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Couldn't finish my yasso 800's
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I decided to take this year off from IM training to focus on getting faster at running.
So I am following a finish at 3:30 marathon plan in preparation for Philly in November.
Todays workout called for a 2 mile WU then 5-6 yasso 800's at 3:30, then 2 miles easy
I was only able to finish 3 of them before i was smoked and unable to do the rest.
Should i continue at this pace with my 800's and allow myself to adapt or slow the pace enough to be able to finish them all?

all other workouts (long runs, hill repeats, etc..) i can handle just fine




.

Yellowfin Endurance Coaching and Bike Fits
USAT Level 1, USAC Level 3
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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Bart Yasso is a chump

One dude's opinion

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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I think the point of Yasso 800's is that generally, if you intend to run 26.2 at a steady 8:00/mile pace (3:30), you OUGHT to be able to run a bunch of 800 repeats at 7:00/mile pace.

That's the theory, however, a multitude of factors can change whether or not it's going to work out: previous training load, fatigue, the way you feel on the day, et cetera. They're not gospel, just a handy rule of thumb for the kind of speed you ought to possess.

-Eric
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [EricTheBiking] [ In reply to ]
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If you are trying to hold 8:00/mile for 26.2, it seems like the track may not be the best way to accomplish that goal.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in Philly and completed my last marathon at a 3:30 pace. Let me know if you want to do a long run on a Sunday.

It could be a fueling issue...or just as off day with the 800's.
Last edited by: LifeTri: Sep 6, 17 8:33
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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kjmcawesome wrote:
If you are trying to hold 8:00/mile for 26.2, it seems like the track may not be the best way to accomplish that goal.

No, of course, obviously. It's not a marathon workout, but a measuring stick.

-E
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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Try it again next week, maybe you're just having an off day. Maybe try the 800s at 3:40 next time and if that's doable, do that for a couple weeks and then revisit the 3:30s.
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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Funny enough my 800's are the exact same as yours (3:30). I always thought they were comically easy, but my open marathon time is complete shit (3:55). As others have said, it's a lot more complicated than just how many 800's you can do in a row at a certain pace.
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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It looks like you are doing a common mistake with your YASSO, it is that you are targeting the pace and not the time for your 800m reps:

"Named after Runner’s World’s Bart Yasso, Yasso 800s are a marathon predictor workout. You run repetitions of 800 meters in the minutes and seconds of your goal marathon hours and minutes."

So if your target at the marathon is 3h30, you need to do your 800 meters in 3 minutes and 30 seconds, NOT at 3:30 pace.

That means you should target your 800 meters at a pace of 4:23 for a kilometer, that way you will achieve your 800 meter in 3:30.
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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LifeTri wrote:
I'm in Philly and completed my last marathon at a 3:30 pace. Let me know if you want to do a long run on a Sunday.

It could be a fueling issue...or just as off day with the 800's.

Thanks, but Im actually in Ocean City. Doing Whirly Bird cross on Sunday

Yellowfin Endurance Coaching and Bike Fits
USAT Level 1, USAC Level 3
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [karmakomae] [ In reply to ]
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I doubt he is doing the 800s at 3:30/mile pace, the world record for 800m is about a 3:20/mile pace (1:40.91).
Last edited by: iruntrails: Sep 6, 17 9:13
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [iruntrails] [ In reply to ]
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iruntrails wrote:
I doubt he is doing the 800s at 3:30 pace, the world record for 800m is about a 3:20/mile pace.

Sorry I'm using the metric system (you know, Canada....)

Converted in miles, the target pace should then be 7:03 a mile instead of a 5:30 a mile
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [karmakomae] [ In reply to ]
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karmakomae wrote:
"Named after Runner’s World’s Bart Yasso ..."

I think you're supposed to put "Chief Running Officer" in there someplace? Bart Yasso kind of insists on being identified that way

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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according to Yasso you should start with four repeats - did the program start with these or throw you into the 5-6 repeats ?

here's the original Amby Burfoot article,
https://www.runnersworld.com/...ry-of-the-yasso-800s

I'd be inclined to try to hold pace for as many repeats as you can, and hope to adapt.
If you can't complete the set of 10 repeats on the schedule/program, it would probably be a good idea to adapt your goal marathon time..
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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Are you doing equal rest (complete walk for 3:30)?

I was able to do them in 3:10 when training for a 3:10:00, first time I did them with full rest, then my next marathon I did them as cruise intervals with recovery pace rest, but 6 intervals instead of 8. I don't really know if/why it is an accurate predictor, but it helped with confidence.

However, in the middle of marathon training, you might not be recovered enough from your last workout to complete them. There are a lot of variables when you are constantly in a state of being beaten down by marathon training, and this is harder than a normal speed session during a marathon build.

Besides the Yasso 800s, what other sources of marathon predictors have you used? McMillan running calculator was pretty spot on for me, using other race distances as a gauge. If you can run a 10 miler or half marathon race soon, that would be a much better predictor (also factor in elevation profiles and altitude).
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [fishybike] [ In reply to ]
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fishybike wrote:
Are you doing equal rest (complete walk for 3:30)?

