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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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dcrainmaker wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Just wondering, when was the last time you have seem folks complaining about CT's drifting? I cannot remember one.

I even have to consider buying a power meter to use with a 1K trainer is, well, just amazing.

I could care less if my trainer and power meters "match". What I care about is my trainer does not drift during a session, or different sessions. Same comment for a power meter. I just want it to stay the same
so I can compare numbers week in and week out.

When I get on my trainer and spin at 193 watts, I could care less if it really is 193 watts, but I want it 193 watts during the entire ride, and every ride I do on it when it says 193 watts. Does the Kickr do this
for everyone who purchased today?

I just feel based on your reviews you for some reason seem to be letting the Kickr issues off the hook, which is not what I would expect from you.

.


Funny, CompuTrainer's are well known to drift during the first 15-20 minutes. Something I've shown time and time again in power meter tests, with either of the two CT's I've owned that Racermate has validated as perfectly fine.

But, that's besides the point.

My point is, I have no doubt that some people here have a problem with drift or just flat out inaccuracies (i.e. 50w). I'm not saying there aren't some. But there are also post power meters between PM's on the KICKR that don't have those issues. Which is to say that, like all posts about people having a technical problem - they tend only to attract like-people having the same problem. Not people not having the problem (though there actually have been people in this post noting otherwise).

But 7w, or even 10w, on 250-300? You're beyond the combined accuracy spec of the platforms.

I do believe it is well know the CT has to be warmed up first? Or are you saying CT says you never have to warm them up?
Do they drift after this 15-20 minutes of warmup?

As I have posted before. Everything has issues. It just gets old to have some beat one one product for their personal reasons, but then seem to be willing to
ignore issues with others. Just me I guess.

I do hope folks find out what is going on. I know if the CT was having issues, Roger, as he has done in the past, would be posting here to solve any issues.

Now if they could only get their new sw working with the Velotron. :(

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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Ray: have you had any contact with Wahoo regarding the issues identified in this thread, even just pointing them to it?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Which is to say that, like all posts about people having a technical problem - they tend only to attract like-people having the same problem. Not people not having the problem (though there actually have been people in this post noting otherwise).

Well, the only people that _can_ notice and report the problem in this thread are those that:
1) Have a Kickr (lets say thousands)
2) Have a kickr with a big discrepancy (30% of above? Only wahoo knows, probably)
3) Also have a quarq or SRM on their trainer bike (30% of above?)
4) Notice the discrepancy at all (30% of above?)
5) Have the ability, dual ANT+ sticks, and interest in recording both of them simultaneously (30% of above?)
6) Are members on ST (30% of above?)

That's going to be a pretty small set of users by the end of that list (if you say 30% at each reduction and 5,000 kickr owners, then you're talking about 9 people), but the set of people _affected_ by the problem will be thousands of people. So it may seem like a small problem only affecting the 10 or so people complaining in this thread, but it might actually be affecting many others without them knowing.

STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016
Last edited by: AHare: Feb 9, 15 10:17
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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I think that the "spindown at the right time during a workout and leave it" solution is good for the apparent issues they're having with drift, but that 35-40 watt high reading thing is something else altogether I think.

I know I'm repeating myself but I think that moving it from two different locations or perhaps a wildly fluctuating climate (my garage, winter) may have contributed to that super high wattage reading. I accidentally sorted that out I thing by getting more miles in on the KICKR, spinning down repeatedly, and getting the climate situation sorted (heater, dehumidifier).

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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
I do believe it is well know the CT has to be warmed up first? Or are you saying CT says you never have to warm them up?
Do they drift after this 15-20 minutes of warmup?

As I have posted before. Everything has issues. It just gets old to have some beat one one product for their personal reasons, but then seem to be willing to
ignore issues with others. Just me I guess.


