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Re: Crit racing tips needed [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5

Why not?
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing is black and white or 100% but just a couple ideas to think about. Most of these are more applicable to being solo in a race with no team mates or with team mates who have no idea how to race:


-Using energy and momentum in corners by staying on the outside is a good way to move up.

-Don't be the first to attack, or the second...follow moves but, try not to get excited and put your nose into the wind early. Let others burn matches.

-If you have to close a gap close it quick. Don't be the guy that pulls the rest of the field. If you work everyone works is the idea.

-If you want to try an attack do it just after the previous one was caught and the pace is still hard. Come from a number of places back and use momentum to sling you out from the group. It's easy to go to hard and find yourself solo which may be good or bad depending on your fitness and the rest of the group dynamics. But, generally it's nice to make a break with a couple guys to share the load.

-Many flat crits if not much wind or super small fields come down to a sprint. So focus on sprinting in training...

-Usually there is a lap board with say 5 to go. As the laps dwindle the pace will usually get higher so staying close to the front conserves energy (in general) and keeps you out of trouble (in general). Honestly, at this point guys are so worried about conserving energy and staying in the draft they will do anything to suck wheel. Sometimes it takes energy to save energy so if your in the wind to stay up front momentarily I think that's ok. Also, this is a super ballsy time to try a break. How's your VO2 power?

-Visualize where you want to be in the last lap/last corner/start of your sprint. Knowing approximately how long you can sprint is key. 15 seconds? 30? How far does that work out to be on the course? Find a landmark and use it to help time the sprint (perfect world). Usually the sprint is very messy and you have to adapt...it's fun.

-Finally, anticipate the surge and start your sprint before it even if it set you up for a long one.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5


Why not?

+2. 5 to go is when the race is on. Fight or lose.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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"Be dubious about anyone who yells hold your line, they are probably the person who is not"

Heh...I remember in cat 5/4 races, everyone thinks they are a pro and everyone was yelling at everyone else who clearly was an idiot. In masters races, it was eerily quiet other than the sounds of the rubber on the road.

If someone comes past you don't jump on their wheel without checking if someone is already there.

Don't watch the wheel right in front of you, watch the guys in front of them.

At the finish, don't sprint for 30th place.


To the OP, make sure you do a race report and post it here. Probably the most useful info for new racers is to hear the experience of someone else doing their first race.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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stevie g wrote:
Be dubious about anyone who yells hold your line, they are probably the person who is not

Sort of. They are usually the one who refuses to adjust their position according to others movements and are likely to get their wheel chopped.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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If you don't have any road racing experience, just try and finish with the bunch. watch out for stupid people, ride safe and observe how the race dynamics play out. Prepare to suffer.

If you have road racing experience, stay near the front and cover the attacks you think might stick.

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [MTBSully] [ In reply to ]
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Have you recently done any really hard interval training? Like 30s to 1min at 200%+ repeatedly?

I'd also recommend making yourself a safe custom segment in Strava in a neighborhood of about a Crit course style/length and doing some crap hard workouts on it.

How's your sprint? Can you pop out a 1000w+ sprint after a tough training ride? Like the taste of what you ate for lunch?
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Tons of great info in here!

I am not sure if it has been said but really try not to ride your "nice" gear or bike. I see guys trash big dollar bikes and gear all the time and cant fork out the cash to replace it. I raced a lot when I was younger and had a dedicated Steel bike that has a lot of battle scars on it now! Your $10,000 bike wont really be much faster than a fairly light $2000 aluminum or steel bike

Try to stay in the first 1/4 of the group and stay in the center if possible - make sure to go and practice wide fast sweeping corners and get use to that feeling. It is also important that you "flow" well with the peloton, everyone has a different riding style and you are going to constantly be battling for placement and position. Be sure to keep your confidence high and not get discouraged, I generally didn't bother with the breakaways until they started happening around the last half of the race.

