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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [ZackC.] [ In reply to ]
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ZackC. wrote:
The days of short folks winning are over. If we went head to head, I would be over a foot behind Phelps or Lochte or Grevers the instant we unfold off the blocks, simply because their reach is that much larger. Last I looks no man under 6'0 owned a WR in swimming lcm.

Swimming in my hometown is ridiculously competitive. Ricky Berens went to a rival high school. My team *only* had D1-caliber swimmers on it.


how tall is tae hwan park? he appears to be bang on 6ft but he is one of the best in the world over 200m and 400m free. lots of breaststrokers are not that tall height wise...kitajima is not tall.

some of the fastest guys in the world are not that big..clement lefert of the french gold medal winning 4x100 free team is only 1.85m and 68kgs, then again, some are massive. i always used to think cameron van der burgh was massive as well, but turns out he isn't


http://www.london2012.com/...ert-clement-1121583/

also mike barrowman former 200 breast world record holder (and one of the instigators of much of the breast style we see these days) was only 5ft11. he swam 200m breast faster than 99.5% of this board swim 200m free
Last edited by: fulla: Aug 2, 12 2:29
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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Park is 5'10; As for Lefert, 1.85m=6'1. Van def Burgh is only 1cm shorter than lefert.

Kitajima is 5'10, and he lost to Gyurta who is 6'0. I'm telling you...you have to be tall to be a fast swimmer---6-foot is basically the cutoff for the Men's podium. For every exception, I can point out 10 guys that do fit the bill.

Even if a Mugsy Bogues came along, nobody would believe that the performances weren't doped...what a shitty realization...

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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [ZackC.] [ In reply to ]
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with lefert, he is only the size of many top triathletes..ie 67kgs, he is not that tall in the scheme of sprinters...ie 15cms (maybe more?) shorter than someone like agnell, and he went sub 48secs for 100 free in the relay (based on the very quick maths i did). there are super muscly sprinters, than there are the ones who look like greyhounds (who are usually more of a 100/200 mix as opposed to 50/100)

if people who are 5ft11 to 6ft1 can swim that fast, there is no reason why others slightly shorter can't swim really fast also - ie when you hear triathletes complain they can't swim fast cos they aren't big enough. and then you have some of the girls, who aren't exactly big at all (and some who are...)

(my excuse is i have chick hands hah)
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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If I was like Shaq and got a 125m head start.

king of the road says you move too slow
KING OF THE ROAD SAYS YOU MOVE TOO SLOW
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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Answers to questions and a few comments...

1.) An elite ST 4x50 relay probably beats Phelps -- the ex-WR ave pace was 25.7 -- if we cut the exchanges close.
2.) ZackC.'s fin-aided 47 sec over 100 yard pace wouldn't keep up with Phelps first 100 pace. (~43.90/100scy)
3.) 100meter w/ fins = yeah baby! 200meter w/ fins = OMG, I can't feel my legs!
4.) At those speeds triathlon pros aren't helping us much -- too weak.
5.) Snorkel? Forget the snorkel.
6.) Wetsuits aren't optimized for pool swimming, but I think in a 50m pool you'd be better off wearing a good one. (Just my guess)
7.) Maybe Ye Shiwen will start posting here soon, and we'll have more of a chance. =)
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [SH] [ In reply to ]
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I think that probably only Gary Hall Sr could manage a 25.7 LCM. I can't think of any other former world class swimmers on here, but that is the kind of time that even a well-trained elite triathlete couldn't likely do without a month or more of dedicated speed work. Now a 4x50 relay that gets fins...that could pull if off. To be fair though, Phelps went that time in a LZR. He is more like 1:45 now, which is a more pedestrian 1:33 or 1:32 in scy. Rested, I could pull off a 46 with fins and a really nice suit I'm sure, but there would be no 2nd 100 for me, whereas Phelps goes on to make it look easy. Truly incredible what he does.