Well, your original quote was that the 193w would be identical at the start and end. My point is that it wouldn't on the CT. One can call it warm-up or drift. but as far as I'm concrned if we're talking that first 15-20 mins it's the same thing. I'm not sure why on a CT it's OK to be "warm-up", and on a KICKR it's now magically 'drift'. Obviously, if you're talking 45-60 minutes after that period and the temperature hasn't changed, then yeah, there's a problem.


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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
Last edited by: dcrainmaker: Feb 9, 15 10:17
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [geetee] [ In reply to ]
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geetee wrote:
Ray: have you had any contact with Wahoo regarding the issues identified in this thread, even just pointing them to it?

Chip, the owner/founder of Wahoo (and creator of KICKR) posted on this thread earlier on. About 10 or so pages ago.


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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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dcrainmaker wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
I do believe it is well know the CT has to be warmed up first? Or are you saying CT says you never have to warm them up?
Do they drift after this 15-20 minutes of warmup?

As I have posted before. Everything has issues. It just gets old to have some beat one one product for their personal reasons, but then seem to be willing to
ignore issues with others. Just me I guess.


Well, your original quote was that the 193w would be identical at the start and end. My point is that it wouldn't on the CT. One can call it warm-up or drift. but as far as I'm concrned if we're talking that first 15-20 mins it's the same thing. I'm not sure why on a CT it's OK to be "warm-up", and on a KICKR it's now magically 'drift'. Obviously, if you're talking 45-60 minutes after that period and the temperature hasn't changed, then yeah, there's a problem.

This is why I use a velotron. No warm up for me, but then these are not cheap.

No where did I saw warm up was okay on one and not the other. From what I am reading here, I am not hearing that after a warmup on the Kickr, everything is fine. Am I reading wrong?

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [PSJoyce] [ In reply to ]
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is there a pattern to when your SRM reads high and when it reads low?

I've found that my KICKR reads low (SRM high) at the start of workouts and KICKR reads high (SRM low) at the end of workouts or when KICKR temps are higher. Usually about +/- 5 watts like you.

PSJoyce wrote:
I purchased my Kickr in October, 2013 -- it has always been very close to my calibrated and zeroed SRM -- the SRM is usually a few watts above or below the Kickr. I've got weeks of time on the Kickr and it has always been perfect. I do have firmware 26 but have gone back to having the Kickr control itself -- the time response seems much better.

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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't noticed a pattern, even over long rides. I usually do a spin down on the Kickr 15 or so minutes in -- or if I need an extra rest period
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
dcrainmaker wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
I do believe it is well know the CT has to be warmed up first? Or are you saying CT says you never have to warm them up?
Do they drift after this 15-20 minutes of warmup?

As I have posted before. Everything has issues. It just gets old to have some beat one one product for their personal reasons, but then seem to be willing to
ignore issues with others. Just me I guess.


Well, your original quote was that the 193w would be identical at the start and end. My point is that it wouldn't on the CT. One can call it warm-up or drift. but as far as I'm concrned if we're talking that first 15-20 mins it's the same thing. I'm not sure why on a CT it's OK to be "warm-up", and on a KICKR it's now magically 'drift'. Obviously, if you're talking 45-60 minutes after that period and the temperature hasn't changed, then yeah, there's a problem.


This is why I use a velotron. No warm up for me, but then these are not cheap.

No where did I saw warm up was okay on one and not the other. From what I am reading here, I am not hearing that after a warmup on the Kickr, everything is fine. Am I reading wrong?

.


Why do you continue to post on this thread?

We know all about your CT and Velotron... from what I have read you have nothing but negative thoughts to contribute.

About 80% of your posts are bashing the KICKR and promoting your Velotron.
Last edited by: Donzo98: Feb 9, 15 10:55
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
dcrainmaker wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
I do believe it is well know the CT has to be warmed up first? Or are you saying CT says you never have to warm them up?
Do they drift after this 15-20 minutes of warmup?

As I have posted before. Everything has issues. It just gets old to have some beat one one product for their personal reasons, but then seem to be willing to
ignore issues with others. Just me I guess.