Remember its for fun - don't wad it up!
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [G-man] [ In reply to ]
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Fair point, the elastic effect is something to keep in mind...

The rule I always followed was that if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward in the pack... If you are using the race for training, tail gunning is a great way to get a workout. I find when I race training crits, if they get too sketchy from people doing stupid stuff at the front, I'll sit on the back, and toe dropped riders back up, and get a good interval session, without the risk of the chaos upfront...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [MTBSully] [ In reply to ]
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FINALLY a topic i can actually add value to; Cat1/2 crit racer checking in.

None of these are secrets but its amazing how much people forget and dont do:
- warm up properly and be ready to go from the gun, this isn't a 160km road ride and its not going to have neutral laps to get the pedals turning
- LINE UP ON THE FRONT LINE. if this means getting to the start 5min earlier than you think is necessary fine. you warmed up properly remember. being first off the line avoids so many issues. you dont have to worry about people failing to clip in, you have clear road, and you'll be in the top 10-12 riders for the first lap just because of your initial position. This helps you get a feel for the tempo and pace and you won't be starting off on your back foot so to speak
- POSITION MATTERS. if this is cat5 people are going to attack too often and too much. it's not your job to chase, but you do need to be able to see the surge coming. It's amazing how much more efficiently you can ride when you can see the attack go, you can select the right gear, and you can gently wind up the power to match the surge, rather than having to do an explosive sprint just to catch the wheel.
- STAY OFF THE FRONT. It's cat5....let some other idiot take a pull. They'll be more than happy to do it
- Leave a small gap as you enter a turn. Slow in fast out. No need to be inches from the wheel in front of you heading into the turn. If your position is good you can let the wheel go ever so slightly, not enough to let anyone in, but enough that you dont have to jam on the pedals coming out of the turn and sprint out of each turn. This saves energy, again removes a lot of the accordian, and as you then brake less through the turn you carry more speed out and right back into the slipstream.
- You are responsible for your front wheel. You overlap it on someone else and they move, that's on you. Make sure you keep your front wheel clean and avoid going down
- Make yourself big. Elbows out, knees out. These give you space to move. They also keep people away from you and from taking the wheel you are following. Don't be afraid to make your presence felt if someone is encroaching. You would be amazed how many people just give up wheels because is move against them.
- Don't move up when everyone is sprinting. Make it easy on yourself to move up, do it when the least amount of effort is required. If there is a lull (and there will be lots in cat5) move up. If there is a surge and it dies, pedal through. 3 seconds of extra work can effortlessly move you up 20 spots because others decided to stop working.
- know what the start finish looks like and make sure you know your markers. If you're a sprinter you'll be doing this multiple times pre-race. Know where 200m and 100m to go is. Find the tree, the billboard, the line on the road. Know where those are so you dont go too early.
- You dont have a 400m sprint. You dont have a 300m sprint. You likely dont even have a 150m sprint. Check your ego and be patient. He who goes early loses.
- BE PATIENT. The race isn't won on lap 5 but it can be lost on lap 5. Your goal is to finish as high up as possible and do the least amount of work as possible to get there. Even waiting 1 extra second when a gap forms and allowing someone else to close it is so much easier than doing it yourself.
- Hydrate. Cat5 races are only 35min-40min generally, with even cat1 being 70-80 max. You still need to drink. Take advantage of the lulls to drink, do it early, do it often. It makes a difference.

When it comes to actual tactics, break vs. bunch sprint, you need to know what kind of rider you are.
If you dont have a sprint but you've got a big engine, you need to make other people work. This means attacking. Let others do it early on, let them wind the group up, and as they bring them back and the group lulls, YOU GO. You go when no one else wants to. This is going to fail more than once most likely. But you attack after other attack and eventually they will let you go. Someone won't want to chase, someone will leave a gap, someone wont want to close it, away you go. Get ready to settle in to a very uncomfortable spot. The best attacks I have seen happen about mid-way to 3/4 through the race. This is when the will to chase starts to break down and people start getting tired. If there are teams though this is going to be difficult as they will have sacrificial lambs who are solely there to control the break and chase. Cat5...everyone for themselves.

