It looks like your TR screenshot is displaying KICKR power rather than your PM... just looks too smooth to me. Is that right??

Either way... it doesn't matter as long as your TP graph is reporting the Garmin data.

TR tells me its showing what the Kickr reports. What is not clear is whether (a) the Kickr is relaying Vector data to TR, or (b) the Kickr is reporting data from its internal sensor. I believe it's the former because I've told the Kickr to use the Vector power data, and also because my Kickr has historically read about 9% higher than the Vector. I'll need to do a regression test with the Vector unlinked to be sure.

it should not be a big deal for perfpro to be controlling the kickr without the firmware update,
the PerfPro software logic to do the feedback control would be very similar to what the kickr people are trying to use as a plaster.


On another note, I installed my replacement belt today, for some reason I am unable to get spindowns longer than 15sec,
loosening the belt any further results in slippage even though I know it is in the ballpark tightness of the original belt.

I retensioning as per Krispy and got to within 4-5watts but am afraid to tighten anymore for fear of busting another belt.
I guess I will have to up the percentage instead and hope that wahoo gets the android app working.

Mine looks smooth as well as recorded in TrainerRoad, but it is being controlled by the power meter. I have recorded weeks of rides both on the Garmin and in TrainerRoad. I have compared using WKO's Multi File Range Analysis. Here is an image shot of one interval. The data within TR is smoothed compared to the raw variability of the Quarq / Garmin Edge data. The overall metrics are just about right on the money at least in my case. I know others are having issues getting the Wahoo / Firmware to work.


The red line is the smoothed TR data and yellow is Quarq's raw data recorded in the Edge at 1s recording rate.

If you have any questions on any of this please let me know. I'll get the website updated to help explain/promote the ability to control trainers fairly soon.

To help clarify, you DO NOT need any special updates to have your PM control your trainer. The reason I did not go with Wahoo's firmware option is because I wanted to give other trainer type owners the ability to get the same control. So you can have a PowerTap control a CompuTrainer / PowerBeam or whatever your setup is. One of my old CTs is about 20w off, always has been, and PerfPRO dials it in with my PT nicely.

Feel free to ping me through my support page or here is just fine as well.

Thanks,
Drew.
http://perfprostudio.com

Drew, even though I am not using your program (yet) I really appreciate you being proactive in providing a solution. Thanks for being open and helping us get to a place where we can get focused on the most important aspect, which IMO is to minimize tinkering with gear and get busy going forward with progressive training.

I second that!

I 3rd it!!

I'd guess it's your (A). If I was coding the solution for this, I'd do something like:
-Using the last 5-10 seconds of nonzero data from kickr and PM, build an estimate for the kickr's current percentage error
-Set erg mode to <requested erg mode>*errorPercentage so that the resistance goes to what you actually requested.
-Report <kickr sensed power reading> / errorPercentage via ANT+ to anyone listening.

This way the kickr doesn't have to deal with reporting itself as a different _kind_ of powermeter (the ANT+ power spec has 3-4 variants. The kickr likely doesn't want to show up as a crank-mounted PM).

---

STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

Totally new to Perf Pro.... using the trial so far.

WOW!.... Tons of features. I have a lot to learn.

Questions... Does PP report KICKR watts or external PM watts in the rider display assuming I am using my SRM to control the KICKR?

Also... Is there a way to get the graph data into the workout layout? or do I need to use the graph separately next to the workout profile?

The power meter's watts are displayed when it's controlling the trainer. You can setup your custom display though to show both. Same with the interactive graph, you can show both so you get a good visual comparison.

The graph and the workout layout are always separate. This is to create as much flexibility as possible, especially for large studios that have a lot of rider displays up on the board. If you're doing an ERG/FTP% workout the load is displayed on the graph by default and this is pretty much is your workout.

Drew.
http://perfprostudio.com

Are you guys planning to have a Mac OS or iOS version soon? If not, how well does PP run in a virtual machine (e.g. VM Ware Fusion)?

Thanks!