Well, your original quote was that the 193w would be identical at the start and end. My point is that it wouldn't on the CT. One can call it warm-up or drift. but as far as I'm concrned if we're talking that first 15-20 mins it's the same thing. I'm not sure why on a CT it's OK to be "warm-up", and on a KICKR it's now magically 'drift'. Obviously, if you're talking 45-60 minutes after that period and the temperature hasn't changed, then yeah, there's a problem.


This is why I use a velotron. No warm up for me, but then these are not cheap.

No where did I saw warm up was okay on one and not the other. From what I am reading here, I am not hearing that after a warmup on the Kickr, everything is fine. Am I reading wrong?

.


Why do you continue to post on this thread?

We know all about your CT and Velotron... from what I have read you have nothing but negative thoughts to contribute.

About 80% of your posts are bashing the KICKR and promoting your Velotron.

Show me where I am bashing the KickR?

And no where am I promoting Velotron, just what I use.

I just have asked why some products seem to get a pass with some.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a long way from being convinced that this is simply about the inevitable deviation between power meters. The vast majority of people complaining about the accuracy of the Kickr's power measurement believe the Kickr reads high compared to their other PM.

If this were purely about random variations, you'd expect there to be as many people seeing it measure high as measure low.

My experience (and accepting this is only one datapoint) is that the Kickr reads ~20% lower than my Vectors, which in turn read about ~5% higher than my Powertap did. That's a huge difference, and well outside additive effects of two sensors with +/-2% variation each.

That about what you'd expect for a pedal vs wheel powermeter, given the inevitable drivetrain loss. Performing the Kickr spin-down test after 30 mins of warm up does not resolve the problem.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [marting] [ In reply to ]
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marting wrote:
I'm a long way from being convinced that this is simply about the inevitable deviation between power meters. The vast majority of people complaining about the accuracy of the Kickr's power measurement believe the Kickr reads high compared to their other PM.

If this were purely about random variations, you'd expect there to be as many people seeing it measure high as measure low.

All due respect to DCRainMaker (Ray) for chiming in, he has seen more power meters than probably all of us combined and while the Kickr vs. Powertap vs. SRM etc. debate on accuracy is valid, I tend to agree with the above comment. This is a long way away from being a deviation issue (and DCRM even acknowledged that to some extent). My Kickr was always off from my P2M and kept drifting in longer/harder workouts. P2M have their own issues due to the fact you can't adjust their slope, they come pre-calibrated etc, so I chalked it up to that and adjusted my TR settings accordingly. Now I have a Quarq and seeing the same behavior or worse. So the best solution has been to run TR on my iPad (with a very handy stand pointed out by DCRM) and keep adjusting the intensity level during the workout so the Quarq numbers on my Garmin hit my targets.

To Felt's point a page back, he's probably right that this is probably a small percentage of Kickr gearhead buyers that have discovered this, Wahoo has no interest in publicizing this on their website/FB/blog in fear of scaring off the potential buyers that have no real understanding of training with power or just looking for something better than their current fluid/magnetic trainer.

In the end we all want something that is reliable enough not to have to use a bike with a power meter if we choose. Fix the drifting and enable the temperature compensation in the firmware, recommend proper belt tension or replacement, redesigned speed sensor / circuitry? May have to look at going back to the E-Motion rollers now that the wireless option exists.....

--------------------------------------------------
Non-Swimming Duathlete
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [rbrnut] [ In reply to ]
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rbrnut wrote:
marting wrote:
I'm a long way from being convinced that this is simply about the inevitable deviation between power meters. The vast majority of people complaining about the accuracy of the Kickr's power measurement believe the Kickr reads high compared to their other PM.

If this were purely about random variations, you'd expect there to be as many people seeing it measure high as measure low.