If you have a bunch sprint you want to be no further back than 8th if the final turn is 250m or less from the finish. Work backwards from there and figure out how to get into that position by then. If you need to be 8th or better by last turn you likely need to be 12th or better heading into the final lap. Which means you cant be dicking around with 2 laps to go when the pace starts to lift. Follow wheels smartly, keep your head out of the wind until your set point, go.


Crits aren't about doing one thing right, they are about doing lots of little things right. You do enough of the above correctly and more often than not you'll wind up doing better than most.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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crits are the X-games for mid life crisis masters
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [RONDAL] [ In reply to ]
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RONDAL wrote:

- STAY OFF THE FRONT.

Depends. If you're in a break and refusing to pull, that's a good way to get attacked and bounced from the break.

Even in the field, if you want to stay in the top 5-6 riders and you find the leader rider in front of you just pulled off, it's *OK* to pull through, and then over. To keep a nice flow at the front going. Sometimes nothing pisses people off more than the guy who's constantly trying to stay right at the front but refuses to pull through. If that little effort of pulling through is going to hurt you, you don't really belong in the first 5-6 riders.

In both cases I find it's better to appear to be doing a little work, without actually doing much at all.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Lot's of good advice and some advice I'd not follow. But, everyone races differently and what works for some won't for others.

My thoughts ...

This is your first crit, you're learning to crit race. Try stuff, your end result does not matter. Attack, go for a prime, start a break, follow a break, sit in, whatever. Ultimately, have fun.

Be predictable. Don't yell.

Everyone says, "don't use your brakes" ... in reality, you're gonna have to use your brakes, so be in a position where you can access your brakes. Everyone has the best intentions of rolling through the turns at speed and brake free, but all it takes is one guy coming off his line or not pedaling through or freewheeling just a bit longer than others to completely change the speed of the group.

Be able to clip in to your pedals quickly on the first go. Happens in every race, even P12 races and it doesn't really hurt your race, just adds some anxiety for the first 30s of the race if you feel like you're already chasing.

If the course isn't technical, no need to start on the front. The race is long enough to move up. If you feel like you need to start on the front line because you don't want to fall too far back you might not have the bike skills to hold your position on the front.

Crits can be surgy, they can be slow, they can be full gas ... if you feel like you're about to get dropped, hold on a few more seconds because the pace will drop.

Enjoy it and have fun.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Trail gave some very good advice, and others are right in that most crits are very unpredictable.

One thing I would like to point out is that while it is super important to stay near the front, such as the top 25%, you have to realize that over 50% of the field has that exact same goal. The riders who are most able to consistently stay in the top 25% are the ones who are actually willing to make their way to the front every once in a while. It is super difficult to just stay 10 wheels back for the majority of the race because as guys come off the front, if you leave gaps to let them back in front of you, that's usually when others behind you see an opportunity to move up.

So as already mentioned, if you find yourself at the front, don't be a hero. Just keep the pace steady and pull off after a few seconds. Just don't pull off right before a corner because you'll have a sub optimal line into the corner, and nobody is going to let you in as they want to take the optimal line and respond to the acceleration coming out of the corner.

As you gain more experience, you start to get a feel for where the most important parts of the course it is to be near the front. Usually in the most technical sections, or if there is a slight hill. Some courses allow you to fall back a bit and easily make your way up when you need to...and others you just have to be near the front the whole time.