If I get both legs amputated after a horrible accident, I'll make sure I get some bitchin foot prosthetics that work like fins and that make me a foot taller. Then I'll go bitch to the IOC about how I should be allowed to compete.
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [ZackC.] [ In reply to ]
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As luck would have it, I went 25.65 LCM last month. =)
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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if people who are 5ft11 to 6ft1 can swim that fast, there is no reason why others slightly shorter can't swim really fast also - ie when you hear triathletes complain they can't swim fast cos they aren't big enough. and then you have some of the girls, who aren't exactly big at all (and some who are...)
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This is one big logical fallacy though. I've already explained how height is a disadvantage the instant the race starts. There is no shortage of people who swim really fast. It is the tall ones who also swim really fast that win medals though. Short people lose out on start length, distance per stroke, kick propulsion, and probably form drag too---as I said to someone else, there are a few exceptions (I.e guys that are a 5'11-6'0), but for every one of them there are ten guys closer to 6'4. Those guys that are 6' or less are exceptions. Their body barely let's them compete at that level. They are compensating for it with either better than elite technique or training. The slippery slope argument doesn't work on me...just because one 5'11 dude wins one medal does not mean that someone who is 5'6 has even a prayer of winning.

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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [ZackC.] [ In reply to ]
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I agree on the height issue.

However, let's not mix up a triathlon swim and world class pool freestyle.
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Davis Tarwater and Claire Donahue on the current team are Pilot alumni.

Tarwater is at SwimMac now.
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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125mph wrote:
If you use fins, a wetsuit and snorkels, could you beat phelps in a 200M freestyle race?

No. In high school I could swim 53 or maybe a touch below for 100 scy. We had a kid on our team that swam the 200 scy free in about 1:42 or so. He went on to swim at the local DivIII college and his 200 free record is still there at 1:42 something.

I remember one time putting on fins and trying to swim with him. I barely was able to keep up/hang with him for just over 50 yds for a 100 free. I'm not sure how hard he was trying, but I was going all out.

I think the snorkel and wetsuit would make it harder though, personally....


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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
As luck would have it, I went 25.65 LCM last month. =)

I went 25.63 3 years ago with a decent but not ton of training. Pretty sure I could do it again in a couple of weeks.

While GH Sr. record speaks for itself, I don't think he could still go under 26 in a 50. Maybe I am wrong.
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [Goosedog] [ In reply to ]
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Goosedog wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Davis Tarwater and Claire Donahue on the current team are Pilot alumni.


Tarwater is at SwimMac now.

Right, that's why I said they are alumni, i.e., swam for Pilot growing up and through high school.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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ericmulk wrote:
Goosedog wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Davis Tarwater and Claire Donahue on the current team are Pilot alumni.


Tarwater is at SwimMac now.


Right, that's why I said they are alumni, i.e., swam for Pilot growing up and through high school.

Sorry, wasn't trying to be argumentative. I think I just misread your post.
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [Goosedog] [ In reply to ]
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Goosedog wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Goosedog wrote:
ericmulk wrote:
Davis Tarwater and Claire Donahue on the current team are Pilot alumni.


Tarwater is at SwimMac now.


Right, that's why I said they are alumni, i.e., swam for Pilot growing up and through high school.


Sorry, wasn't trying to be argumentative. I think I just misread your post.

No problem, it's a little confusing since Davis grew up swimming here for Pilot but now he's at MAC, which what ZackC. was talking about. He came by the club I swim at a couple of years ago in the summer, but he didn't get in the water; guess he was just hanging out with his old friends. We have a 6-lane, 25m outdoor pool so in summer there are lots of people around the pool who never actually swim:)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
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realAlbertan wrote:
Most of ST would have trouble beating me with all that shit ley alone Phelps.

LOL, but true.

Best bet is fins + the old, now outlawed, suits.

For what it's worth, I did an all-out 50scm with fins, from a push at the end of my last swim workout and was only a 26 low, and I don't think I could keep that pace up for another 150m.

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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [realAlbertan] [ In reply to ]
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realAlbertan wrote:
Most of ST would have trouble beating me with all that shit ley alone Phelps.

I think you overestimate the swimming talents of most of ST ;)

I'm sure I would have trouble beating you with all that shit and I would guess most of ST would have trouble beating my best 200 time (~2:10 scy). The real question is how far down does the stack go? Could someone who couldn't beat me with fins still beat most of ST w/ fins?
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Re: Could you beat phelps, 200M free [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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only in my dream
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