All due respect to DCRainMaker (Ray) for chiming in, he has seen more power meters than probably all of us combined and while the Kickr vs. Powertap vs. SRM etc. debate on accuracy is valid, I tend to agree with the above comment. This is a long way away from being a deviation issue (and DCRM even acknowledged that to some extent). My Kickr was always off from my P2M and kept drifting in longer/harder workouts. P2M have their own issues due to the fact you can't adjust their slope, they come pre-calibrated etc, so I chalked it up to that and adjusted my TR settings accordingly. Now I have a Quarq and seeing the same behavior or worse. So the best solution has been to run TR on my iPad (with a very handy stand pointed out by DCRM) and keep adjusting the intensity level during the workout so the Quarq numbers on my Garmin hit my targets.

To Felt's point a page back, he's probably right that this is probably a small percentage of Kickr gearhead buyers that have discovered this, Wahoo has no interest in publicizing this on their website/FB/blog in fear of scaring off the potential buyers that have no real understanding of training with power or just looking for something better than their current fluid/magnetic trainer.

In the end we all want something that is reliable enough not to have to use a bike with a power meter if we choose. Fix the drifting and enable the temperature compensation in the firmware, recommend proper belt tension or replacement, redesigned speed sensor / circuitry? May have to look at going back to the E-Motion rollers now that the wireless option exists.....

I was a little sad to find out mine was off too...

I had really convinced myself that my FTP was that high :)

No doubt though... it is an issue. Ray was just offering his thoughts I guess, but the KICKR is reading high, and in some instances very high.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [rbrnut] [ In reply to ]
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rbrnut wrote:
Now I have a Quarq and seeing the same behavior or worse. So the best solution has been to run TR on my iPad (with a very handy stand pointed out by DCRM) and keep adjusting the intensity level during the workout so the Quarq numbers on my Garmin hit my targets.


I do virtually the same thing, though in my case it's TrainerRoad on a Mac to control the Kickr, and Garmin Vectors talking to Garmin Edge to log the workout, with the TR intensity wound up to ~120% of what's programmed.

rbrnut wrote:
To Felt's point a page back, he's probably right that this is probably a small percentage of Kickr gearhead buyers that have discovered this, Wahoo has no interest in publicizing this on their website/FB/blog in fear of scaring off the potential buyers that have no real understanding of training with power or just looking for something better than their current fluid/magnetic trainer.


Many companies try to hide behind the feeling that an isolated, angry consumer feels they have no influence and so they are ignored. But one of the great things about FB & Twitter is that there's nowhere to hide. If a group of disgruntled users keeps posting on their FB page & Twitter account, it's available for everyone to see... FWIW, I did Tweet about using the Vectors for power control and they responded in minutes...
Last edited by: marting: Feb 10, 15 0:50
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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The difference is the Kickr is not supposed to have to need a warmup period and then a roll-down calibration after 10 to 15 minutes. Everyone knows that if you ride a Computrainer, you ride it for 10 to 15 minutes to warm the tire up, do the calibration and then start your workout. The beauty of the Kickr was that you could just start riding and not have to worry about your rear wheel warming up or any of that.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [nightfend] [ In reply to ]
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nightfend wrote:
The difference is the Kickr is not supposed to have to need a warmup period and then a roll-down calibration after 10 to 15 minutes. Everyone knows that if you ride a Computrainer, you ride it for 10 to 15 minutes to warm the tire up, do the calibration and then start your workout. The beauty of the Kickr was that you could just start riding and not have to worry about your rear wheel warming up or any of that.


Oh yeah... I forgpt about that :)

That's one of the things they were touting about the KICKR when it was first announced.

So much for that...
Last edited by: Donzo98: Feb 9, 15 18:42
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I find it really interesting that a guy who posts endlessly about disc brakes and Di2, for their cool factor, is opposed to people who are interested in new trainer technology. CT hasn't updated anything substantial since the n64 model, most improvements have come from 3rd party software companies.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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10kman wrote:
ETA on the Wahooligan app
Today, Wahoo support replied "very soon." A month ago WahooMurray wrote (elsewhere) "soon."

