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Re: Crit racing tips needed [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
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assumption
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
turningscrews wrote:
Trauma wrote:
Quick clip in is key, or front row start. I have had a crit that was literally over in the first 10seconds because I had a 4th row start and the few guys around me in front of me struggle to clip in


I think an equally important skill is feeling comfortable riding a few hundred meters when you are not clipped in but still stepping on the pedal. This is easy with most look style cleats & even speedplay. That way if you don’t get clipped in immediately, you aren’t a sitting duck.

So most crits go flat out from the start?

Whether they do or not, I’d rather be moving backwards through the field while moving than standing still & watching them ride away. I’ve done 100’s of crits & it is crazy how many cleats you hear engage in the first 100 meters, as the pack is moving.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
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First up, cheers for all the advice, much appreciated! Race was good fun, very different. There were probably about 35 racers, a mix of D, E and U16, probably about 10 fit looking guys. First lap was quick and there was a 500m incline into a strong headwind that was tough, but after a few laps the pace dropped right down to about 35km/hr, 22mph.

I was positioned about 10th, which felt about right and the pace felt comfortable, probably too slow. I was riding with 3 other guys from my tri club and at lap 5 (of 17?) me and one other guy attacked. Up till then, no-one had gone and it was starting to feel like a casual coffee ride. We hammered it for a lap or so, but surprisingly barely made much of a gap and the chasing pack quickly caught us up as we eased off the pedal (HR was maxed out). I sat back for a few more laps, very few serious attacks, so I waited until we hit the incline/wind and people were working hard and had another go by myself, I couldn't see my mates to let them know.

Obviously attacking by yourself is a no, no, but I kind of wanted to try a few things. I don't think sitting at the back the entire race and sprinting the last 200m was going to teach me much? I made a small gap, but again was quickly caught by the pack as soon as I slowed. Considering how out of shape some guys looked it's amazing barely anyone was dropped. A few laps later another guy attacked by himself and I went with him 30s later. Again no effect. So I settled back down again, near the front, letting some others do the work.

I was told there would be a 2 lap warning, then a final bell, but apparently the 2 lap warning came after we passed, so when the final bell went I wasn't sure if that was the final bell or the warning for 2nd lap, so I asked a few people and eventually established it was the final lap with 800m to go. I wasn't in a great position, maybe 8th, but with a couple of tight corners to get round. Then we almost got taken out by one of the U16 kids and that pushed a few of us wide as we approached the final bend, coming out of the bend I was 5th and ended up either 3rd or 4th. Not sure yet. The 2 guys who finished in front of me didn't look fit and had been at the back the whole race, but obviously got their tactics sorted out!

One of the other guys from my club dropped a chain so he was out of it, the other finished just behind me. I'm glad I had those attacks despite them being ineffectual, I don't think they really had a negative impact on my race. If I'd known we were approaching the last lap I could have got myself in a much better position, rookie error. And I think (correct me if I'm wrong) you need to attack with more than 2? So definitely a steep learning curve. I'm not sure I want to race just sitting at the back and then attacking the final lap, just got to figure out how to attack effectively earlier on. Av speed was 25mph, max speed was 33mph. Definitely want to have another race. Was awesome fun!
Last edited by: zedzded: Feb 10, 18 18:35
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Great post. I was sure you were going to tell a crash story. Criteriums are pure mayhem. I may have to seek out a masters race. I miss that.
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