Good luck and have fun.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [RONDAL] [ In reply to ]
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RONDAL wrote:
- LINE UP ON THE FRONT LINE. if this means getting to the start 5min earlier than you think is necessary fine. you warmed up properly remember. being first off the line avoids so many issues. you dont have to worry about people failing to clip in, you have clear road, and you'll be in the top 10-12 riders for the first lap just because of your initial position. This helps you get a feel for the tempo and pace and you won't be starting off on your back foot so to speak

Good advice for someone with experience but the last thing I want in a race is a triathlete in his first race lining up on the front row and sprinting to the first corner. Learning to crit race is largely about learning to corner faster than you think you can.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I would like to point out is that while it is super important to stay near the front, such as the top 25%, you have to realize that over 50% of the field has that exact same goal.

Yes! While there are times where it will be like a parade and everyone with just stay in line for a while, much of the time you actually have to be constantly moving up just to stay in the same spot near the front. You can end up at the back just by not fighting for wheels, letting a guy in now and then to get a draft or losing one place every corner. Many a newbie crit racer has been thinking things were going just fine "near the front" only to turn around a few laps later to see they were in last place ;-)
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [STP] [ In reply to ]
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If you're going to the race alone, make sure there is somebody there who has your emergency contact info, any pertinent medical information, etc...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that. CAT5 slash beginner crits tend to have more crashes than the p12 because of the experience level..

Beyond that, as many of stated, just have fun on this first one and learn. Don't worry about winning, unless the field is so weak that you can just right away using your triathlete Fitness (that won't happen)
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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davejustdave wrote:
If you're going to the race alone, make sure there is somebody there who has your emergency contact info, any pertinent medical information, etc...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that
. CAT5 slash beginner crits tend to have more crashes than the p12 because of the experience level..

Beyond that, as many of stated, just have fun on this first one and learn. Don't worry about winning, unless the field is so weak that you can just right away using your triathlete Fitness (that won't happen)

Perhaps because you have to enter it to get a license (USA) and/or 1 day on waiver/release. Not sure in GBR but, assume it's common.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [woodys737] [ In reply to ]
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woodys737 wrote:
davejustdave wrote:
If you're going to the race alone, make sure there is somebody there who has your emergency contact info, any pertinent medical information, etc...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that
. CAT5 slash beginner crits tend to have more crashes than the p12 because of the experience level..

Beyond that, as many of stated, just have fun on this first one and learn. Don't worry about winning, unless the field is so weak that you can just right away using your triathlete Fitness (that won't happen)

Perhaps because you have to enter it to get a license (USA) and/or 1 day on waiver/release. Not sure in GBR but, assume it's common.

Fair enough. Do you also have to do that at triathlons, but many of us have seen people scrambling looking for that information after crashes.

Redundancy never hurts when it comes to this type of stuff
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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If this is your first, then your main goal should be to come out the other end with the same amount of skin and paint that you went in with. So as others said.

1. Stay toward the front both for safety and to avoid the accordion that will spit you off the back.

2. Protect your front wheel. You are going to overlap at one point or another, important thing is to not hang out in someone's blind spot. If you are not fully behind then you should be working to being right next to. Better to take a hip check than a wheel bump.

3. I like to plan my corners. That means I am either directly behind someone on a predictable line, or if I have to go in 2-4 wide that I am right next to the other guys and it is obvious which line is mine. If you are inside then stick inside, outside don't try to bomb inside at the end of the corner. No one is making money off this race so ride predictably and don't be a dick. Being a dick is a great way to get dropped or worse.

4. Effort level you should put in really depends on the race, number of riders, and course. If the race is 20 minutes long it is going to be much harder than if it was 40 minutes long. In a 20 minute race no one is afraid to burn matches cause they figure they can hold on for that long so it will start fast, be fast, and end fast. In a 40 minute race it will often start fast to get rid of the slow riders and hopefully the triathletes. Lots of surges and max power efforts for the first 10 minutes. Once the peloton has shed the undesirables it will slow for 15-20 minutes, people might try breaks but they often don't stick. Then the last 10 minutes is a ramp up to get rid of more riders or to make sure there are fewer riders in the sprint. The peloton won't go at an easy pace then sprint at the last minute of the race. Better to have the weaker riders right on the edge so when the sprint does happen they are quickly left behind.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [ctflower] [ In reply to ]
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Quick clip in is key, or front row start. I have had a crit that was literally over in the first 10seconds because I had a 4th row start and the few guys around me in front of me struggle to clip in, so we were way down from the gun (on a narrow and technical course)... In that case it was a stage race, so the goal became not getting lapped until the cut off point to be able to start the last stage...