Wahoo should have used TestFlight to distribute the beta app legitimately to targeted users.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [uucee] [ In reply to ]
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I'm officially back on the PowerTap with Kurt Kinetic trainer.

RMA should hit my inbox today to return the Kickr. Unless I see a very compelling post from Wahoo to sway my decision, this thing is going back and I'm through with them and I'm in the market for something else or I'll just stay on the PT with KK and deal with it, which isn't the worst thing in the world by any means.

I was juggling some workouts around this week and while Monday is usually a recovery day, I moved a workout to that day due to scheduling conflicts. Wish I had kept it a rest day, the Kickr was so frustrating with the lack of consistency I was focused more on that rather than trying to ride. Gave up, got off the bike after 25 minutes (10 into a rep), got the old wheel out of the closet, wiped the tire down with some rubbing alcohol, mounted it onto the bike, got the trusty KK out, threw the bike in it, went through my normal tire inflation/resistance unit setup, and went about my ride.

You know what happened? The exact same thing that always happens when I use that setup, I suffer, the numbers jive with prior workouts, and it works how it should. The only thing that is rough is seeing the values fluctuate since I'm not as smooth as I'd like to think I am, but all in all, I end up with my average for the rep being what it should be every time.

Probably down to 12 hours and counting before I can get it to UPS to ship back, but I don't have my hopes up for a company response.

10k
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [10kman] [ In reply to ]
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10kman wrote:
I'm officially back on the PowerTap with Kurt Kinetic trainer.

10k

I don't blame you since the trainer does not work like you had hoped. IMO - above all things gadget and bike bling the one thing that matters to me is training and that part I want to be what the plan prescribed. The rest of that equation comes down to me hitting the training targets and training consistently each week. Fiddling around with equipment has a time suck factor and I get impatient with it and so does my wife when I am late getting to the dinner table. When it comes down to training there are a lot of good trainers out there and the KK in its simplicity is a solid piece of equipment. I still have my KK and don't intend on selling it even though I plan on keeping the Kickr and also using the eMotion rollers has been very solid for me using a PowerTap G3.

On a different note the beta does seem to be a very good option and so far it continues to work well for me. Since the Quarq ELSA is controlling the TrainerRoad program and the Kickr I am no longer spending time warming up the equipment. The power meter on the trainer bike is in a room that the temperature and humidity at this time is stable. I simply wake up the meter, zero the offset and start the workout. I figure even if the Kickr may have potential to change as it warms up it doesn't matter because the Quarq is controlling the training session and the ERG will change based on the output from the meter.

I am still recording all training sessions from the Quarq to Edge and check at the end of the workout on the overall metrics displayed on the Edge to the TrainerRoad metrics. So far the beta is working as good as I need. The variability of the Quarq's raw power seems to be on the upper side of what is displayed on TrainerRoad ERG by a few watts, but I feel confident that I am hitting the training targets and based on perceived effort for a certain duration everything seems correct with the beta power meter control. So far this beta has worked well with the power meter that I am using. I am not sure if it makes a difference compared to what others are experiencing, but the trainer bike, power meter and trainer all remain in the same room and have not been moved.

From last night's active recovery session (Quarq to Edge and Quarq to TrainerRoad)


From last month an interval segment using WKO's MRFA

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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a comparison from my workout this morning, courtesy of a GoldenCheetah screenshot.

The blue line is what the Kickr reports to TrainerRoad. The purple line is what the Vectors report to my Garmin Edge.

The target power for the work intervals was 252W. I know from prior experience that I need to increase the power via TrainerRoad by cranking the up a bit to ~120%. This was a bit too much to begin with, so I brought it down to 115%, which got me to 257W as reported by the Vectors. Close enough. At the end of this interval, the Vectors reported 257W, the Kickr 277W. That's 8% too high.

By the last interval, the Kickr still thought it was creating 277W of resistance, but the Vectors reported 248W. That's now a difference of 12%. This is an example of the gradual decrease in actual resistance as the trainer continues to warm up.