I'm using VMWARE Fusion...no issues. Only one workout though :)

I haven't had issues with drift after calibrating with the belt tension, but if you do, just tighten the adjustment screw a tiny bit to bring your Kickr's wattage down. You don't need to go through the whole initial procedure to make fine-tuning adjustments. Conversely, if your Kickr was reading too high, you could loosen the adjustment screw. Just do a little at a time until it's spot-on.

Another nice touch... you can manually enter the slope of your SRM into PP.

Just found out that PerfPro did it via software and is not using the Wahoo beta. We've just submitted a bug fix release to the app store. Our next iOS release (pending any critical bugs) will have this feature in it. Desktop will take a bit longer, but I think we can add it in there too.

The entire office uses Kickrs and PMs and this is a feature we've all wanted for a while. We thought we'd just wait for Wahoo to do it but it looks like doing it in software works well too.

Thanks for starting this thread and being so active guys. Talking about stuff like this really brings it to the company's attention and pushes us to be better :).

---

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast

Donzo - on the custom rider display you can select the kickr watts to be viewed as well as a power adjustment factor (how much off the kickr watts are from your power meter ) . You can also select the kickr watts to be viewed on the line graph. But I have stopped looking at the kickr watts data since it just pisses me off every time. Yes you can manually input your SRM slope as well as synch the calibration. Your reported SRM calibration will show up in the upper right hand corner of the custom rider display.
If you use a PMC and want to import old files, I had to first import old files from WKO into Golden Cheetah and then export them from GC in .txt format and then import them into PP. Worked out pretty well except if you had manual input files (non Garmin) in WKO. These don't export. But PP does have an option to input manual workout data so you can keep your PMC up to date (and will match your TP info)
Yes the PP interface is a bit clunky but it works. It has the workout creator of TR (but better), the analysis of WKO+, and data record keeping of TR, all in one package.
Have you tried the Netflix button? Pretty cool if you have Netflix.

I love gadgets....and learning new stuff. So far... VERY IMPRESSED with PP.

One other question... is there a separate workout creator that I can use away from my laptop and then import into PP?

I used to make workouts in TR on my desktop in workout creator. and then they would be ready to use when I opened up TR on my laptop or Iphone.

44 minute ride on PP today... I lowered my FTP from 250 to 230... after the Wahoo Fiasco :) Just playing around with it tonight. Wasn't really going to ride, but wanted to experiment with PP.



Now... on the graph. The KICKR (Trainer watts) were in dark pink, and the actual SRM watts were in light blue. Seems they were matching pretty closely. My trainer calibration factor was anywhere from 1.02 to 1.06. I assume that indicates that the KICKR was reading 2-6% higher than the SRM.

What kind of numbers were you seeing?

Great news! Thank you.

Sucks that desktop pc users like me have to suffer longer.

Donzo - I saw the same kind of factors but mine would drift from .90 (lower than SRM) to 1.08 (higher than SRM) over the course of a workout. And those are %'s so if I was doing 275 SRM watts at the end the Kickr was like 20-25 watts higher. However now it is at .80 almost all the time (who knows whats going on)
PP has a workout importer but I have not played with it. You can load PP on two machines so maybe one your desktop to create workout files. Then save them to the cloud, or thumb drive or email them to yourself and then import them on your laptop.

Thanks Nate and we appreciate everyone that has collaborated on this thread to get us all to a place of using this trainer as best possible. I looked around the web and we are about the only ones talking about it that I can find. My blog post on this subject is getting a lot of hits since February so I know there are far more Kickr users probably trying to figure it out as well.

_______________
On a different note:
I suppose what could be the most upsetting news is for those who do not own a power meter or own a hub based power meter. Not sure what will help them. I know in the first days of discussion there was ideas of putting in an offset number. That was my first step was to increase my FTP within TrainerRoad and it got me closer to a more correct interval intensity, but it was still not as good as the power meter control option. Plus I had to record my power meter to the Garmin Edge and load that data into WKO because the data recorded to TR would have overinflated my data history and skewed the PMC.

I am guessing that a lot of people that purchased the Kickr are really not that into training and keeping track of training data where wattage as a metric is concerned. Just a guess......

What you don't know can't hurt you I guess...