I was able to do them in 3:10 when training for a 3:10:00, first time I did them with full rest, then my next marathon I did them as cruise intervals with recovery pace rest, but 6 intervals instead of 8. I don't really know if/why it is an accurate predictor, but it helped with confidence.

However, in the middle of marathon training, you might not be recovered enough from your last workout to complete them. There are a lot of variables when you are constantly in a state of being beaten down by marathon training, and this is harder than a normal speed session during a marathon build.

So I do speed work once a week, preparing for Chicago, rotating 400's and 800's. I wasn't doing Yasso's but I find myself doing the 800's usually around 3:12, and then I do 3:00 rest at 9:30-10:30 pace. Does that mean I'd have a realistic shot at a 3:12 marathon?? I don't need to go that fast, my goal was actually 3:20.

Sorry, didn't mean to steal the thread...
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [iruntrails] [ In reply to ]
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iruntrails wrote:
I doubt he is doing the 800s at 3:30/mile pace, the world record for 800m is about a 3:20/mile pace (1:40.91).

maybe this thread can be sent over to marathoninvestigation
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [MJGuswiler] [ In reply to ]
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MJGuswiler wrote:
fishybike wrote:
Are you doing equal rest (complete walk for 3:30)?

I was able to do them in 3:10 when training for a 3:10:00, first time I did them with full rest, then my next marathon I did them as cruise intervals with recovery pace rest, but 6 intervals instead of 8. I don't really know if/why it is an accurate predictor, but it helped with confidence.

However, in the middle of marathon training, you might not be recovered enough from your last workout to complete them. There are a lot of variables when you are constantly in a state of being beaten down by marathon training, and this is harder than a normal speed session during a marathon build.

So I do speed work once a week, preparing for Chicago, rotating 400's and 800's. I wasn't doing Yasso's but I find myself doing the 800's usually around 3:12, and then I do 3:00 rest at 9:30-10:30 pace. Does that mean I'd have a realistic shot at a 3:12 marathon?? I don't need to go that fast, my goal was actually 3:20.

Sorry, didn't mean to steal the thread...

Maybe? I just don't think the Yasso thing is that accurate. It maybe tells you you have the speed to handle that pace but I think a tune-up half marathon, or even a recent 10k race result would tell you a lot more if you plug the time in to McMillan.
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [fishybike] [ In reply to ]
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My opinion...

The Yasso 800s don't tell you what you can do. And they are not particularly good training either (too short/ too much rest).

What Yasso 800s do show - is what you CANNOT do.
If you CANNOT run 8 x 800 in 2:50-
you CANNOT run a 2:50 marathon.
If you CANNOT run 8 X 800 in 3:15 - you CANNOT run a 3:15 marathon.
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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Good, you shouldn't be doing Yassso 800s anyway. They are worthless.

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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Never heard of this....

Title looked as if you couldn't finish building your wheelset, or didn't finish eating your dessert.
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
My opinion...

The Yasso 800s don't tell you what you can do. And they are not particularly good training either (too short/ too much rest).

What Yasso 800s do show - is what you CANNOT do.
If you CANNOT run 8 x 800 in 2:50-
you CANNOT run a 2:50 marathon.
If you CANNOT run 8 X 800 in 3:15 - you CANNOT run a 3:15 marathon.

I've run a marathon in 2:39 and I can guarant-god-dang-tee you that I never did 10x800 in 2:39. The "workout" is nothing but horsedoody of the highest order. Anyone doing them is wasting their time and there's way more productive ways to prep for a marathon.

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [karmakomae] [ In reply to ]
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Spot on. Unless he meant 3:30 marathon pace

Andrew Garwood
http://www.2xu.com
http://www.newtonrunning.com
http://www.ascendsport.com.au
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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Instead use your long run to improve your strength endurance and ability to maintain form.
2 hour run broken into 30mins chunks
First 30mins easy
2nd 30mins 15sec/km faster
3rd 30mins 15secs faster /km faster then 2nd block
Last 30mins your best effort.

Adjust pacing to your needs.
For example
30mins @ 4:15 /km
30mins @ 4 /kM
30mins @ 3:45/km
30mins @ 3:30 or better

This is my favorite workout 3 weeks out

Andrew Garwood
http://www.2xu.com
http://www.newtonrunning.com
http://www.ascendsport.com.au
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Re: Couldn't finish my yasso 800's [garwood] [ In reply to ]
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I just did my first sub 20/5km - 19.47, so 3.57 pace. But could barely manage that pace for 400m intervals and could only manage 4min/km for 1km intervals. Obviously had me concerned - how can I run 5km all under 4min/pace when I can't even manage 1km at that pace with a rest....

Not sure why that is, I'm guessing a lot of variables to consider. Perhaps I just need to work harder in training, but I try solo and would most likely do better if training with others. I do race quicker, found it easy to sit behind someone at 3.55 pace, couldn't do that in training.
Last edited by: zedzded: Sep 6, 17 20:32
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