So, by a process of successive estimation and closing the control loop with my brain, I've managed to persuade the Kickr to give me the workout I want despite the Kickr's inaccuracies. But had I simply told the Kickr "give me 252W", I'd have ended up somewhere around 220W (ie 15% less), which is a whole different workout entirely.

For time triallists and triathletes, where pacing is critically important, it's vital to be able to believe the numbers the Kickr is giving out, and to be able to correlate them reliably with the power meter used on the road. But on this setup, if I were to believe the Kickr's numbers, I'd be setting off 15% too hard, with a guaranteed blow up later in the race as a result.

When/if the promised closed loop control using an external power meter arrives, the inconsistency should be resolved. But for those who don't have an on-bike power meter, or don't use it on the trainer, or aren't able to do this kind of analysis, well Wahoo has just hosed their racing season.


Last edited by: marting: Feb 10, 15 6:10
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [agreif] [ In reply to ]
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agreif wrote:
B) Recently rode on a computrainer and that trainer had an offset the opposite direction of the Kickr, ie it said I was putting out 200W, when it was actually 230 on my Quarq....that will kill a workout quickly

Andrew

And you think this is a problem? The Quarq reads power at the spider, the CT reads it at the wheel. It will always read lower power than a Quarq, unless one or both of them is broken. This is why you do your FTP test on the device you will be training on. You will have as many different FTPs as you have power meters.

At the end of the day consistency between workout to workout, and within workout is what is important. I've done tons and tons of 2x20s and 2x30s on a CT and Velotron and never experienced any "drift". They are both consistent from workout to workout. Yes my Quarq reads higher, but if that really bothered me I would just remove the sticker on the back of the CT and there is a screw there where you can adjust the calibration.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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dcrainmaker wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
I do believe it is well know the CT has to be warmed up first? Or are you saying CT says you never have to warm them up?
Do they drift after this 15-20 minutes of warmup?

As I have posted before. Everything has issues. It just gets old to have some beat one one product for their personal reasons, but then seem to be willing to
ignore issues with others. Just me I guess.


Well, your original quote was that the 193w would be identical at the start and end. My point is that it wouldn't on the CT. One can call it warm-up or drift. but as far as I'm concrned if we're talking that first 15-20 mins it's the same thing. I'm not sure why on a CT it's OK to be "warm-up", and on a KICKR it's now magically 'drift'. Obviously, if you're talking 45-60 minutes after that period and the temperature hasn't changed, then yeah, there's a problem.


First of all, it's only the first 12 minutes. I've never had any significant drift (more than a difference of 5) after I calibrated any of my CTs at 12 minutes. Secondly, the kicker doesn't use a tire contact. Of course a tire will warm up and change the calibration. The kicker without a tire should be comparable to a Velotron. Now on my Velotron, I get 0 drift from minute 1 to however long I'm on my workout. So I would turn this question back at you and ask, why should the kicker have any drift at all EVER, when it doesn't use a tire based contact point? The Velotron doesn't.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [mcmetal] [ In reply to ]
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mcmetal wrote:
First of all, it's only the first 12 minutes. I've never had any significant drift (more than a difference of 5) after I calibrated any of my CTs at 12 minutes. Secondly, the kicker doesn't use a tire contact. Of course a tire will warm up and change the calibration. The kicker without a tire should be comparable to a Velotron. Now on my Velotron, I get 0 drift from minute 1 to however long I'm on my workout. So I would turn this question back at you and ask, why should the kicker have any drift at all EVER, when it doesn't use a tire based contact point? The Velotron doesn't.

It's not the first 12 minutes (on CT). I used to think I'd be good after about 10-15, but I've seen/have pretty of files where it's taking more like 15-20 minutes to stabilize fully.

As for the KICKR and warm-up, I don't know - that's a question for Wahoo. I've said since my original review I always calibrate about 10-20 mins in on it.


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My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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