As for the part about being in a break... Yes, you should contribute in a break (if someone in cat 5 is "saving their legs for the sprint" while the rest of the break rotates they should honestly be put in the ditch... unless it's a team game, and they have 3 guys in the break, two doing monster work, while the other sits in...). But to be honest, in cat 5, you shouldn't be breaking away until the last 1/3 of the race... because the odds of success are so low... If you actually are entertaining the idea of a result, I would let others flex their muscles and then either wait for the bunch sprint, or if you know that's not good for you, trying a late break...

The key to any road racing, crit or otherwise is knowing how good you're not (moreso than knowing how good you are)... I know for me, that I am unlikely to win a bunch sprint, without a lot of other people making mistakes (I've had some podium finishes in bunch sprints in one case losing by less than an inch... but not because of my sprinting prowess... they were because someone else made a huge error which took most of the stronger sprinters out of contention in the last corner...), so for me I need to be sprinting from a select group to have a reasonable shot a result, or I am better off helping to lead out a teammate... But you learn that from experience... My only crit win came from a perfectly timed solo break, taking a risk late in the race, when the weather quickly deteriorated and where the numbers had been diminished to the point where the only team with decent numbers left in the race was mine (and I could make that move realizing that if I got pegged back, it would set one of my teammates up for the win...).
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
RONDAL wrote:

- STAY OFF THE FRONT.


Depends. If you're in a break and refusing to pull, that's a good way to get attacked and bounced from the break.

Even in the field, if you want to stay in the top 5-6 riders and you find the leader rider in front of you just pulled off, it's *OK* to pull through, and then over. To keep a nice flow at the front going. Sometimes nothing pisses people off more than the guy who's constantly trying to stay right at the front but refuses to pull through. If that little effort of pulling through is going to hurt you, you don't really belong in the first 5-6 riders.

In both cases I find it's better to appear to be doing a little work, without actually doing much at all.

100% agree, The quick roll off is key. Roll up with the lull, roll through on a soft pedal. You were on the front, you did "work", you expended little to no energy.
This also saves you from the washing machine pulling you from 8th wheel to 28th as a group rolls through.
My comment was made more with the intent to remind folks to not pull if they dont have to. I see so many new riders go to the front and drill it for extended periods of time for no reason. They get used, abused, and dropped.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [A-A-Ron] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Protect your front wheel.


This video is instructive. While folks generally try pretty hard to hold a straight line on group rides and people generally ride directly abreast but in races all bets are off so do not overlap wheels. You can't always be exactly abreast of the guys next to you but recognize that there is death zone between a slight overlap and where you are far enough forward to put an elbow into someone's hip if they start moving over on you. There are lots of points in a race where you either need to go backwards or forwards because staying where you are is risky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJr69MBg6-U




Last edited by: STP: Feb 8, 18 11:23
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [I ride Fuji's] [ In reply to ]
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I ride Fuji's wrote:
Take off the aerobars....

LOL! This is the best advice so far.

Back in the day, a buddy of mine and I would intentionally sit at the back and talk out loud about the next prime (I always wanted the 80's version of the Hello Kitty helmet) or if it was time to go get an ice cream cone (short for "Let's get the f-off the front").
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Stay on the inside (left) part of the road. Those roundabouts are going to be trouble. People will be running into the curbs (or braking hard to avoid them) and crashing often - especially in the first few laps.

If it were me, I'd work very hard to stay at the very front (left side) for the first few laps. So, you need to crank it for the first 5 laps, hang on for the next 10, then crank it again for the last 5.
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